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Rant warning: A Lesson In Manners, or "How NOT to get someone to give you advice" - Page 4

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc-holliday View Post

Does it ever seem like people are asking questions just for the sake of asking questions? With no intent to buy or be helped?

 

I guess I'm lucky. I've gotten asked a few questions and I've never had anybody be rude or pester me unduly. On the other hand, I'm not quite on the level of some of the gurus around here, so I don't attract that many questioners.

 

I've seen quite a bit of it going on in the general equipment forums, though. I think a lot of people want there to be a simple, easy answer, and when they learn enough to figure out that that's not the case with headphones (or anything in this world, if it comes to it) they just get discouraged and write the whole thing off. In the mean time they've asked a dozen people for detailed information and then they decide not to do anything with it (and probably buy Beats).

post #47 of 58

I had to contact some nice people here because I cant buy anything if I dont hear someone's opinion first : D Sometimes I stress about being polite enough because my english isnt that good. 

post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

I guess I'm lucky. I've gotten asked a few questions and I've never had anybody be rude or pester me unduly. On the other hand, I'm not quite on the level of some of the gurus around here, so I don't attract that many questioners.

For example I got this one guy who's posting on this thread i put together who has been around asking about which pair of $40 headphones he wants to buy for OVER A MONTH!. I don't want to be rude to him publicly but c'mon. And to make matters worse, he pipes in on a recommendation I made to someone else on a budget headphone ($60 dollar philips uptown) and basically says I am wrong!..... he doesn't even own any HPs!

Pardon the ^... feels good to rant every once an a while biggrin.gif I am done now cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratok View Post

I had to contact some nice people here because I cant buy anything if I dont hear someone's opinion first : D Sometimes I stress about being polite enough because my english isnt that good.

And surely whomever you asked was very grateful of your politeness. Don't get me or anyone wrong. You are MORE THAN WELCOME to ask members questions. Just a couple people we are talking about. Thanks and welcome to headfi!
post #49 of 58

Good manners cost nothing!

post #50 of 58

-Deleted


Edited by Kost - 12/1/12 at 3:23am
post #51 of 58
Thread Starter 
Unfortunately, this thread requires bumping.

I'm not bumping this just because of the PMs I get. I'm sure it's true for many other people here.

Folks, if you want someone to help you - ASK NICELY. It's really very, very simple. Take an extra three seconds, and put a please and thank you in your request. It isn't that hard, and it will greatly increase the odds of your actually getting a useful reply.
post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Unfortunately, this thread requires bumping.

I'm not bumping this just because of the PMs I get. I'm sure it's true for many other people here.

Folks, if you want someone to help you - ASK NICELY. It's really very, very simple. Take an extra three seconds, and put a please and thank you in your request. It isn't that hard, and it will greatly increase the odds of your actually getting a useful reply.

Good reminder Rob. In the past week I've had 2 or 3 PMs basically demanding answers...no please and in one case I responded (moment of weakness I guess) and no follow up "thank you" from said member. confused.gif

 

I blame the parents. rolleyes.gif

post #53 of 58
The mass majority of my pms are nice smily_headphones1.gif but there are rude people on youtube. I find it to be much more there than here
post #54 of 58

I still get PMs with gear-related questions, even with the line in my signature that's been there for over a year (though I don't remember exactly when I first put it there). I get about 1 PM about every other week on average, asking questions without bothering to put any pleasantries in it. Not that I'd answer anyway, but without the pleasantries it gives me absolutely zero motivation to respond.

 

I'm compelled to explain why I have the line in my sig, some of which is related to the subject of the thread:

 

- A lot of the people asking gear-related questions are merely looking for validation. Or in other words, they've already made up their mind what they want to buy, and regardless of how I respond, they're probably going to buy it anyway, so why would I bother responding?

 

- Back when I first started out in Head-Fi and was a lot more active (2005-2007) and when I got a lot more PMs than I do today (before I had the line in my sig), I used to spend quite a bit of time on responses to PMs. Back then I was more interested in trying to help out people, so I often wrote out long detailed responses. However, this ended up creating a "burned bridge" for me because the vast majority of people who sent PMs never said thanks for those responses, never followed up, sometimes ended up buying something against my advice or just ignored my advice completely, etc. Very rarely did anyone ever buy or do something that I recommended. It's 90% because of those collective Head-Fi members that I now just completely ignore gear-related questions via PM today. Of course, I know that what I'm doing (punishing the current generation of Head-Fiers for the actions of the past generation) is wrong in a sense, but I just can't shake that attitude. I feel like it would just be exactly the same result today if I invested time into it, if not worse.

 

- Over time I've also realized that my opinion matters less and less to other people, given the subjectivity of audio perception. Which is why the only thing I spend time writing are the relatively infrequent comparative reviews that I still do. I've long believed that comparison is the best sort of way to write about audio gear. You can't just write about one thing on its own without another frame of reference. So I invest time & effort into the reviews that will hopefully reach more people than just one, which leads to my next point.

 

- Trying to help just 1 person with their questions is futile when there are so many people on Head-Fi. A response to one individual PM, assuming that the recipient even follows what I suggest, will help only one person. Why do that when writing a comparative review, or any other kind of public forum post, will reach potentially everyone?

 

- The lack of pleasantries also kills my motivation anyway. Why would I bother to respond to someone who's asking rudely? The collective ignorance of Head-Fiers who lack common courtesy in asking questions to a complete stranger is mind-boggling.

