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post #5776 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlylover View Post
 

 

Try downloading the drivers from Intel's website instead of the motherboard website, sometimes the manufacturers are slower to update their web pages.

 

Also, try dicking around in the bios to see if USB 3 is enabled and such (if there even is an option), maybe something is disabled for one reason or another.

 

If that doesn't work, then try digging for an older version of the drivers and giving them a crack.

 

The last resort is to reformat. :p

 

 

It'll probably run fine....for a while.

 

One can always upgrade when funds permit, no need to make a big deal over it, but I'm sure the boys are just giving fair warning that it's realllyy noooot a good idea to be using a cheapie PSU on an enthusiast system.

 

The Seasonic 860W XP2 has been running like a champ by the way (old silverstone died a few months back), the fan doesn't even turn on while mining. :D:D


Alright, I'll give those a try. Thanks!

 

Well, my plan was to get a 500W PSU for my sis' rig, but nooo, my dad said 450W was fine. Too much of a penny-pincher, that one. :p 

 

Ah well, I'll talk my dad into buying 500 or even 600W PSUs for both our PCs.

 

UPDATE: Okay, my dad says he's buying new PSUs! We're getting 600W models. What are your recommendations?


Edited by thatBeatsguy - 6/3/14 at 10:20pm
post #5777 of 9059
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post
 


Alright, I'll give those a try. Thanks!

 

Well, my plan was to get a 500W PSU for my sis' rig, but nooo, my dad said 450W was fine. Too much of a penny-pincher, that one. :p

450W technically is fine if you bought something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151124

 

which costs $75 and is the leading company that gives hardons to people like Haiburi and people on

OCN. 
 

 

...Not...when you found a $20 PSU from a company that Google can't even find, that your dad which is more into software claims is good, and where its specs can't be found. 

post #5778 of 9059

bad psu can kill your pc slowly by ripple and dirty power.

 

its not about the wattage itself but how efficient the psu delivers the power. Some bad psu can't even supply the power they state. so if you have 450W psu that can only supply 350w of continuous load and pair that with bad efficiency, you might have trouble in the future.

 

500 watt is fine if you buy smthn good. 450 watt is fine even.

post #5779 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

450W technically is fine if you bought something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151124

 

which costs $75 and is the leading company that gives hardons to people like Haiburi and people on

OCN. 
 

 

...Not...when you found a $20 PSU from a company that Google can't even find, that your dad which is more into software claims is good, and where its specs can't be found. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rovopio View Post
 

bad psu can kill your pc slowly by ripple and dirty power.

 

its not about the wattage itself but how efficient the psu delivers the power. Some bad psu can't even supply the power they state. so if you have 450W psu that can only supply 350w of continuous load and pair that with bad efficiency, you might have trouble in the future.

 

500 watt is fine if you buy smthn good. 450 watt is fine even.

Welp. How does an Antec 600W do? Should be good, I think.

 

Anyway, @deadlylover and @bowei006, thanks so much for the help! I worked on this almost all night, and the only problem was outdated drivers. Damn. Anyway, now I should get my stuff installed. Thanks again!

:beerchug:

 

Also, don't get so angry at me. I am but a humble n00b in the world of PC building. Oh, yeah, and the PSU and MoBo is my dad's fault. Blame it on him. I literally had nothing to do with it. :p

post #5780 of 9059
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post
 

 

Welp. How does an Antec 600W do? Should be good, I think.

 

Anyway, @deadlylover and @bowei006, thanks so much for the help! I worked on this almost all night, and the only problem was outdated drivers. Damn. Anyway, now I should get my stuff installed. Thanks again!

:beerchug:

 

Also, don't get so angry at me. I am but a humble n00b in the world of PC building. Oh, yeah, and the PSU and MoBo is my dad's fault. Blame it on him. I literally had nothing to do with it. :p

Depends on what Antec...hell, get a good Antec from a Seasonic rebrand, and even the 450W should be enough as long as the rails are...and that you aren't planning to add more stuff into it.

