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Yamaha PRO Headphones. - Page 22

post #316 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

Frustrating for me b/c I said that the Pro 500 is not worth the money (gave examples of cheaper headphones in the same category that are sonically similar and headphones that are in a different class considered to be extremely high-end that are the same price and cheaper headphones from the same manufacturer with identical specs).

 

Internet responded with insults.

 

I asked okay, please explain to me why they are better.

 

Internet responded with go listen to them yourself.

 

Why was this experience frustrating for you?

Dealing with someone who is dense, obsessive, and has very delicate sensibilities is often times frustrating. 

post #317 of 493

Its so strange, as frustrating as he was I'm actually missing money4me247's dense, obsessiveness today.... bless him biggrin.gif

post #318 of 493
Honestly, I could do without "input" by people who haven't tried these headphones or even held these in their hands. It's very, very misleading to anyone who might be interested in these and the 500s are the last headphones that deserve false input. Hope people will post more actual impressions instead.

The more I listen to these the more I feel they are just an amazing all-rounder. The separation reminds me of the DT1350 while they have PRaT that is similar to the HD25/Amperior. Everything sounds very clean, and all the while the tonality is just ridiculously good. I should add that the isolation is great for portable use too. Isolates better than my former 1R.
Edited by roma101 - 3/6/13 at 7:49pm
post #319 of 493

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyboylee View Post

Its so strange, as frustrating as he was I'm actually missing money4me247's dense, obsessiveness today.... bless him biggrin.gif

 

 

just since you said that I'll respond. but hahaha... now I know better than to go to a thread about a certain brand of headphones and say anything negative about the topic of the thread. However, based on the responses I am getting I feel like people aren't accurately interpreting/understanding my comments.

 

 

@everyone who says that everyone hears differently, so you can't trust reviews. If people can't trust reviews, then why should people trust your positive opinions on the Pro 500? My whole point is that everyone hears differently & prefers different sound signatures, so it does NOT make sense for the Yamaha sound signature to be priced higher lol. Didn't seem like a crazy concept to me.

 

While the majority of you are basing your opinions on your personal listening experience, I read through a lot of different reviews. From what I've read of comparisons & stand-alone reviews, there are enough people who prefer other headphones in the lower $300 price range that would make me think that the pro 500 should also be thrown in that price range. I don't understand what is so controversial or offensive about that.

 

Another example of this line of thinking is that a lot of people prefer the sound of the $120 M50 over the $300 Beats. Hence, I think that the Beats are overpriced and should be priced down to that level.

 

All I am saying is that there does not seem to be an objective reason why the Pro 500's are better than many of its $300 competitors. You guys may subjectively like the Pro 500's sound quality more, but there are a lot of other reviewers that subjectively liked the other $300 headphones sound quality more. Does that point make sense to everyone?

 

Also, the only comment I made about their sound quality is that they have a v-shaped sound signature. Basically the almost all of reviewers on Head-Fi reviewing the Pro 500 either talked about the bass boost or specifically mentioned a v-shaped sound signature (except maybe roma101), so I would imagine that characterization of their sound is accurate lol.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

Dude, I mentioned like 2 pages ago that the Pro 500s HAVE ALREADY BEEN PRICED AT $300 AND WILL PROBABLY GO LOWER!! So your primary "nitpick" will already fall on its ass!!! Stop saying that there are cheaper competitors unless V-Moda is priced now at $200 (which it isn't) or any others you mentioned... That's the first thing.

 

I agree with you. At $300, I would say they would be a great closed, portable pair of headphones. It's unfortunate that the $300 deal was a limited time thing. I personally think that the fact their price dropped 25% right after their release is a reflection that $400 is not even remotely close to their real value (personal opinion lol), and also probably due to the fact that not many people were buying them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

Now, you can compile all the reviews and impressions everyone has given but EVERYONE appreciates sound/music in different ways. Yeah yeah, you can get the "basic" sound signature by reading a review, but the nuances will not be caught by everyone. I can talk all I want about instrument separation, details, etc. and not everyone will get the same results. Heck, sometimes I have a hard time when doing A/B comparisons (which is why I at least have to stick with a headphone for 1 or 2 weeks to fully appreciate it!).

lol... I agree. A single reviewer/listener will not catch all the subtle details of the music. Hence, I read multiple reviews. I feel like a compilation of multiple reviews/opinions has less bias than a single listener. Your opinion of these headphones are simply the opinion of one listener. That's why I don't think my opinion of their sound is "uninformed/unfounded" as I can cite a multitude of people who agree about particular aspects of their sound. (and lol I never said the Pro 500 sounded bad. I just said they sound similar to headphones that are much cheaper.) If you are implying that there is an "indescribable" quality in their sound that makes them better than other portable, closed headphones... then I am not sure how to respond b/c I thought the whole point of all these audiophile terms is so that you can objectively describe the sound quality.