 

- There's also the factor that I'm just one person with some very large biases that not all people share. I'm a self-professed treble-head, clarity-seeker, & speedfreak. tongue.gif There probably are very few people on Head-Fi who share my sonic preferences, and there are many who disagree with my posts in one way or another. I'm not a fan of the HD800, or any of the current planar magnetics (I've heard most of them). The only headphones I actually like tend to be either dynamic or electrostatic. I don't like anything that uses vacuum tubes or isn't aesthetically sleek. I prefer buying equipment made by first-world countries (preferably the USA, as I'm a proud American). My sonic preferences are also colored in the light of the fact that I'm also a musician (violinist since the age of 7). I did not like classical music growing up because I heard it everyday as part of that violin training but have since re-discovered it in recent years. With all that in mind (plus more that I haven't mentioned), how can I hope to help anyone? I've since determined that it's futile to try to help Head-Fiers in that way, and that everyone needs to hear gear for themselves. It's a journey of self-discovery, not a journey of asking other people questions. That doesn't lead anywhere.

 

That covers just about the entirety of why I have the line in my sig. Then there are PMs like this, which I was honestly shocked to receive in reference to an FS ad that I created earlier this year, from a Head-Fier with a trader feedback rating of +6:

 

Quote:
Do you mind editing your post to remove the price?  I'm trying to sell a pair soon.

 

I was half inclined to tell this Head-Fier why I should care about his sale, or any other number of potentially snarky or mean responses that I could've come up with, but I never responded because it wasn't worth it. If this Head-Fier would've taken the time to notice, in 7 years of selling items on Head-Fi I've never removed a price from an ad. And just because there are other Head-Fiers who remove prices doesn't mean I do it as well. I purposely don't do it for a few reasons. No one has ever complained to me about that until now with that PM. Plus his rude attitude was completely the wrong way to go about it. If he'd asked nicely I might have considered removing the price in question.

 

I won't name the Head-Fier but it's attitudes like his that continue to build up the negative impression that I have of Head-Fiers in general and the continuing mentality of a refusal to respond to most PMs. (I do make the odd exception for PMs every now and then that don't fall in the scope of why I ignore PMs, but those are few and far between. One of those exceptions recently was a meet invitation, which I had to turn down due to a conflict.)

post #55 of 58

It is possible that low cost of entry into this hobby means a lot of younger users, some quite young. View Post

It's the "Generation of Entitlement" at their finest.  And it's not just on the internet, it's everywhere. View Post

Chances are they are young kids that have been raised by TV and the Internet, and are likely the kind of people to use their cell phones at a family dinner. View Post

 

There seems to be a trend in this thread to just hand-wave this problem as being a result of youth being unruly and unwashed or whatever without any proof or evidence to suggest that this is the root of the problem. 


Being part of that age group, I get this a lot, and let me assure you from experience: It has very little to do with age, and a whole lot to do with stupidity. Idiocy is one human attribute that is shared pretty commonly across all age groups. Don't just assume that it's just teenagers acting like this.


Edited by Tus-Chan - 7/14/13 at 2:25am
post #56 of 58

ASR -I admire you honest/straight-forwardness-and frankness . That's how it should without resorting to sarcasm . I post in the same fashion but because I am "not conventional"-IE -obeying all their rules I get sarcastic comments I reply with some of my own and that just makes them worse. They don't like to take what they give out. . Because some people have different views they are "torn apart" here. But I would very much prefer a bit of manners so that we could talk civilly to each other even if we both  disagree with each others Philosophy on sound.There are whole forums which are filled with sarcasm of others because they "don't understand"  that forums "way of life" when it comes to sound" It wont stop but I wont "give in " to it. As any belief " forced down someones throat" is not the way to go about teaching anyone anything.Live and let live! 

post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

There seems to be a trend in this thread to just hand-wave this problem as being a result of youth being unruly and unwashed or whatever without any proof or evidence to suggest that this is the root of the problem. 


Being part of that age group, I get this a lot, and let me assure you from experience: It has very little to do with age, and a whole lot to do with stupidity. Idiocy is one human attribute that is shared pretty commonly across all age groups. Don't just assume that it's just teenagers acting like this.

I agree - it's not just youth. I often see a similar behavior at work - I call it the "one liner syndrome" - there seems to be some people who believe that short, rude emails demonstrate their superiority - it's very common among "busy executives" - you write a clear and concise description of a problem or a request and you get back: "No" or "Yes" or "Have it fixed by Monday" or "This is not what I asked for"

I sometimes wonder if there are two types of people - those that attempt to write with some sense of emotion, implied inflection and tone - and those that do none of that. Is it because they also lack the ability to read emotion, implied inflection and tone? Maybe they have no experience with the concept because they never read fiction? Some of these people might be passionate and perfectly articulate when speaking in person or by phone - but they simply won't (or can't) put the same effort into an electronic message. I almost feel sorry for them - until I realize they are high-paid corporate executives... tongue.gif
post #58 of 58

I, too, have noticed that some guys must be better speakers than writers. Even so, surely some are curt enough to annoy.

 

So how do we get rude members to read this thread? If the PM is a smart question rudely posed, we can send them a link to this thread.


Edited by Claritas - 11/30/13 at 12:58am
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