 

But I don't like to stick too close perosnally. Just a personal thing. 

post #5781 of 9059
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post

 

Welp. How does an Antec 600W do? Should be good, I think.

 

Anyway, @deadlylover and @bowei006, thanks so much for the help! I worked on this almost all night, and the only problem was outdated drivers. Damn. Anyway, now I should get my stuff installed. Thanks again!

:beerchug:

 

Nice!, glad to hear everything worked out, would have been a bummer if you had to return something for warranty!

 

You're welcome. ^^

post #5782 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

Depends on what Antec...hell, get a good Antec from a Seasonic rebrand, and even the 450W should be enough as long as the rails are...and that you aren't planning to add more stuff into it.

 

But I don't like to stick too close perosnally. Just a personal thing. 


Lol. The Antec PSU is a VP-600P.

We're also thinking of getting a Seasonic G550 in its stead if it's better. You guys seem to love Seasonic so much. But I'm a n00b, so if you guys say it's good, then it's good, because you're the PC experts here.

 

It makes me realize just how awesome this community is. Never going back. Ever.


Edited by thatBeatsguy - 6/3/14 at 10:40pm
post #5783 of 9059
Thread Starter 
Im not the one with a raging Seasonic hardon. Oters do. They are just a good benchmark brand for quality designs.
post #5784 of 9059

Okay, update on the PSU dilemma: my dad just came home, he ain't believing any of the schiit you guys said, arguing that the 550+W PSUs aren't important beacuse they never reach max load (although 80% is very close IMO). I don't believe him though. Anyway, let me run down the specs of the PSU I have for ya:

  • 20A at +3.3v and +5v
  • 37A at +12V
  • .5A at -12V
  • 3.0A at +5VSB

 

My sister's is about the same, at about 3A give or take. What should I look for in a PSU?

post #5785 of 9059
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post
 

Okay, update on the PSU dilemma: my dad just came home, he ain't believing any of the schiit you guys said, arguing that the 550+W PSUs aren't important beacuse they never reach max load (although 80% is very close IMO). I don't believe him though. Anyway, let me run down the specs of the PSU I have for ya:

  • 20A at +3.3v and +5v
  • 37A at +12V
  • .5A at -12V
  • 3.0A at +5VSB

 

My sister's is about the same, at about 3A give or take. What should I look for in a PSU?

 

It's not uncommon for cheapo power supplies to be over rated, I bet it doesn't tell you the temperature for which those ratings are tested at. As you can imagine, the temperatures in a warm computer case will be a decent chunk higher than at standard room temp.

 

Component quality such as the electrolytic capacitors used in the power supply is very important too, you don't want a power supply's caps to crap out after a few years of use.

 

I saw the advertisement for that power supply to be 82% max efficiency, which is terrible compared to today's 92% (@50% load 230v) gold supplies, which are reasonably priced. You might think, oh 10%, big deal, right? But that's wasted power which you're paying for on your electricity bill, and more importantly, that wasted energy it turned into heat, and heat is not so good for electronic components.

 

Your dad is right, there's no point in buying a 550W+ power supply if you don't plan to upgrade, since your power draw will only be in the region of around 350W-400W. But I wouldn't trust an el cheapo '450W rated' power supply to be reliable when running full tilt, there just aren't any reviews or tests on the unit, so it's hard to judge the quality, that's why we have to err on the side of caution.

 

Will your computer burst into flames? Probably not because I think you'll only be drawing 350W tops unless you're doing some crazy overclocking, and I think the Sama 450W might perform just fine, even if we take 100W off from it's rating for marketing shizzlewizzle.

 

What I'm really trying to say is, don't you feel uncomfortable relying on a cheap power supply of unknown quality to power up a new expensive computer?


Edited by deadlylover - 6/4/14 at 5:49am
post #5786 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post
 


Lol. The Antec PSU is a VP-600P.

We're also thinking of getting a Seasonic G550 in its stead if it's better. You guys seem to love Seasonic so much. But I'm a n00b, so if you guys say it's good, then it's good, because you're the PC experts here.

 

It makes me realize just how awesome this community is. Never going back. Ever.


