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Sennheiser MOMENTUM Review - Page 196

post #2926 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post


I'd say you are almost there, I am pondering selling my car and getting Invicta biggrin.gif

I miss my 1985 Mustang GT. That was the last year they had a 4 Barrel Holly Carb. The Carb was so big that if you took off the air cleaner you could put your head in it, like in a Lion's mouth. I spent too much money on tires, especially after the upgrade to the camshaft, etc.

post #2927 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

I miss my 1985 Mustang GT. That was the last year they had a 4 Barrel Holly Carb. The Carb was so big that if you took off the air cleaner you could put your head in it, like in a Lion's mouth. I spent too much money on tires, especially after the upgrade to the camshaft, etc.

Ohhh, I had an '01 Eclipse for few years... I miss it as well... Especially it's 3 liter V6... But I wish I had your Mustang biggrin.gif
post #2928 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

I miss my 1985 Mustang GT. That was the last year they had a 4 Barrel Holly Carb. The Carb was so big that if you took off the air cleaner you could put your head in it, like in a Lion's mouth. I spent too much money on tires, especially after the upgrade to the camshaft, etc.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post


Ohhh, I had an '01 Eclipse for few years... I miss it as well... Especially it's 3 liter V6... But I wish I had your Mustang biggrin.gif

I could break the tires loose when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. If I was in a hurry I'd skip 3rd and keep moving up the revs and shift into 4th. I wish I still had my Mustang.:D  But after over 150K miles driving like I was at the track at Talladega Superspeedway, she lost her enthusiasm and began belching black smoke. RIP.

post #2929 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post

I just got this upgrade cable for Momentum. I believe I hear difference in bass region, which may be understood as this cable is thicker than stock one, so less energy is wasted. However it might be placebo. Anyways I like the looks of it and the fact I paid for it really next to nothing!

 

I use the same upgrade cable for the Sennheiser momentum and I have found that while it is a thicker design it is also more microphonic and less flexible than the stock cable. Also it seems to use only 2 poles on the 2.5mm connector versus the stock 3 poles on the original 2.5mm connector. I have also found that it requires a certain way for it to be inserted for it to have sound in both channels and doesn't lock as well as the original connector. In fact both the replacement and the silver replacement have that same design flaw and in that aspect the stock cable is actually the best for mobility and flexibility.

 

I haven't noted any differences in sound quality when I swapped out the cables. It has a nice gold-plated connector and a nice termination but it doesn't sound quality. It is likely a placebo effect. 

post #2930 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordo Ab Chao View Post
 

 

I use the same upgrade cable for the Sennheiser momentum and I have found that while it is a thicker design it is also more microphonic and less flexible than the stock cable. Also it seems to use only 2 poles on the 2.5mm connector versus the stock 3 poles on the original 2.5mm connector. I have also found that it requires a certain way for it to be inserted for it to have sound in both channels and doesn't lock as well as the original connector. In fact both the replacement and the silver replacement have that same design flaw and in that aspect the stock cable is actually the best for mobility and flexibility.

 

I haven't noted any differences in sound quality when I swapped out the cables. It has a nice gold-plated connector and a nice termination but it doesn't sound quality. It is likely a placebo effect. 

Two poles? At the very least you need 3, L, R and Gnd. Unless you meant that it's a TRS instead of the stock TRRS plug?

post #2931 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Two poles? At the very least you need 3, L, R and Gnd. Unless you meant that it's a TRS instead of the stock TRRS plug?

