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Yamaha PRO Headphones. - Page 23

post #331 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

TH900s usually sell for $1700 to $2000... they have the "Fostex" U-shape sound similar to discontinued Denon D5000/D7000 (which you can find used from $400 to $800) and STILL people "prefer" the TH900s... They have VERY SIMILAR sound but still, some people just prefer TH900 tonality and more present mids and detailing and don't care about spending $1000 bucks extra... If YOU cannot hear the differences, then stick with the D5000/7000. Some people prefer the slight sound and build improvements and pay the money. Someone like you who looks for a similar sound signature WITHOUT going overboard would just stick with the Denons...

 

It's all in the way you perceive music... maybe WE (the people that liked how the Pro 500s sounded) just like these more than the current competition and we BELIEVE THAT THE PRICE IS GOOD AT $400 over the others!

I understand your point. If you like the sound signature, you don't mind spending more money. However, from what I've read, there are people who choose other headphones over the Pro 500 not because they could not distinguish the differences in sonic quality, but because they thought that the differences that Yamaha made to the sound signature was not an improvement over the headphones they preferred (in their opinion). I am not saying that everyone thought this way, but some people did. [Example: what peck1234 said below, although I actually haven't seen a comparison between the Pro 500 w/ the M50 before & I am actually surprised by that result]. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peck1234 View Post

Well I just returned my pair, had them for about a week.  The clarity and separation was outstanding but I kept finding my self rasing the volume to hear the vocals and all I kept hearing was more bass and treble which lead me to my refund. 

 

My M50's maintain more foward mids than the pro 500s.  

 

I actually do not mind spending more money for an upgrade in sound quality. However, whether the Yamaha sound signature is an definite improvement over other headphones can be debated, so it appears to me that may be more of a subjective opinion. I am really glad to hear that some of you guys found that the Pro 500 sound signature meets all your requirements! That is the point of this hobby: to find a pair of headphones that you really love!! :)

 

I personally really loved the $300 V-Moda M100's sound signature. However, I know that it's sound signature is not suitable for everyone and also that the $230 Beyer DT770 80 ohm Pro (which I haven't had a chance to demo) offers a very similar sound signature that some people say is better compared to the M100. Is the M100 overpriced? Probably a bit. But I guess I would still recommend it to people searching for headphones with high-quality bass.

 

I guess I was just initially shocked by the high sticker price for a pair of colored lifestyle headphones, and I just wanted to hear why people thought the Pro 500 were worth the extra money. The responses that many of you have provided was definitely very interesting to hear. I hope you all realize that I am not trying to step on anyone's toes and I am sorry if I offended anyone during this discussion. I do still hold the opinion that the Pro 500 are currently overpriced, but I understand/respect the fact that some you guys disagree.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

If you have not heard either of them, you know nothing about them and therefore have no opinion.

 

 

lol... It's not like I never heard a pair of headphones. I actually have personally auditioned almost every set of closed portable headphones currently in the $300 price range (M100, LP/LP2, MDR-1R, Momentum, AKG-550, UE 6000, Beats Studio/Pro, Bose Quiet Comfort 15) for at least a few days to weeks each. I think the only other respectable headphones I am missing are the Ultrasone Pro 900 & Mad Dogs, which are hard to find in my area. If you guys actually have any other suggestions of ~$300 portable closed headphones to try that I missed, I actually would love to know about them. The Pro 400/500 are not currently in any stores near me.

 

So when I say I feel like I can get a sense of how they sound based on reading comparison reviews, it's because I've heard most of the headphones that they get compared to. Honestly, I probably spent waayyy to much time researching and listening to portable, closed headphones in this price range. I am actually considering jumping to a next-tier ($400-600) open headphones such as the HE-400, Q701, and Sennheiser HD650 since I feel like I've already heard the max-performance for closed portable headphones.


Edited by money4me247 - 3/8/13 at 10:01pm
post #332 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

I actually do not mind spending more money for an upgrade in sound quality. However, whether the Yamaha sound signature is an definite improvement over other headphones can be debated, so it appears to me that may be more of a subjective opinion.

 

I personally really loved the $300 V-Moda M100's sound signature. However, I know that it's sound signature is not suitable for everyone and also that the $230 Beyer DT770 80 ohm Pro (which I haven't had a chance to demo) offers a very similar sound signature that some people say is better compared to the M100. Is the M100 overpriced? Probably a bit. But I guess I would still recommend it to people searching for headphones with high-quality bass.

