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AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition - Page 172

post #2566 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

Honestly, you should plan on spending at least $300 to beat the STX amplifier. It is actually pretty good, the only gripe with the stock opamps is they are a little bassy, and give off a good amount of distortion. Before you plan on buying other amplifiers, I'd wait and give a little time with the new headphones smily_headphones1.gif

Good stuff. Can you recommend good replacement opamps?
post #2567 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

Honestly, you should plan on spending at least $300 to beat the STX amplifier. It is actually pretty good, the only gripe with the stock opamps is they are a little bassy, and give off a good amount of distortion. Before you plan on buying other amplifiers, I'd wait and give a little time with the new headphones :)

 

Have you ever heard about O2 amplifier? O2 is way cleaner and precise than ST(X) amplifier or E09(K) which is basically the same design. I have owned both, I know what I am talking about. You cannot expect wonders from soundcard's integrated amplifier (or from Fiio's E09), especially not in terms of current output.

 

Annies are low impedance current hungry headphones. Of course, damping factor of 7 or so is not bad but for a total control of the headphones' drivers, you definitely need as low output impedance as possible. STX is not good enough in terms of current, and not even completely suitable in terms of impedance match. Once again, STX or E09K are ONLY suitable for high impedance headphones which don't require current but voltage.

 

Both O2 and Magni will work better... Both cost around 100USD. That said, I would invest few dollars extra into better adapter for O2 plus went for 1x gain, to get the very best performance.

 

I understand that you can have a different opinion... But please, back up your point of view somehow! Loudness is not equal quality...


Edited by RustA - 5/20/13 at 7:02pm
post #2568 of 3252
My bad rustA. I actually received my anniv. This afternoon, but haven't crack it opened it and it's sitting inside the closet. I'm a little nervous to listen to it being my first Akg 7XX to try, there's so many conflicting opinions in like or not. Just read Mahler review of the k702 and he seems to not like them. I'm also waiting to get a real good quit time to listen for the first time, plus after today I won't be able to listen to tem until next week since I won't be home. I've been prepping for them, haven't listen to a headphone for 4 days. biggrin.gif
Edited by soundeffect - 5/20/13 at 7:10pm
post #2569 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundeffect View Post

My bad rustA. I actually received my anniv. This afternoon, but haven't crack it opened it and it's sitting inside the closet. I'm a little nervous to listen to it being my first Akg 7XX to try, there's so many conflicting opinions in like or not. Just read Mahler review of the k702 and he seems to not like them. I'm also waiting to get a real good quit time to listen for the first time, plus after today I won't be able to listen to tem until next week since I won't be home. I've been prepping for them, haven't listen to a headphone for 4 days. biggrin.gif

 

David only heard K701/K702 as far as I know... K702 Anniversaries use completely different pads and for a lot of people, those are the best AKGs headphones released so far (even better than the legendary K1000!). A lot of folks mentioned that these are "K7xx finally done right". Several people who have experience with the highest models possible are satisfied with them...

 

Don't worry, just connect them to your Magni/Modi chain once you get enough time... I am sure you will like them unless you have some specific tastes in terms of sound signature / aspects.

 

I would like to see a measurement of Annies finally... Too much talk but nothing objective available!


Edited by RustA - 5/20/13 at 7:18pm
post #2570 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

David only heard K701/K702 as far as I know... K702 Anniversaries use completely different pads and for a lot of people, those are the best AKGs headphones released so far (even better than the legendary K1000!). A lot of folks mentioned that these are "K7xx finally done right". Several people who have experience with the highest models possible are satisfied with them...

 

Don't worry, just connect them to your Magni/Modi chain once you get enough time... I am sure you will like them unless you have some specific tastes in terms of sound signature / aspects.

 

I would like to see a measurement of Annies finally... Too much talk but nothing objective available!

 

Their are 3 different pads for K7XX family .

 

Earlier K70X => flat pads without memory foam 

With Q701 and former K70X => angled pads without memory foam .