 

No it's a TRS design but it only has two poles/rings compared to the stock TRRS 2.5mm plug which has 3 poles/rings. You can see here:

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNTMy/z/PuQAAOxyXDhSmMhq/$_57.JPG

 

(Top 2.5mm is Stock , Bottom 2.5mm is Custom)


Edited by Ordo Ab Chao - 2/9/14 at 4:27pm
post #2932 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post
 

Two poles? At the very least you need 3, L, R and Gnd. Unless you meant that it's a TRS instead of the stock TRRS plug?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordo Ab Chao View Post
 

 

No it's a TRS design but it only has two poles/rings compared to the stock TRRS 2.5mm plug which has 3 poles/rings. You can see here:

 

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNTMy/z/PuQAAOxyXDhSmMhq/$_57.JPG

 

(Top 2.5mm is Stock , Bottom 2.5mm is Custom)

OK, you got me curious. I took off my stock cable and measured it with a meter, The stock cable has four wires with each channel having a separate ground. The wires from the sleeve and ring closest to the sleeve meet at the sleeve at the plug that goes to the amp. This is done to minimize crosstalk in the cable due to the resistance of the wire in the cable should a single wire be used, which Sennheiser didn't do. Hopefully the wire in your cable is much thicker, lower resistance, and will not have any such issues. These are not high impedance cans so to share the ground lead the wire must have a very low resistance. Sennheiser knows what they are doing.

post #2933 of 3316
I have no idea what is inside of Momentum original cable, but take a quick look at this picture:



So I can clearly tell what is inside of HD570 cable. It contains inside three stranded cables, and each single strand! is covered in isolation paint. On the box it says it is Kevlar reinforced OFC cable. Sounds great doesn't it? Well, not for me at least! That paint can be easily scratched and you can potentially get short circuit. Also if you play too much with cable, these strands may break and you will get different resistance of left and right cables. While cables for left and right should be identical (otherwise you will get imbalance), the ground cable should have twice as many strands, which is not the case here - ground is (at least as far as I can see with my eyes) identical as left or right.

The HD570 are higher impedance headphones, but their cable is thicker than cable of Momentum, however it is also longer. Also on the Momentum's box I don't remember any mention of Kevlar or OFC.

If you read this forum you will find people replacing their cables for more expensive models like HD650. So if you take all that into account you probably should not assume that stock Momentum cable is all these headphones would ever need. For me the replacement cable is nice alternative, because it is longer, and thus I can stretch on the couch when listening to the music from my laptop. With the original cable I would have to bend over my laptop...
post #2934 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post

I have no idea what is inside of Momentum original cable, but take a quick look at this picture:



So I can clearly tell what is inside of HD570 cable. It contains inside three stranded cables, and each single strand! is covered in isolation paint. On the box it says it is Kevlar reinforced OFC cable. Sounds great doesn't it? Well, not for me at least! That paint can be easily scratched and you can potentially get short circuit. Also if you play too much with cable, these strands may break and you will get different resistance of left and right cables. While cables for left and right should be identical (otherwise you will get imbalance), the ground cable should have twice as many strands, which is not the case here - ground is (at least as far as I can see with my eyes) identical as left or right.

The HD570 are higher impedance headphones, but their cable is thicker than cable of Momentum, however it is also longer. Also on the Momentum's box I don't remember any mention of Kevlar or OFC.

If you read this forum you will find people replacing their cables for more expensive models like HD650. So if you take all that into account you probably should not assume that stock Momentum cable is all these headphones would ever need. For me the replacement cable is nice alternative, because it is longer, and thus I can stretch on the couch when listening to the music from my laptop. With the original cable I would have to bend over my laptop...

By having a single ground return, rather than two separate ground wires you get an audio type of voltage drop to the true ground from each channel that mixes across to the other channel which reduces the separation, increases crosstalk. That's why the cables in the HD600 and HD650 have separate ground wires for L and R. The momentum does the same which is why the stock cable has a TRRS connector at the cans. That's what I measured yesterday and posted. The last Ring and the Sleeve serve as separate ground returns. Using a TRS cable shorts the last Ring to the Sleeve and allows the sharing of the one return lead, which is not desirable.

post #2935 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

By having a single ground return, rather than two separate ground wires you get an audio type of voltage drop to the true ground from each channel that mixes across to the other channel which reduces the separation, increases crosstalk. That's why the cables in the HD600 and HD650 have separate ground wires for L and R. The momentum does the same which is why the stock cable has a TRRS connector at the cans. That's what I measured yesterday and posted. The last Ring and the Sleeve serve as separate ground returns. Using a TRS cable shorts the last Ring to the Sleeve and allows the sharing of the one return lead, which is not desirable.