 

The thing is that the "DEFINITIVE IMPROVEMENT" perception from one headphone to the other will ALWAYS BE DEBATED! So... in this hobby there are no definitives... no end-game. Heck, you could probably stroll with a STAX set-up and not everyone will like it and say it is overpriced bla bla bla, etc. This is why everyone was suggesting that you first listen to them.

 

Heck, that example of M100s vs DT770 Pro80 (which I also had) never in a million years would I pick the Beyers over the V-Modas... maybe comfort is the only thing that those would edge the V-Modas on. So, IMO, the M100s are worth the $$$ based on sound quality, portability and PACKED CONTENTS!!! (this is why I mentioned you had to consider everything and why I told you before that you could just buy yourself $30 Panasonics -- which I also have -- to get a specific signature... It's all in the details and clarity...)

 

But no harm done, and no need to apologize (at least not to me! hehehe)

 

 

 

Oh, and my .02 cents on Pro 500s vs M50s... not even close! BUT I PREFER my $30 Panasonics over those Audio Technicas lol... so again YMMV..

 

(Other headphones you could try on the $300 range == Mad Dogs, Audio Technica A900X, Shure SRH940, Audio Technica W1000X, Sennheiser HD600, Soundmagic HP100 -- never heard this personally but the reviews I've read look good., etc.)

post #333 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

If you have not heard either of them, you know nothing about them and therefore have no opinion.

DING

 

Seriously, this needs to be posted on the Head Fi main web page :O

 

BUT that being said.. $400... :O my dt 990 pro 250s... have me thinking $400 is a bit to much for a closed can, well as far as bass head cans go I hate all closed ones e.e [unless I need isolation in which case I don't WANNA TALK TO U NO MOE]

 

Ehm, still though... how do these compare to lets say... Mr Speakers Mad Dog Modded t50rp? I don't consider them bass cans [at ALL] BUT the do have some KICK to em and they sound rather nice for Nu Jazz, which [I think] combines Techno n Classica Jazz...  not ot mention Mad dogs r  $300... 

post #334 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

DING

 

Seriously, this needs to be posted on the Head Fi main web page :O

 

BUT that being said.. $400... :O my dt 990 pro 250s... have me thinking $400 is a bit to much for a closed can, well as far as bass head cans go I hate all closed ones e.e [unless I need isolation in which case I don't WANNA TALK TO U NO MOE]

 

Ehm, still though... how do these compare to lets say... Mr Speakers Mad Dog Modded t50rp? I don't consider them bass cans [at ALL] BUT the do have some KICK to em and they sound rather nice for Nu Jazz, which [I think] combines Techno n Classica Jazz...  not ot mention Mad dogs r  $300... 

Gelocks review's: http://www.head-fi.org/products/yamaha-pro-500/reviews/8455

 

However, I would love to hear Gelock's opinion of Pro 500 vs Mad Dogs in a direct comparison as I have not had the chance to try either headphones.


Edited by money4me247 - 3/9/13 at 2:35am
post #335 of 495
Quote from the administrator.

" Please don't ever recommend products you've not owned or otherwise have extensive experience with. That is doing a great disservice to other members. Reading about a product is not the same as owning it."
post #336 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

Gelocks review's: http://www.head-fi.org/products/yamaha-pro-500/reviews/8455

 

However, I would love to hear Gelock's opinion of Pro 500 vs Mad Dogs in a direct comparison as I have not had the chance to try either headphones.

agreed, maybe he will shoot over here and tell us. I'm actually really enjoying the laid back feel to the mad dogs bass [espically after some SERIOUS eq... which it's still laid back even without eq since it's open ect...]

 

but my 990s have more bass, although it's not as smooth n chill as the Mad Dogs [which is a good thing an a bad thing depending on my mood] 

post #337 of 495

Consider my hat thrown in the ring...

 

I knew absolutely nothing about these headphone until this morning; and then only accidentally saw mention of them as they showed-up somewhere on an Amazon.com page after I'd searched for the Denon D600 and had accidentally clicked on the link.  I  didn't give them any consideration after seeing them, had not researched them at all, yet I left B&H owning them!  This happens to be completely counter to my normal 'modus operandi', as I am one to heavily research and painfully belabor over any and every purchase.