 

Probably not a great thing to bring up in a headphones enthusiast forum, but don't you ever wonder why it is that it takes you 1-2 weeks to "fully appreciate the sound"? If the sound is very objectively different, then it should be apparent from an A/B comparison. It may be that the 1-2 week process it takes to "appreciate" the sound of a particular pair of headphones is simply due to your ears adjusting to their sound signature or listener-bias (aka you like the headphones so you think certain parts of the song sound better with a particular pair, but if you do an A/B comparison on that particular section of the song, it actually may sound the same). [This is just conjecture, don't get insulted lol]

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by roma101 View Post


The question is: why is he getting so hopped up about this HP being overpriced vs. others in the same price range? He could make the same argument against the PSB M4U 1/2. Or the Momentums. Or M-100. Or any other headphone he hasn't heard for himself yet.

 

lol... b/c this thread is about the Yamaha Pro. I don't understand what the big fuss is about. I just said I don't think they would be worth the money, so I wouldn't recommend them. 

 

PSB M4U is priced higher b/c it has noise-cancelling so its competitors are in a different range. They appear overpriced to me, but I haven't read/heard anything about its sound, so I can't say if they are doing things better than their competitors that makes the higher price justifiable. For the Momentums, I understand why it is priced slightly higher at $350, because it is offering a flat sound, which audiophiles are typically willing to pay more for that. For the M100, I would imagine the price for sound quality alone would be more along $200-250, but the price is higher for the warranty, build-materials, and style. Just like the Ultrasone Pro 900 was originally priced at $600 (which I would say is overpriced & not recommended), but now that they are $300, I would say they are a good choice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post

Dealing with someone who is dense, obsessive, and has very delicate sensibilities is often times frustrating. 

 

 

Insulting people is never very nice. Ad hominem also does not enhance your own argument.

 

Congrats if you made it through the whole post, and if you took the time to read my post, I believe that you would find that my points are pretty logical. I don't mind if you disagree, but I feel like a lot of people are missing whole point of what I am saying.

post #320 of 493

Or simple version:

 

Everyone hears differently. Everyone has different sound signature preferences. Some people like the Pro 500, but there are also a lot of people that prefer the sound quality of other competing headphones in the $300 price range over the $400 Pro 500. Hence, $400 is too much for these headphones as there is no objective reason that I discovered why these headphones are better than those other portable, closed headphones.

 

A lot of people are getting stuck on the fact I didn't personally audition these headphones, but I read enough comparisons and stand-alone reviews to get a sense of their basic sound signature and the fact that they are not universally considered to be an upgrade in sound quality compared to other closed portable $300 headphones. From what I've read, I am pretty confident is saying that they simply have a different sound signature that you personally may or may not prefer.


Edited by money4me247 - 3/7/13 at 12:41am
post #321 of 493
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I'll explain this better. You can't say that reading impressions is as valid as hearing them for yourself. Nobody said not to trust reviews, but it's silly to just read reviews and think you know how something sounds.
Edited by Ishcabible - 3/7/13 at 5:03am
post #322 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishcabible View Post

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I'll explain this better. You can't say that reading impressions is as valid as hearing them for yourself. Nobody said not to trust reviews, but it's silly to just read reviews and think you know how something sounds.

straw man back at you. I NEVER said I know exactly how they sound or made any comment about their sound except that they are colored. Even the Yamaha product page talks about their bass-boost. lol. All of my claims about these headphones are accurate and independently verifiable and I never made any assumptions or personal comments about their sound quality.

 

My point was simply that the $400 Pro 500 have been compared to cheaper headphones ~$300 (ex: Mad Dogs, M100, MDR-1R, Momentum, UE6000, K550, etc) and sometimes the cheaper $300 headphones beat the Pro 500. Therefore, I concluded that the Pro 500 must simply have a slightly different sound signature that you may or may not prefer. I never went into detail about what this sound signature is, because as you said, I didn't hear them. I just thought it is absurd that you would have to pay $100 extra to get the "Yamaha Pro 500 sound signature" especially when some reviewers thought that the sound signature of competing $300 headphones were better. Also, when they offer an almost identical product: the Pro 400 at $300... I can to the conclusion that the Pro 500 are overpriced as the addition of aluminium earcups are not worth $100 in my own personal opinion.

 

Man, I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on the fact that I didn't personally hear them. That is completely unrelated to my point! I am NOT reviewing their sound quality/signature. Yes, I didn't personally hear them, but when you jump from the $300 bracket to the $400 price bracket (33% increase), you would expect that there is a definite upgrade in sound quality and you would expect that this upgrade in sound quality to be observed in objective comparison reviews. I was just pointing out that this is not the case, so I don't think that they are worth their selling price.

post #323 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

straw man back at you. I NEVER said I know exactly how they sound or made any comment about their sound except that they are colored. Even the Yamaha product page talks about their bass-boost. lol. All of my claims about these headphones are accurate and independently verifiable and I never made any assumptions or personal comments about their sound quality.