Tell me because I'm curious, what were the values in ohms that you have measured?
post #2936 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post


Tell me because I'm curious, what were the values in ohms that you have measured?

About 1.1 Ohms per lead. If I remember the impedance is 18 Ohms, so sharing a common lead for the ground of each channel would have been a bad idea (didn't do the math, but that's a gut feeling).


Edited by StanD - 2/10/14 at 2:06pm
post #2937 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

About 1.1 Ohms per lead. If I remember the impedance is 18 Ohms, so sharing a common lead for the ground of each channel would have been a bad idea (didn't do the math, but that's a gut feeling).

So from what you say all resistances you measured were 1.1 Ohm and this is enough for you to conclude that there are four cables. That is some very interesting theory. If I were to confirm that there are four cables, I would measure resistance between grounds both on the 2.5mm TRRS jack and compare it with resistance between one of the grounds on 2.5mm TRRS and single ground on 3.5mm jack. Did you do that measurement? If so what were the resistances you have measured? Otherwise what you say is b****t.


Just to be clear I am talking about original cable without volume controls. Also, the headphone side jack on the on the cable is indeed 4 contact 2.5mm TRRS, but the socket in the headphone not necessarily. You probably never seen this topic
post #2938 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by koolas View Post


So from what you say all resistances you measured were 1.1 Ohm and this is enough for you to conclude that there are four cables. That is some very interesting theory. If I were to confirm that there are four cables, I would measure resistance between grounds both on the 2.5mm TRRS jack and compare it with resistance between one of the grounds on 2.5mm TRRS and single ground on 3.5mm jack. Did you do that measurement? If so what were the resistances you have measured? Otherwise what you say is b****t.


Just to be clear I am talking about original cable without volume controls. Also, the headphone side jack on the on the cable is indeed 4 contact 2.5mm TRRS, but the socket in the headphone not necessarily. You probably never seen this topic

I use the cable without the iDevice remote/microphone.

The plug at the amp side is a TRS where Sleeve is ground. At the Headphone side the resistance between either the Sleeve or Ring nearest the Sleeve to the Sleeve (ground) at the amp side is 1.1 Ohms. The resistance between the Sleeve and Ring nearest the Sleeve at the headphone side is 2.2 Ohms. I am an EE, this is a simple thing to me, I speaketh not b****t :mad:

post #2939 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by StanD View Post

I use the cable without the iDevice remote/microphone.
The plug at the amp side is a TRS where Sleeve is ground. At the Headphone side the resistance between either the Sleeve or Ring nearest the Sleeve to the Sleeve (ground) at the amp side is 1.1 Ohms. The resistance between the Sleeve and Ring nearest the Sleeve at the headphone side is 2.2 Ohms. I am an EE, this is a simple thing to me, I speaketh not b****t mad.gif

So you measured 2.2Ohm and 1.1Ohm, that would confirm that cable has four inside. So if socket on the headphone was TRRS then making balanced cable should be simpler than that mod. I still wonder why did he have to solder wires instead of just making new cable...
post #2940 of 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoulon View Post

Anyone have any tips to improve comfort? these hurt my ears so much. Whatever Quality control guy approved these must of got fired because the size of the "Over-Ear" editions, are fairly not over ear. I have a small head with kinda small ears imo. so these earcups are just why? Not trying to stereotype or anything but don't germans usually have more developed and larger ears than the common american?

But anyway, they sound too liking to replace em with other cans before trying to improve comfort. Any recommendations?

Can you just detach the ear cushion and replace one? Just like what V-moda do.
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