K702 ANV and K712 => new flat pads with memory foam .  (and new headband without bumps) .

 

According to AKG themself the pads add 3db in low end . (well it's what marketing stuff say about K712 Pro) .

 

I think that K702 ANV / K712 or a K7XX  with memory foam pads in graph will show a similar curve to K7XX/Q701 but with improved low end and peraphs other minor change in the rest of the curve .

 

And it's more a mater of tastes than anything else . Difference beetween the 3 pads are audible but it's remain a K7XX . To each one their favorite pads .

 

I think you know allready this , but for some that don't know , can be usefull tongue.gif


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 5/20/13 at 8:17pm
post #2571 of 3252
Nobody has stated the anniv as being better than the K1000 tho...
post #2572 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

Nobody has stated the anniv as being better than the K1000 tho...
I don't mean to be overly negative as I know many people enjoy the annie. I find it to be good but not great. I've never heard the K1000 but given its legendary status, I doubt the Anni is anywhere near as good. The HD800 is way way better than the Anni to my ears.
post #2573 of 3252

Just got on to listening to them, pretty good so far and they are different from the HE400 in many ways.  For one, I forgot how light some of the other headphones are after listening to the HE400 for almost two months.  These are pretty light and the ear pads are more comfortable for sure than the HE400.  I didn't think the HE400 ear pad are uncomfortable, but after wearing these I can see what others are saying the HE400 velour pads are stiff.  I also appreciate the wire being not so stiff,fairly thinner, and also where the wire goes into the cups of the HE400 sometime sticks out and touches my shoulders.  What threw me off was I didn't expect these to have auto adjust arms.

 

The only complaint I have so far is the headband still not perfect as I can feel them on top of my head.  I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but when I touch the leather headband it doesn't seem to set flat on my head and I think it's because the headband leather is too stiff. Maybe I'm spoiled after trying out the Mad dogs headband. tongue.gif

 

joeq70,

 

not trying to be mean or anything, but the whole HD800 comment is kind of random.


Edited by soundeffect - 5/20/13 at 9:39pm
post #2574 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFGamescape View Post


Good stuff. Can you recommend good replacement opamps?

 

I'm currently running 2X LME49720 in the ompamp slots. If you haven't stumbled upon it yet, there's a novel of a thread covering modifications to the card. 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/4365

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Have you ever heard about O2 amplifier? O2 is way cleaner and precise than ST(X) amplifier or E09(K) which is basically the same design. I have owned both, I know what I am talking about. You cannot expect wonders from soundcard's integrated amplifier (or from Fiio's E09), especially not in terms of current output.

 

Annies are low impedance current hungry headphones. Of course, damping factor of 7 or so is not bad but for a total control of the headphones' drivers, you definitely need as low output impedance as possible. STX is not good enough in terms of current, and not even completely suitable in terms of impedance match. Once again, STX or E09K are ONLY suitable for high impedance headphones which don't require current but voltage.

 

Both O2 and Magni will work better... Both cost around 100USD. That said, I would invest few dollars extra into better adapter for O2 plus went for 1x gain, to get the very best performance.

 

I understand that you can have a different opinion... But please, back up your point of view somehow! Loudness is not equal quality...

 

I've heard quite a bit about the O2. On a few occasions I've gotten some long sit down sessions with it. It's a great amplifier, and definitely a bargain. It is a little difficult to call it a 'giant killer' as it is often purported to be. I don't think the K701 driver is really a current hungry headphone. Yes, it needs a good chunk of voltage over IEMs or consumer line headphones, but I think synergy is much more important. 

 

The Magni and O2 working better could be up for debate. The K701s for a long long time have been more about synergy with an amplifier over just about anything else. The good bass bump the STX gives in stock form, may actually be just what the doctor ordered for the people who think these are just way too bass light.