 

My point was simply that the $400 Pro 500 have been compared to cheaper headphones ~$300 (ex: Mad Dogs, M100, MDR-1R, Momentum, UE6000, K550, etc) and sometimes the cheaper $300 headphones beat the Pro 500. Therefore, I concluded that the Pro 500 must simply have a slightly different sound signature that you may or may not prefer. I never went into detail about what this sound signature is, because as you said, I didn't hear them. I just thought it is absurd that you would have to pay $100 extra to get the "Yamaha Pro 500 sound signature" especially when some reviewers thought that the sound signature of competing $300 headphones were better. Also, when they offer an almost identical product: the Pro 400 at $300... I can to the conclusion that the Pro 500 are overpriced as the addition of aluminium earcups are not worth $100 in my own personal opinion.

 

Man, I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on the fact that I didn't personally hear them. That is completely unrelated to my point! I am NOT reviewing their sound quality/signature. Yes, I didn't personally hear them, but when you jump from the $300 bracket to the $400 price bracket (33% increase), you would expect that there is a definite upgrade in sound quality and you would expect that this upgrade in sound quality to be observed in objective comparison reviews. I was just pointing out that this is not the case, so I don't think that they are worth their selling price.

 

Your comments without personal experience is next to nothing really. We all can read those reviews and make our own opinions.

 

I personally have Sony MDR-1R and Hifiman HE-400 and I really think Pro 500 is well worth the money.

post #324 of 493
You've already been warned by Currawong. At that point, you should probably stop. As will I because this is pointless. I just don't understand why you're so hellbent to convince people, even people who own the headphone, that a headphone you haven't heard is poor for its price point because of a sound signature it may or may not have.
Edited by Ishcabible - 3/8/13 at 4:43am
post #325 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

Man, I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on the fact that I didn't personally hear them. That is completely unrelated to my point! I am NOT reviewing their sound quality/signature. Yes, I didn't personally hear them, but when you jump from the $300 bracket to the $400 price bracket (33% increase), you would expect that there is a definite upgrade in sound quality and you would expect that this upgrade in sound quality to be observed in objective comparison reviews. I was just pointing out that this is not the case, so I don't think that they are worth their selling price.

 

If you have not heard either of them, you know nothing about them and therefore have no opinion.

post #326 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

Man, I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on the fact that I didn't personally hear them. That is completely unrelated to my point! I am NOT reviewing their sound quality/signature. Yes, I didn't personally hear them, but when you jump from the $300 bracket to the $400 price bracket (33% increase), you would expect that there is a definite upgrade in sound quality and you would expect that this upgrade in sound quality to be observed in objective comparison reviews. I was just pointing out that this is not the case, so I don't think that they are worth their selling price.

 

Diminishing returns my friend,

diminishing returns...

 

This diagram will probably do good to you lol:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/595683/fostex-th900-impressions-discussion-thread/2175#post_8833999

 

TH900s usually sell for $1700 to $2000... they have the "Fostex" U-shape sound similar to discontinued Denon D5000/D7000 (which you can find used from $400 to $800) and STILL people "prefer" the TH900s... They have VERY SIMILAR sound but still, some people just prefer TH900 tonality and more present mids and detailing and don't care about spending $1000 bucks extra... If YOU cannot hear the differences, then stick with the D5000/7000. Some people prefer the slight sound and build improvements and pay the money. Someone like you who looks for a similar sound signature WITHOUT going overboard would just stick with the Denons...

 

It's all in the way you perceive music... maybe WE (the people that liked how the Pro 500s sounded) just like these more than the current competition and we BELIEVE THAT THE PRICE IS GOOD AT $400 over the others!

post #327 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

If you have not heard either of them, you know nothing about them and therefore have no opinion.

 

LOL! This is a bit harsh Beagle! I know where he is coming from though, same thing happens to me with amps... still, it's about what you prefer to hear and SPEND! We are Ok spending $400 and benefitting from the sound/musical upgrade... he is not (and should not therefore go to the $500-$800 range because most of them will have similar signatures and might consider them not worth it! :-p ).

post #328 of 493

Well I just returned my pair, had them for about a week.  The clarity and separation was outstanding but I kept finding my self rasing the volume to hear the vocals and all I kept hearing was more bass and treble which lead me to my refund. 

 

My M50's maintain more foward mids than the pro 500s.  

post #329 of 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by peck1234 View Post

My M50's maintain more foward mids than the pro 500s.  

 

Really? I abhorred the M50's mids. If the PRO500 has less, I'm looking elsewhere.

post #330 of 493

That is not the case to my ears but everyone is different. The highs are very much emphasized on the M50s which causes me not to wear them portably in loud environments and so I've felt that they are much more V-shaped. The 500s are more balanced across the spectrum to my ears despite there being a slight emphasis on bass.


Edited by roma101 - 3/8/13 at 2:49pm
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