Antec branded PSUs are of good quality, even their cheap ones (from experience).  Here is my recent experience with 3 PSUs inside my livingroom server:

              * 28 JD - 350W Gigabyte in the same build without the extra HDDs had no issues.  Very silent!  Gave it away.. (Probably Shouldn't have)

              * $40 - 400W Antec in the same build has 3 extra HDDs in RAID without any issues.  Silent!  Moved it to another build.

              * $35 - 550W Raidmax in the same build without the extra HDDs has issues.  (USB cutoffs, stalls, crashes).  Loud, whines, clearly inferior in quality.

             

 

I would not spend much on a PSU if my total budget was small. (e.g $80 in a $500 project).  7%-10% of my build budget goes into the PSU, so I guess that makes me some sort of heretic in the realm of enthusiasts ;)

If it is too good to be true it might be, but I would recommend to not go overboard on a PSU unless your system is going to cost $1000+. 

 

 

 

post #5787 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlylover View Post
 

 

It's not uncommon for cheapo power supplies to be over rated, I bet it doesn't tell you the temperature for which those ratings are tested at. As you can imagine, the temperatures in a warm computer case will be a decent chunk higher than at standard room temp.

 

Component quality such as the electrolytic capacitors used in the power supply is very important too, you don't want a power supply's caps to crap out after a few years of use.

 

I saw the advertisement for that power supply to be 82% max efficiency, which is terrible compared to today's 92% (@50% load 230v) gold supplies, which are reasonably priced. You might think, oh 10%, big deal, right? But that's wasted power which you're paying for on your electricity bill, and more importantly, that wasted energy it turned into heat, and heat is not so good for electronic components.

 

Your dad is right, there's no point in buying a 550W+ power supply if you don't plan to upgrade, since your power draw will only be in the region of around 350W-400W. But I wouldn't trust an el cheapo '450W rated' power supply to be reliable when running full tilt, there just aren't any reviews or tests on the unit, so it's hard to judge the quality, that's why we have to err on the side of caution.

 

Will your computer burst into flames? Probably not because I think you'll only be drawing 350W tops unless you're doing some crazy overclocking, and I think the Sama 450W might perform just fine, even if we take 100W off from it's rating for marketing shizzlewizzle.

 

What I'm really trying to say is, don't you feel uncomfortable relying on a cheap power supply of unknown quality to power up a new expensive computer?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
 


Antec branded PSUs are of good quality, even their cheap ones (from experience).  Here is my recent experience with 3 PSUs inside my livingroom server:

              * 28 JD - 350W Gigabyte in the same build without the extra HDDs had no issues.  Very silent!  Gave it away.. (Probably Shouldn't have)

              * $40 - 400W Antec in the same build has 3 extra HDDs in RAID without any issues.  Silent!  Moved it to another build.

              * $35 - 550W Raidmax in the same build without the extra HDDs has issues.  (USB cutoffs, stalls, crashes).  Loud, whines, clearly inferior in quality.

             

 

I would not spend much on a PSU if my total budget was small. (e.g $80 in a $500 project).  7%-10% of my build budget goes into the PSU, so I guess that makes me some sort of heretic in the realm of enthusiasts ;)

If it is too good to be true it might be, but I would recommend to not go overboard on a PSU unless your system is going to cost $1000+. 

Well, I hate to break it to you, but...these systems are a kilobuck each. So yeah, like what deadlylover said, I really am worried about these kilobuck rigs bursting into flames.

post #5788 of 9059
Thread Starter 

Your fathers logic isn't wrong.

 

But next time your dad goes shopping, ask him why he doesn't take your dinner groceries from the dumpster. They both feature comparable amount of nutrients and calorie intake in them?

 

Next time you buy furniture or paint. Why not buy the ultra-lead based paint for 80% less than what everyone else buys? It features the same coverage per sq ft?

 

And the car he bought...why didn't he buy the $600USD car that India was selling and getting popular a while back? It holds gas and goes places?

