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iPhone 5 Audio Quality with headphones? is it better than the iPhone 4S? - Page 6

post #76 of 119
10/10/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

Good ol' linearity has vanished on the 5:
http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iphone5.htm
This curve did not look that way while Jobs was alive.
You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma.

 

Please read the description on top. Chain used was Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10.

 

And the frequency response graph is the exact graph of the Triple.Fi 10 frequency response. You need a flat IEM to get a flat FR curve in RMAA.

 

In the interest of fairness, the iPhone 4 looks like this:

http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iPhone4/data.htm

 

And here's the iPhone 4S:

http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iphone4s/data.htm

 

Neither is completely flat.

 

Here's the impedance vs frequency curve of the Triple.Fi 10:


Edited by Bill-P - 10/10/12 at 4:15pm
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post #77 of 119
10/10/12 at 4:36pm
Have you guys tried the galaxy s3? I have one and and iPhone 4 and the S3 is significantly better with my SE215's
I'm not a fan of the S3 for the phone or android os, but the audio is significantly better in my opinion. Would recommend anyone to try it out if audio is the key priority..
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post #78 of 119
10/10/12 at 7:42pm

Well, I wouldn't say the Galaxy S3 is better. Just that it's... different.

 

I think the Galaxy S3 is better for vocal music because it has a very engaging upfront midrange presentation with very soothing higher frequencies. However, the upfront presentation is its downfall when it comes to electronic and dance music.

 

It's also not as "precise" when it comes to instrumental music. Something about it just feels... smoothed over. Soft, even.

 

On the other hand, the iPhone 4/4S/5 is awesome where details are of utmost importance, and the iPhone 5 definitely feels like it has higher resolution still.

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post #79 of 119
10/10/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

Actually that is what i was told by a Westone engineer last year when i asked about um3x impedance distribution.
He went as far as telling me to buy the lowest output impedance player i could find and to never add a resistor since it will skew the intended response of the transducers.
I guess that Westone engineer will know better than fans.(i can send the email from Westone to anybody interested in the issue).
You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma.

When I first got multidriver IEMs with passive crossovers many years ago (Shure e500c), I quickly heard and learned that in-line attenuators such as a simple voltage divider killed the sense of depth and ambience by introducing phase distortion and changed roll-offs. The Westone engineer is right.
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post #80 of 119
10/10/12 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

Quote: Originally Posted by elfary Good ol' linearity has vanished on the 5: http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iphone5.htm This curve did not look that way while Jobs was alive. You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma. Please read the description on top. Chain used was Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10. And the frequency response graph is the exact graph of the Triple.Fi 10 frequency response. You need a flat IEM to get a flat FR curve in RMAA. In the interest of fairness, the iPhone 4 looks like this: http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iPhone4/data.htm And here's the iPhone 4S: http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iphone4s/data.htm Neither is completely flat. Here's the impedance vs frequency curve of the Triple.Fi 10:

iPhone 4/4s don't reach 2 decibels of linearity loss.

iPhone 5 goes close to 3.

With some iems there's a tonal difference and the 5 skews more the signal than 4/4s.

I must tell again that in Westone i was told to always look for a source with the lower output impedance. In that regard 3'27 is worse than iP 4/4s. A step back however you look at it.

The tf10 plot was just a snapshot of the effect of 3'27 in real world.( More on this on the iPhone 5 measurements thread).

I don't deem the 5 as a bad perfomer. Just worse than previous versions

On side note It's worth noting that unloaded crosstalk has gone from -95 to -83.


You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma.
Edited by elfary - 10/10/12 at 9:08pm
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post #81 of 119
10/10/12 at 9:09pm
This post suggests the output impedance of the IPhone 5 is up about 2.3 ohms from the great old IPhone 4. mad.gif

http://www.head-fi.org/t/631155/iphone-5-thorough-measurements
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post #82 of 119
10/10/12 at 9:53pm
Interesting comments, and not as per my impression, but will have a side by side listen and see if my ears concur...
Thx.
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post #83 of 119
10/10/12 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

iPhone 4/4s don't reach 2 decibels of linearity loss.
iPhone 5 goes close to 3.
With some iems there's a tonal difference and the 5 skews more the signal than 4/4s.
I must tell again that in Westone i was told to always look for a source with the lower output impedance. In that regard 3'27 is worse than iP 4/4s. A step back however you look at it.
The tf10 plot was just a snapshot of the effect of 3'27 in real world.( More on this on the iPhone 5 measurements thread).
I don't deem the 5 as a bad perfomer. Just worse than previous versions
On side note It's worth noting that unloaded crosstalk has gone from -95 to -83.
You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma.

These are extreme cases with IEMs that are specifically bad with the device. So of course it'll look bad. That's what I'm trying to say. Would it be fair if I try to drive a DT880 600 Ohm out of the iPhone 4S and condemn it for not having enough voltage to push the headphone to listenable volume? Of course not.

It's obvious you won't get perfectly linear FR from either the iPhone 4/4S or 5. If there is distortion, then it's just bad regardless of whether there is more or less of it. It just looks to me likeeven the iPhone 4/4S aren't ideal. If you want to drive those IEMs, I think an external amp with <1 Ohm output impedance fed through LOD would do much better.

Again, not everyone owns IEMs with impedance drops. Some of us use headphones that don't exhibit this current-limitting behavior, and we have been able to get by just fine.