 

I went there to get a Fostex T50RP actually (and did too).  They weren't out to audition, but I did walk around their displays pluging-in multitudes of the headphone into my FiiO E17 driven by a Cowan D3 digitally over Coax S/PDIF.  I was most surprised to hear I liked the much maligned Denon D7100 (the D600 I've been considering wasn't out to compare but I'd heard them before, tho not with my new what I consider to be killer sounding portable rig).  And then just for kicks I plugged in to the Yamaha Pro 500 after a while.  I was expecting 'Beats Audio-like' sound (which I did audition too, for probably the shortest time of all; talk about veiled and muddy!).  I was really pleasantly surprised.  I got there less than an hour before close and didn't get around to listening to the Pro 500 until about 20 minutes before close, and I found myself rushing around comparing it to all the other cans within $200 either way.  And the D500 won!

 

My audition music was simply one song of a Disco Biscuits concert I attended, recorded and distributed live by the band off their board (in FLAC; quality of these recordings and mix downs are quite exceptional).  Since I happened to be there that night I can exactly compare the sound I head there in the center of the floor to the sound I hear when it's being re-produced by my portable rig and headphones I'm plugged in to (and it should go w/o saying the latter being the variable that most factors into 'the sound', and morso the colorations of it, my eardrums finally hear).

 

I'd thought my portable rig and Focal Spirit Ones did a great job re-producing what I experienced in person.  But I was shaking my head in amazement standing there in B&H at how I was taken back to the audience.  I just had to get them.  And now having listened to multitudes of Steely Dan (both live [Two Against Nature DVD ripped to FLAC] and remastered studio work ), and an incredible classical recording I have, I'm not 2nd guessing my impulse buy of the Pro500.  And I'll echo what I'd read regarding the headphone not sounding like it has the huge 'dip' seen in Sound and Vision's measurements.  Yes, they certainly have empaisized bass and treble, requiring less tone control boost so I'm happy with that, but there's definitely no 'suck-out' of an octave of the musical range; it's just not not there.

post #338 of 495
Great impressions m80!
post #339 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

Gelocks review's: http://www.head-fi.org/products/yamaha-pro-500/reviews/8455

 

However, I would love to hear Gelock's opinion of Pro 500 vs Mad Dogs in a direct comparison as I have not had the chance to try either headphones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

agreed, maybe he will shoot over here and tell us. I'm actually really enjoying the laid back feel to the mad dogs bass [espically after some SERIOUS eq... which it's still laid back even without eq since it's open ect...]

 

but my 990s have more bass, although it's not as smooth n chill as the Mad Dogs [which is a good thing an a bad thing depending on my mood] 

 

Hi guys.

Sorry I'm late responding to this, so let's get to it:

 

Sound Quality: Overall sound impressions, the Mad Dogs, as mentioned, are a bit laid-back but still sound as mid-centric as their "unmodded" counterpart (which I like). I thoroughly enjoy listen to Adele, Fiona Apple, Esperanza Spalding, etc. as I feel their voice, hear their whispers, etc. and feels extremely intimate. Guitars soar on tracks such as Ugly Colors - Today Felt Like a Funeral (Dan's voice sounds clear too), and the bass/sub-bass on reggaeton tracks such as JKing and Maximan - Ella me pide something is present and tasteful even though the impact is not as strong as on other more "bass heavy" headphones. The only thing I think "misses the mark" a bit are the highs as they aren't really "enhanced" in any way (which is probably why they sound "laidback") so they don't sound as "airy" as other headphones. Some people like this, others don't.

 

Yamaha Pros, take the above and add a bit more of ALMOST everything ;-). Definitely they don't feel laid back, they are more "in your face" in their attack and speed. I like my mids and the Yamaha's CAN provide a decent result but definitely lacks a bit on this department, especially lower mids. Is it the most recessed ever? Heck no. I definitely don't feel they are as V-shaped such as Beyer 770 Pro80... probably more U-shaped similarly to my old Denon D5000s so vocals don't feel as intimate (either male or female) but they are 'there'. Bass/sub-bass is definitely a highlight. These cans can slam! I really enjoyed tracks such as Calvin Harris - Feel so Close, Damian Marley - Welcome to Jamrock (mix), Kaskade - Room for Happiness way more on the Pro 500s than on the MDs. Bass lines sound good also (more Esperanza Spalding tracks), maybe a bit overdone, but they don't feel like drowning everything else nor muddy which is of course welcomed. Something I feel is a nitpick for me are the Highs as they are too energetic... not harsh nor super sibilant energy (although I could indeed detect some sibilance on some tracks) but just a bit too forward. Soundstage seems wider to me also, not sure if it's due to the more "airier" treble energy playing tricks on my ears/mind, but space definitely seems a bit "enhanced". No distortion at higher volumes in the bass on the test tracks I used... (argh... forgot to test Late Night Tip by Three 6 Mafia :-( ).