 

Yeah, a 500W PSU isn't needed in the mind of a software person. He is right. But in terms of hardware, many people buy larger PSU's because it is actually cheaper to buy a 700W mediocre PSU than a very well done 450W PSU. You need to account for load, degredation of performance over time, part quality, Amps on the rails, multi-rail or single, and everything else.

 

In a software person's mind. You calculate the estimated full load power draw of a computer rig and boom. That is what you buy. In a real hardware buyers mind. They know that PSU's in general and en mass, aren't built like that, hence why they are so cheap comparatively to the rest of the rig. A 450W Dynex made PSU that cost $10 is NOT going to be able to power a system that, on load, uses 420W most likely. Most cheap PSU's can't actually handle 100% load. This is a pretty frequent test that PC reviewers for PSU's do. Give it 100% load and above and see if it trips, fries or whatever.

 

The cheap PSU's almost always fry and pop rather than safely just trip and reset. 

 

Guess what is the next step protecting a kilo-buck worth of computer equipment? Your computer grounding kinda (a bit), the type of floor it may be on (depending on if you rubbed and moved your comptuer over carpet continuously before hand, this may of course exxacerbate the damage), your motherboards built in (or not) surge protection feature, and the general tolerance of computer parts to static electricity and spikes. And hey, let's throw in how humid your house is and how old your components are.

 

P.S: I'm just including everything I can think of for protection. Obviously the type of floor it is on can be debated, but it is just one of many factors regarding it.

 

 

TL;DR: There is a reason that you don't eat food from the garbage can. Chemically, it is the same thing. But you will kill yourself from saving a few bucks.

 

 

Ask your dad if he wants to drink from the local river from now on. His body 'should' have the tolerance to handle the load of infectants, pollutants, and other baddies in there right? And if that fails, there are the probable countermeasures that his body has right?

 

This is akin to putting a $20 PSU in a kilo-buck rig. 

post #5789 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatBeatsguy View Post
 

Okay, update on the PSU dilemma: my dad just came home, he ain't believing any of the schiit you guys said, arguing that the 550+W PSUs aren't important beacuse they never reach max load (although 80% is very close IMO). I don't believe him though. Anyway, let me run down the specs of the PSU I have for ya:

  • 20A at +3.3v and +5v
  • 37A at +12V
  • .5A at -12V
  • 3.0A at +5VSB

 

My sister's is about the same, at about 3A give or take. What should I look for in a PSU?

Your dad is a pretty smart man (even if he is a bit...frugal).

 

There's a lot of people on this forum with raging boners for high wattage PSU; even when they don't need them for the modest builds I see being posted.  I'll probably get hate replies for it, but it's awful true guys (and any gals).

 

I know that there's a lot of faith put into online power consumption calculators, but they are overly generous.  If you don't think so, go ahead a punch the below example into your favourite and see what PSU it says you need.  Even the one chosen by the manufacturer isn't in the efficient range.  If one is to rely on a generic calculator put together by someone they don't know from sources pulled from an unknown place...well it seems awful fishy to me.

 

Anandtech actually uses a Kill-a-watt device to measure the consumption, and it's rather surprising what you can find out just looking at their reviews.  The below parts listing draws all of 517 watts full bore.  And that's with a 375 watt gpu.  The GTX 770 is a 230 watt GPU.  There's 145 watts off the top, netting a consumption of 372 watts.  You are not going to be overclocking that Xeon, so it will stay at its normal 80 watts meaning some 78 watts saved; you're down to ~294 watts.  Power supply efficiency peaks in the 50-75% range; a 400-600 watt would give BEST efficiency, but really you can get away with a 350 watt supply.