 

My recommendation to Gamescape is: just plug in the headphones. Don't worry about your next purchase, the next thing to buy, and if you're giving them enough power. Just listen for awhile. If you think to yourself "these really don't sound right and they really need more power", then look into a budget unit like the Magni or O2. If you're instead thinking "I wonder if these would sound better with the Magni or O2", from my experience, I'd advise you to not get ahead of yourself. If anything I'd call the Magni and O2 a sidegrade. If you really want to step up the performance of the STX, save up and get a higher level amplifier. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

Nobody has stated the anniv as being better than the K1000 tho...

Nope, they just aren't. AKG by Harman isn't the same as the old AKG. They're just playing with plastic colors and pads, not really making a "statement" product like they used to. 

post #2575 of 3252

The bass of the K702 65th is pretty satisfying, I say I enjoy the bass of these more than the Mad Dog 3.0, more impact.


Edited by soundeffect - 5/20/13 at 10:31pm
post #2576 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFGamescape View Post

Ordered my Annies.  I currently have the Asus Xonar STX on my desktop and hoping that will be suffice to drive them.  I also ordered the Fiio E17 Alpen for my iPhone and understand it might be a little lackluster in driving the Annies with that setup in mind (E17 + iPhone).

 

Just to let you know FiiO is going to release E18 later this year.

post #2577 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

 

I'm currently running 2X LME49720 in the ompamp slots. If you haven't stumbled upon it yet, there's a novel of a thread covering modifications to the card. 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread/4365

 

 

I've heard quite a bit about the O2. On a few occasions I've gotten some long sit down sessions with it. It's a great amplifier, and definitely a bargain. It is a little difficult to call it a 'giant killer' as it is often purported to be. I don't think the K701 driver is really a current hungry headphone. Yes, it needs a good chunk of voltage over IEMs or consumer line headphones, but I think synergy is much more important. 

 

The Magni and O2 working better could be up for debate. The K701s for a long long time have been more about synergy with an amplifier over just about anything else. The good bass bump the STX gives in stock form, may actually be just what the doctor ordered for the people who think these are just way too bass light.

 

My recommendation to Gamescape is: just plug in the headphones. Don't worry about your next purchase, the next thing to buy, and if you're giving them enough power. Just listen for awhile. If you think to yourself "these really don't sound right and they really need more power", then look into a budget unit like the Magni or O2. If you're instead thinking "I wonder if these would sound better with the Magni or O2", from my experience, I'd advise you to not get ahead of yourself. If anything I'd call the Magni and O2 a sidegrade. If you really want to step up the performance of the STX, save up and get a higher level amplifier.

 

K7xx are tricky to drive due to their low sensitivity + low impedance which is quite unusual combination for a headphone... Also, their impedance is rising through treble section which also means one has to be careful with correct amplification, at least if wanting to get them sound "as they have been manufactured to sound". That said, they are certainly not as difficult to drive as some orthos like HE-6!

 

I understand that you find STX's integrated amplifier good enough but IMHO it isn't - it's definitely not hiss and distortion free, nowhere near. From the technical perspective, not ideal for low impedance headphones. It does have its shielding but still that card is being powered by and is located inside your computer and that's also far from ideal. Of course, that doesn't mean that you cannot enjoy listening with the card... But I am really surprised that you find STX's amplification section to be worth 300USD, especially today.

 

Synergy is one thing, clarity and accuracy due to quality power is another. Both are important, at least if the listener cares. I would personally purchase a desktop amplififer immediately and never bother with ST(X) amp again but if one is very short on budget, then almost every amplifier can do the job.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

Nobody has stated the anniv as being better than the K1000 tho...

 

I haven't heard K1000 or Annies but I know about at least two people who said to prefer Anniversaries and/or all K7xx models over K1000 in this thread... This is also what one person I know personally thinks (mainly because he does not find K1000 to be any special)... That said, it's not as important, everything is subjective and matter of preference, of course! I personally always wanted to hear K1000... I guess I would like them more due to their design.


