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What is the sound quality of iPhone, iPad, iPod (Touch)? - Page 9

post #121 of 148

Bigshot, with the iPhone 5, the line-out uses a separate DAC in the adapter, hence my question if that adapter sustains the sound quality normally attributed to an iPhone line-out.   If not, the adapter line-out + AMP may be inferior to a better off-board DAC + amp.  Without being able to hear any of these devices first, and almost every review being "NIGHT AND DAY!", I thought I would ask on this sub-forum as people seem a bit more....fact driven.  As for loudness of the headphone out, I do find on some of the bigger headphones to sound "better" through the Tomahawk.

post #122 of 148
I just looked at that lightning adaptor. It looks like it just outputs to HDMI or USB. Both of those would require an external DAC. The difference in sound quality is going to be negligible. If I had an iPhone 5, I would just use the headphone out and amp it if my headphones required it. If the volume got high enough without an amp, I'd just plug in direct. Audiophiles who value complexity might think differently than me.
post #123 of 148
IMO, the sound from amping from the DAC (wolfson wm8533) in the lightning adapter sounds better than amping from the headphone out. I could hear an improvement in soundstage and instrument separation. The sound also sounded more natural (that from the iphone 5 sounded "digital" to me).
Edited by araragikoyomi - 4/30/13 at 4:03am
post #124 of 148

I'm likely upgrading to either an iphone 5 or 5S (depending upon when it's available). I have a fiio E6 already. Will the E6 pair well with the iphone 5?

post #125 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

I just looked at that lightning adaptor. It looks like it just outputs to HDMI or USB. Both of those would require an external DAC. The difference in sound quality is going to be negligible. If I had an iPhone 5, I would just use the headphone out and amp it if my headphones required it. If the volume got high enough without an amp, I'd just plug in direct. Audiophiles who value complexity might think differently than me.

I didn't notice any change in sound due to the lightning adapter. 

 

But the lightning adapter is still a really good idea. It's somewhat smaller and thinner than the previous adapter, and it makes for slimmer devices like the Shuffle, Nano, and Touch. I'd like to think there's an improvement in sync times, but who knows?

post #126 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by poikkeus View Post

I didn't notice any change in sound due to the lightning adapter. 

 

But the lightning adapter is still a really good idea. It's somewhat smaller and thinner than the previous adapter, and it makes for slimmer devices like the Shuffle, Nano, and Touch. I'd like to think there's an improvement in sync times, but who knows?

 

Except the cable has a tendency to break.  Read reviews after buying my iPad 4 64GB a couple of weeks ago and apparently lots of people are having problems with it breaking on them.  Even before I read the reviews I was a bit nervous as the setup seems a little fragile.

post #127 of 148

I'm having a really tough time trying to figure out exactly how a portable USB-DAC could be such an improvement over the iPods original sound. Might be placebo, but I've tried one out, and couldn't hear much of an audible difference, other than some colouration to the sound. Is there any RMAA results that can prove this wrong?

post #128 of 148

This iPhone 5s data might be of interest to some of you. This is for a Sprint model, A1453 (ME356LL/A).

 

a. Impulse response

 

 

b. Maximum volume 0 dBFS sine

 

 

c. Maximum volume, one channel with 16.2 ohm load

 

 

d. Maximum volume, both channels with 16.2-ohm load

 

 

e. Volume control one click down from maximum

 

 

f. Volume control one click down from maximum, both channels with 16.2-ohm load

 

 

g. Onset of clipping, both channels with 16.2-ohm load

 

 

What else can we guess from this info?

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=693*16.2%2F%28R%2B16.2%29%3D597

 

Volume control at two clicks down, into 15.1 ohms, both channels:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=491*15.1%2F%28R%2B15.1%29%3D421

 

 

Edit: Corrected the model number, changed the captions


Edited by yuriv - 10/7/13 at 1:41am
post #129 of 148

You have two times "with 16.2 ohm load". A typo?

post #130 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post
 

You have two times "with 16.2 ohm load". A typo?

 

I edited the post. I hope it's clearer now.

post #131 of 148
Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriv View Post

 

a. Impulse response

 

Cirrus Logic DAC :normal_smile : Perhaps similar to other recent iDevices, and the MacBook Air reviewed at a certain blog.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriv View Post

 

d. Maximum volume, both channels with 16.2-ohm load

 

There is some interesting "fuzz" on the clipping. Could it indicate a stability problem (the MacBook Air mentioned above was prone to oscillation in the test), or does it come from the power supply rails (e.g. the negative one is created with a charge pump) ?


Edited by stv014 - 10/7/13 at 10:13am
post #132 of 148

Up. Very relevant to my case conversation.

 

How aboutAudio-Technica ATH-W5000 with Ipod classic 7gen or Iphone? Would it be sufficient for these headphones? Would I need additional amp? 