 

Processor Intel Core i7-4770K
(4x3.5GHz, Turbo to 3.9GHz, Overclocked to 4.2GHz, 22nm, 8MB L3, 84W)
Motherboard ASUS Z87-K
Memory 2x8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 (maximum 4x8GB)
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 7990 3GB x2
2x (2048 GCN cores, 1000MHz/6GHz core/RAM, 384-bit memory bus)
Hard Drive(s) Corsair Neutron 64GB SATA 6Gbps SSD

Toshiba DT01ACA 1TB SATA 6Gbps HDD
Optical Drive(s) HL-DT-ST UH12NS30 BD-ROM/DVD+-RW
Power Supply Cooler Master 800W Silent Pro Gold 80 Plus Gold PSU

 

I am a huge fan of Wintact.  Suppose it comes from my 2005 PC Power&Cooling 1KW (the first 1000 watt psu!).  Of course that was used to build a dual socket 939 dual core Opteron system with a 5 drive RAID-5 ultrawide SCSI array, RAID 0 dual drive Raptor array, 4 drive RAID 5 SATA array, a massive (for the time) 12GB of ECC DDR RAM, and a 7900GT SLI (had to save money somewhere).  Never had it hooked up to a Kill-a-Watt, but the PSU has outlived all of the above mentioned items except for some of the now very small SATA drives.  Still in use and still being underutilised with the box's spiritual successor.  But definitely not needed.  Oh, and the Delta fan was changed out; although I occasionally plug it in and scare the cat.

 

**edit**

The dirty secret is that most manufacturers don't make their own PSU.  If you get recommended a brand of PSU, check this page and find the ODM.  Being in China, you could most likely purchase the exact same power supply as recommended for a lot cheaper than what a sticker'd model would cost you.


Edited by lostinthesauce - 6/4/14 at 9:24am
post #5790 of 9059
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

Your fathers logic isn't wrong.

 

But next time your dad goes shopping, ask him why he doesn't take your dinner groceries from the dumpster. They both feature comparable amount of nutrients and calorie intake in them?

 

Next time you buy furniture or paint. Why not buy the ultra-lead based paint for 80% less than what everyone else buys? It features the same coverage per sq ft?

 

And the car he bought...why didn't he buy the $600USD car that India was selling and getting popular a while back? It holds gas and goes places?

 

Yeah, a 500W PSU isn't needed in the mind of a software person. He is right. But in terms of hardware, many people buy larger PSU's because it is actually cheaper to buy a 700W mediocre PSU than a very well done 450W PSU. You need to account for load, degredation of performance over time, part quality, Amps on the rails, multi-rail or single, and everything else.

 

In a software person's mind. You calculate the estimated full load power draw of a computer rig and boom. That is what you buy. In a real hardware buyers mind. They know that PSU's in general and en mass, aren't built like that, hence why they are so cheap comparatively to the rest of the rig. A 450W Dynex made PSU that cost $10 is NOT going to be able to power a system that, on load, uses 420W most likely. Most cheap PSU's can't actually handle 100% load. This is a pretty frequent test that PC reviewers for PSU's do. Give it 100% load and above and see if it trips, fries or whatever.

 

The cheap PSU's almost always fry and pop rather than safely just trip and reset. 

 

Guess what is the next step protecting a kilo-buck worth of computer equipment? Your computer grounding kinda (a bit), the type of floor it may be on (depending on if you rubbed and moved your comptuer over carpet continuously before hand, this may of course exxacerbate the damage), your motherboards built in (or not) surge protection feature, and the general tolerance of computer parts to static electricity and spikes. And hey, let's throw in how humid your house is and how old your components are.

 

P.S: I'm just including everything I can think of for protection. Obviously the type of floor it is on can be debated, but it is just one of many factors regarding it.

 

 

TL;DR: There is a reason that you don't eat food from the garbage can. Chemically, it is the same thing. But you will kill yourself from saving a few bucks.

 

 

Ask your dad if he wants to drink from the local river from now on. His body 'should' have the tolerance to handle the load of infectants, pollutants, and other baddies in there right? And if that fails, there are the probable countermeasures that his body has right?

 

This is akin to putting a $20 PSU in a kilo-buck rig. 

Those questions are kinda offensive and almost snobbish, IMO. But it makes sense and is really funny. :D Thanks.

At least you got to convince my dad when I read your TL;DR statement. He's gonna buy an Antec 500W PSU now for about $75. Yazen said Antecs work fine, so I'm gonna take his advice. Seasonic just seems too...expensive.

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