Edited by RustA - 5/20/13 at 11:05pm
post #2578 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Yes... Plug some sensitive earbuds/IEMs to your O2 and raise the volume to the max (this should work with sensitive full-size headphones as well). If you hear hiss, you don't have 1x gain on any of both gain positions. Or, you can have a look inside your O2 if there are gain resistors on both positions. (I understand that you could be confused about where to look for them, I can certainly send you an image).

 

Btw, I would advise to go from 2.5x / 6x to 2.5x / 1x configuration. You need to cut the pair of 6x gain resistors (after you open O2, it's a question of 3 seconds to do so). I don't think you will ever need 6x gain. That said, if you don't believe me, ask in dedicated O2 forum for advice. I certainly don't want you to be worried about your amp!

 

I must stress that I have owned O2 and ODAC twice, used different transformers and tweaks... I am kind of a objective2 veteran :-D

On my Hifiman RE0, there's no hiss at the low gain setting and hiss on the high gain.  So does that mean I have 1x and 2x?

post #2579 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

K7xx are tricky to drive due to their low sensitivity + low impedance which is quite unusual combination for a headphone... Also, their impedance is rising through treble section which also means one has to be careful with correct amplification, at least if wanting to get them sound "as they have been manufactured to sound". That said, they are certainly not as difficult to drive as some orthos like HE-6!

 

I understand that you find STX's integrated amplifier good enough but IMHO it isn't - it's definitely not hiss and distortion free, nowhere near. From the technical perspective, not ideal for low impedance headphones. It does have its shielding but still that card is being powered by and is located inside your computer and that's also far from ideal. Of course, that doesn't mean that you cannot enjoy listening with the card... But I am really surprised that you find STX's amplification section to be worth 300USD, especially today.

 

Synergy is one thing, clarity and accuracy due to quality power is another. Both are important, at least if the listener cares. I would personally purchase a desktop amplififer immediately and never bother with ST(X) amp again but if one is very short on budget, then almost every amplifier can do the job.

 

 

It all comes down to opinions. I've been up and down the chain of headphones, amplifiers and DACs. What is "good enough" is a matter of opinion. If you just want to plug in some headphones, I think the STX does very well, all things considered.

 

I'm not saying the amplifier is worth 300, I'm saying that in order to beat the amplifier in the card to a point that really would make a buyer feel like they are getting an upgrade will probably run in the ballpark of $300. The STX is on the lower end of amplifiers, but IMO so is the O2. The O2 may be better in this application and we can sit and nit pick details about it. At the end of the day, you're telling someone to buy a Honda Civic over a Toyota Corolla. We're talking small differences.

post #2580 of 3252

I've been spending most of my recent listening time on the Annie to give it a fair shake on a variety of music and my two amps right now (Burson Soloist and HeadAmp GS-X MK2). It's still not exactly winning me over but it does sound pretty good overall. Although I'm sure most people probably use the Annie for acoustic-type music, I've been listening to various types of electronica and metal on mine to see how it fares and it's actually not that bad. The GS-X MK2 helps fill out bass quantity compared to the Soloist, which is a plus for electronica, and helps clear up the sound as well. It's pretty obvious to me that the GS-X MK2 is a great amp for the Annie - good enough that I'd recommend a Dynalo+-based amp for the Annie (which translates to either an upgraded GS-1 or the GS-X MK2). The Soloist isn't bad and clearly drives the Annie well too, it's just not quite as good as the GS-X MK2 and apparently lacks some power to properly drive the Annie (specifically its bass component).

 

And I probably would call the Annie the best K70x headphone so far - not to really say much by that sonically, but at least it's finally a K70x that's comfortable to wear for long sessions. tongue.gif

 

Btw, not that I'd really recommend the Annie for either electronica or metal. Those are just what I'm testing it on, for the sake of testing it out. I'd probably advise against the Annie for listeners of either of those genres. The artists I'm using are:

- Electronica: Front Line Assembly, Infected Mushroom, The Crystal Method, The Prodigy

- Metal: Diablo Swing Orchestra, Gojira, Helloween, In Flames, Megadeth


Edited by Asr - 5/21/13 at 12:19am
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