I'm not defending the iPhone 5, but I think this whole iPhone 4/4S vs 5 debate is getting ridiculous when you start throwing out measurements as the absolute baseline way of telling how inferior a product is without even trying it with your own ears.

Like someone else said, judge it when you have heard it.
Edited by Bill-P - 10/10/12 at 9:57pm
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post #84 of 119
10/11/12 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IpodHappy View Post

This post suggests the output impedance of the IPhone 5 is up about 2.3 ohms from the great old IPhone 4. mad.gif
http://www.head-fi.org/t/631155/iphone-5-thorough-measurements

 

Chatting thru Twitter with Markus Kraus which has measured (and heard) almost every existing source driving TF10's he told me that after hours trying different armatures (custom included) with iP5 he thinks output impedance is closer to 4 than to 3.

 

I've done my math and assuming that TF10 has lowest impedance of 6.5 and and a higher impedance of 65 my guessing is that actual output impedance is 3.8. I've emailed to goldenears to ask them about the issue (http://laaudiofile.com/images/ue_triple_fi_10_imp.jpg)

 

However you look at it iPhone 5:

 

1. Has less output power

2. Has a Z more than 2 ohms

3. Line out got more cumbersome

 

Hence it's a step back in my book. And i won't trade my 4S for a 5. Sound was the only reason for my iPhone ownership.

 

Note: And for the record i tried an iP5 this weekend. And i concur with Markus Kraus. And again i don't deem it as a bad source just a step back sound wise


Edited by elfary - 10/11/12 at 12:33am
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post #85 of 119
10/11/12 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post

These are extreme cases with IEMs that are specifically bad with the device. So of course it'll look bad. That's what I'm trying to say. Would it be fair if I try to drive a DT880 600 Ohm out of the iPhone 4S and condemn it for not having enough voltage to push the headphone to listenable volume? Of course not.
It's obvious you won't get perfectly linear FR from either the iPhone 4/4S or 5. If there is distortion, then it's just bad regardless of whether there is more or less of it. It just looks to me likeeven the iPhone 4/4S aren't ideal. If you want to drive those IEMs, I think an external amp with <1 Ohm output impedance fed through LOD would do much better.
Again, not everyone owns IEMs with impedance drops. Some of us use headphones that don't exhibit this current-limitting behavior, and we have been able to get by just fine.
I'm not defending the iPhone 5, but I think this whole iPhone 4/4S vs 5 debate is getting ridiculous when you start throwing out measurements as the absolute baseline way of telling how inferior a product is without even trying it with your own ears.
Like someone else said, judge it when you have heard it.

I agree, this is being blown so much out of the water that it is starting to get ridiculous. Neither phone is a great sounding source. The worst I've ever listened to my jh13(which are 12 driver custom iem btw) has been out of all of my iphones. They even sound much better out of my ipod 7g classic which measure much worst than either phone. I think they both sound good for phones, but the differences in measurements doesn't make either sound much better than the other. They both are sub-par compared to any home, or portable dac. And both are still behind the ipod classic 5.5g, 7g, and all of the ipads I've owned.
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post #86 of 119
10/11/12 at 6:04am

How can it be better when its the same phone year after year tongue_smile.gif

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post #87 of 119
10/11/12 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moodyrn View Post


I agree, this is being blown so much out of the water that it is starting to get ridiculous. Neither phone is a great sounding source. The worst I've ever listened to my jh13(which are 12 driver custom iem btw) has been out of all of my iphones. They even sound much better out of my ipod 7g classic which measure much worst than either phone. I think they both sound good for phones, but the differences in measurements doesn't make either sound much better than the other. They both are sub-par compared to any home, or portable dac. And both are still behind the ipod classic 5.5g, 7g, and all of the ipads I've owned.

 

My ears are not as qualified as yours because mine concur with numbers. Which is funny because i heard the majority of the players before knowing the figures.

 

Guess you don't like a linear signal reaching the transducers of the JH13. For whatever reason i do like lineralty that allows the transducer to shine thru undisturbed.

 

Each man to his own anyway

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post #88 of 119
10/11/12 at 7:37am

Not sure about the 4S, but I find my old 4 to sound better than my current 5. Not that 5 sounds bad at all or anything though.

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post #89 of 119
10/11/12 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by K_19 View Post

Not sure about the 4S, but I find my old 4 to sound better than my current 5. Not that 5 sounds bad at all or anything though.

 

That mirrors exactly what i mean. iPhone 5 headphone out is very good but is slight step back from the 4/4S.

 

At least for my ears and for my maths.


Edited by elfary - 10/11/12 at 7:55am
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post #90 of 119
10/11/12 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

My ears are not as qualified as yours because mine concur with numbers. Which is funny because i heard the majority of the players before knowing the figures.

Guess you don't like a linear signal reaching the transducers of the JH13. For whatever reason i do like lineralty that allows the transducer to shine thru undisturbed.

Each man to his own anyway

No, I like for my jh13 to sound the way they sound out of my home set ups. Neither the iPhone 4 or 5 can come anywhere close to that. Which is why I purchased the godap 4.0. That brings the performance of my jh13 closer but not equal. If the iPhone 4 was as great sounding as you say it is, products like the godap, vmoda vamp, clas, fostex etc wouldn't exist. So shame on these manufacturers for producing products to bypass the internal dac when it's world class to begin with. What were they thinking. And people like myself and others who purchased the vamp and godaps should have their ears checked. This really is to the point of silliness and I'm finished posting about it.
Edited by moodyrn - 10/11/12 at 7:58am
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