 

I feel as both headphones present details very well. Listening to tracks I've heard my whole life a bunch of times I didn't feel like any of them missed anything. They provide different methods of presenting music but BOTH are good in my book.

 

Based on sound quality only which one I would take?

For ME is easy... I like my mids ;-) so definitely I'm going to sway to the Mad Dogs.

If we take the fact that even though the Mad Dogs feel heavier they are more comfortable, well, I would also take the MDs.

 

Why sell my Yahama Pros?

Really if I didn't have my Ultrasone Signature Pros (which I feel are better at everything against both of these) I would probably keep them as my other "go-to" headphones. They come with a butt-load of accessories, feel like a quality product and I like the blue car-like-painted color.

 

Question that I'm sure Mr. Money4Me would love to have answer ( ;-) ), do the Yamaha Pro 500s excel at their price range and why would someone pay $400 instead of the $300 for other headphones?

 

Answer: it all depends on the listener and their tastes. For example, the M100s with their more subdued treble might not be for a specific segment of people which like a more airy, more present upper-mids/highs. Due to this, they also sound "darker" which again some might not like. I feel both are great bass-cannons though and CAN be good with most genres thrown at them. Ultrasone Pro 900s? Well, some people might miss the mids more with these and can indeed find the highs a bit harsh. Denon D600s? Too "inconsistent" to my ears with regards to the boosted lows, and recessed highs and might throw off other people too. Etc. etc.

 

There will always be something to pick apart on every headphone... I believe though that for the Mad Dogs, Sig Pros and Yamaha Pro 500s there are LESS things to nitpick.

 

Hope it helps a bit.

 

 

Thanks.

post #340 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

Question that I'm sure Mr. Money4Me would love to have answer ( ;-) ), do the Yamaha Pro 500s excel at their price range and why would someone pay $400 instead of the $300 for other headphones?

 

Answer: it all depends on the listener and their tastes. For example, the M100s with their more subdued treble might not be for a specific segment of people which like a more airy, more present upper-mids/highs. Due to this, they also sound "darker" which again some might not like. I feel both are great bass-cannons though and CAN be good with most genres thrown at them. Ultrasone Pro 900s? Well, some people might miss the mids more with these and can indeed find the highs a bit harsh. Denon D600s? Too "inconsistent" to my ears with regards to the boosted lows, and recessed highs and might throw off other people too. Etc. etc.

 

There will always be something to pick apart on every headphone... I believe though that for the Mad Dogs, Sig Pros and Yamaha Pro 500s there are LESS things to nitpick.

 

Hope it helps a bit.

 

 

Thanks.

 

heheh... i really enjoyed your review! i think critical/comparison reviews really helps people get a better sense of the strengths/weaknesses of the headphones, so they can tell whether it is suitable for them. thank you for taking the time to write sucha detailed review.

post #341 of 495

Found this on the net...  Seems more in-line w/what my ears hear ... though my ears certainly don't hear a peak @ 8KHz to the degree I see below ... am I really that deaf?!!! (I think that answer is yes):

 

Found here:  http://www.lesnumeriques.com/casque-audio/yamaha-hph-pro500-p15732/test.html

Translated to English:  http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lesnumeriques.com%2Fcasque-audio%2Fyamaha-hph-pro500-p15732%2Ftest.html

 

I can see why these headphone do "live recordings" the best out of all the cans I own.  Listening to a FLAC rip of the 2-ch PCM stream of my Cream: Live @ the Royal Albert Hall DVD right now.  It sure reinforces what was behind me buying them in the 1st place.  Nearly every aspect of the threesome sounds ... perfect ; if I could hear Ginger Baker's cymbal work better it would be near perfect, but I have found the highest highs and lowest lows to be more rolled off than I'd prefer.  The biggest stand-out however is I never heard the upper mid-bass/lower midrange of Jack Bruce's bass when he's playing the highest notes the bass guitar can attain so up-front and 'harmonic' [would 'plucky' be the right word?].