 

I enjoyed My ipod with HD595 but the sound was a bit low. If I need amp I would like to listen to music with phone to avoid having player in my pockets.

post #133 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriv View Post

 

a. Impulse response

 

Cirrus Logic DAC :normal_smile : Perhaps similar to other recent iDevices, and the MacBook Air reviewed at a certain blog.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriv View Post

 

d. Maximum volume, both channels with 16.2-ohm load

 

There is some interesting "fuzz" on the clipping. Could it indicate a stability problem (the MacBook Air mentioned above was prone to oscillation in the test), or does it come from the power supply rails (e.g. the negative one is created with a charge pump) ?


Looks pretty linear for such a device to me; introduces a small bit of distortion when driven to levels that would make a cow's head explode.

At least, that's my interpretation.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
post #134 of 148

I am a hard-core audio enthusiast and have been through a lot of equipment both high end and consumer average.  I service smartphones full time and study electrical engineering and audio processing.  Unlike most Audio experts, I understand voltage, current, and impedance. I have not thoroughly tested the audio performance of all the Apple devices therefore I cannot speak for most iDevices.

 

I have had a new iPhone 5s for about 4 months now and I am very impressed with it's audio performance.  I have a collection of headphones, dac's, and a few CD players and I must say what comes out of the 3.5mm phone jack on my 5s is not the BEST I have ever heard in my life, but pretty damn close.  I have tested it on numerous headphones with familiar recordings along with some oscilloscopic tests and am thrilled with the results.  I have to say it's the most musically accurate smartphone to date.

 

I have 56GB of my cd collection ripped to ALAC on the device and originally planned to use it for on-the-go only, however, I find myself using it in my living room as well.

 

The output is 1VRMS and has an impedance of 4ish ohms.  It only drops about 7% with a 16ohm load connected (power hungry headphones) and can drive almost all of my headphones to tectonic levels with minimal distortion.  My Sennheiser HD-600's are high impedance (based on higher voltage) and require more than 1VRMS to get them to a "rocking out" level.  The iPhone 5s (based on low impedance headphones drawing more current) outputs enough voltage to drive them to a decent level with most music, which blows away almost every smartphone (and quite a few portable audio players) I have tested (except the HTC One M7 and M8) which are louder, but have higher distortion levels and a questionable frequency response.

 

The iPhone does down-sample and up-sample to 88200/24.  Contrary to popular belief, the deficiencies of this reproduction is far from audible to the human ear.  The dac chip in the device IS capable of 192000/24 and obviously 192000/24 is better, however the conversion to this requires more cpu usage in order to avoid conversion distortion than 44100/16 to 88200/24 since 88200/24 is exactly double 44100/16.  This can be done with minimal buffers and calculations per second while still maintaining optimal sound and avoiding the deficiencies of 44100/16 being doubly present.  The benefits of anything above this is pretty much inaudible.

 

In my opinion, the various deficiencies in analogue performance of different headphones and amplifiers, even those of high end ratings, should be questioned long before the listener should consider anything above 88200/24.

 

CD audio is a lot better than people think it is.  It has an extremely low noise floor and spectacular frequency response.  When played from a good CD player, the sound is audibly flawless. 

 

Ripping a CD to ALAC (Apple Lossless) or FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec) is just like ripping to .WAV except uses the same compression technology as a ZIP file therefore has the same advantage of smaller file size at deeper digital compression level that does not affect the audio stream.  Instead of us "extracting" or "un-ziping" these files and then playing them, the decoder/dac can "unzip" these files as it plays them resulting in the same PCM CD- Audio file we started with but a smaller file size as if it were a zip file.  iPhone 5s 64GB with a **** load of CD-Audio anyone??  ..I'm smiling :D

 

The iDevice's DAC takes this PCM format  and decodes it using twice the resolution (88200) and twice the bitrate (24 bit) This results in a transparent 44100/16 reproduction.

 

The problem we have in cases where Vinyl sounds better than CD (even though technically Vinyl had a wider frequency response) is where the CD version has been re-mastered.  Most re-mastering is not done correctly and uses compression and dynamic range limitation to flatten out the response of the recording which results in a ridiculously loud reproduction and poor dynamic range and audible clipping.  I believe this is to blame for the misconception of the quality of CD audio and why "music doesn't sound as good as it used to"

 

 

If I had 3 wishes, I would want $1,000,000 (duh), the best headphones of the year 2050 and a copy of "Night Visions" by Imagine Dragons - Mastered properly without the loudness war.

 

Ok, back on topic now........My conclusion is that there are portable audio devices out there that are superior to the iPhone/iPod.  However, if you need a portable audio player with superb sound AND a built-in phone, the new iPhone 5s (and without a doubt, the 5 and 4s as well) are definitely the way to go!


Edited by mdelaney1986 - 9/6/14 at 11:27pm
post #135 of 148

Why mess with perfection?

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