 

Now, for the record, after more time with this and switching between some of my headphones I understand where people are coming from regarding saying they're missing something from 300Hz to 500 or 600 Hz.  But to me, it's slight and not something that detracts from my enjoyment unless I focus on it and let it.  As a matter of fact when I was a much younger lad the 'tone curve' of the Pro500 was my ideal, and what I tuned everything to.  That is until I worked with the bass player for Angel (many years after his leaving the band) who got me to appreciate the 'meat' of the 400Hz range (this was 30 years ago mind you). 

 

So applying some parametric EQ (and which along with the D3's S/PDIF out was the overwhelming reason why I bought a Cowon D3 to be my music player)...  The D3 has a pseudo-parametric EQ that operates in the digital realm within the Wolfrom chip which can vary center frequency of the 5 sliders over 4 preset center frequencies, and filter-Q can be narrow, normal, and wide... here is my preferred listening settings: 

-2Db @ 135Hz, normal Q ; 0db @ 385Hz, normal Q ; -2db @ 1.1KHz (or 780Hz), normal Q ; 0db (sometimes -1db) @ 4.1KHz (or 3Khz), normal Q ; -2db @ 9kHz, narrow Q ; and to make-up for the cut @ 9KHz I apply a +2db or +4db boost to the treble in my E17 DAC/Amp.  I find the bass is usually on 0dB but sometimes I go to -2db or +2db depending on how the material was mixed.

 

I've tried making EQ curves derived from the Sound & Vision measurement and never achieved something that sounded 'right', and better than no EQ at all.  That is until once I stopped cutting the 3KHz range, and it started sounding better than 'stock' to me.


Edited by m8o - 3/11/13 at 1:40pm
post #342 of 495
Your comment about live performance and how they match to these headphones seems to fit with what I hear from the Pro 500s. What I notice is an "uncovering" of an instrument part or recognition of a particular instrument in a complicated mix when I listen with these headphones. I can listen to a song that I have heard ten times before, and if it is a very complicated mix, suddenly I "decode" who is playing what -- sort of a "Oh, that is what is going on" type of reaction.

I am really curious to see what the impulse response is on the Pro 500s. Hopefully Tyli at Innerfidelity will review them so we can see some real tests of their performance.
Edited by jazzman7 - 3/11/13 at 6:52pm
post #343 of 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzman7 View Post

Your comment about live performance and how they match to these headphones seems to fit with what I hear from the Pro 500s. What I notice is an "uncovering" of an instrument part or recognition of a particular instrument in a complicated mix when I listen with these headphones. I can listen to a song that I have heard ten times before, and if it is a very complicated mix, suddenly I "decode" who is playing what -- sort of a "Oh, that is what is going on" type of reaction.

I am really curious to see what the impulse response is on the Pro 500s. Hopefully Tyli at Innerfidelity will review them so we can see some real tests of their performance.


Well said.  You hit the nail on the head.  Somebody in either this thread or another about these mentioned something about expecting to see a lot of resonance in a waterfall plot of them.  I actually postulate it'll be quite the opposite.  It's the only way I see these can create such separation of vocals and instruments producing some serious uncongested coherence of the complex program material; said simply, they're fast.  ...I only hope it remains this way as they break-in!


Edited by m8o - 3/11/13 at 7:31pm
post #344 of 495
Thread Starter 

Just got mine and have been using them throughout the day. First impressions are that they sound like Denon D lineup. More akin to the D600 in terms of treble and bass, but they dont have that weird spike in the upper midrange that made the vocals sound artificial. It still happens to strong female vocals like Lana Del Ray, but more laid back vocals like the XX sound good. In that sense they're more like the D2000s, but the mids aren't as recessed. Bass is powerful like the D2000 and the DT770. They definitely rumble, and that's aided by the fact they're so easy to drive. Not as strong in the sub-bass as the D2000s though. The trebles aren't as sibilant as the D2000s either, but the highs have sparkle. In terms of presentation I think they're much better the both the Denons. Imaging and separation are very good, and they are more three dimensional. Not as good as a900x, but definitely impressive. Plus they're portable. Won't really have a solid opinion until I give it a focused listening.

 

Anybody with both the Denons and Yammys agree? I don't have the Denons anymore so this is going off memory.

post #345 of 495
I'm a fan of the D1000/1001 and their overall warmth so I see what you're saying in terms of being comparable to the 500. The highs on the 500 are smoother and more refined while the D1k has slightly more edgy and artificial highs. I think they're tonally comparable while the 500 just has better detail, separation, more body, and better refinement overall.
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