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AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition - Page 107

post #1591 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

I swapped a K601 headband on a K701 a long long time ago. It took about 15 minutes total. Pretty easy task overall.

 

Are there any instructions anywhere for doing this?

post #1592 of 3252

Thanks chicolom, good write.

 

And yes, the Anniversary pads create extra warmth and I believe it can be an issue during warmer summer days / nights.

 

My advise, if you like, give them good burn in, around 300 hours will be enough to get the final impression, I believe. Right now, I am in that process to, so, will be on hold until then.

 

THX

post #1593 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

 

Whoo boy...I already have about two and a half pages of notes!

 

Okay.

 

Well, first off I will say that as far as I can tell, the sonic changes are due to the pads.  I've A-Bed back and forth between each can with their stock pads, A-Bed back and forth with each can wearing the latters pads, and A-Bed back and forth with the same can switching pads.  It's a little hard to due the last one, as I have to pause and unlock all the bayonet locks then swap pads and relock them (usually having to reposition that little grey foam that likes to fall out).  But, again from what I've heard so far the Q701 with 65 pads sounds like the 65 and vice a versa. 

 

So the good news is I think you can mod any x70x into anniversaries by using their pads.  You can also "own" both types of sounds if you own both pairs of pads.  No need to keep two headphone around..

 

The bad news is, I don't know which can I like more!  They both do some things well. 

 

Q701:

Faster sounding, more air, cleaner separation, soundstage is more laid-back, greater impression of depth and distance in the soundstage.

 

K702 65:

More "Musical", lush, smoother, more body, slightly darker treble, less air, soundstage gives impression of being more forward and intimate.

 

As was ruled out earlier in the thread, the changes aren't just limited to bass, nor are they just limited to bass mids and treble.  I also detect some soundstage changes as well.

 

This is where the Q701 still appears to have an advantage.  It's main strong points are the soundstage size, sound separation, and air.  The K702 65s strong points are the thicker bass (obviously), as well as the rest of the balance being a bit thicker and weightier, more "musical" as head-fi would call it. It's a little warmer and a little darker.  BUT, the soundstage sounds a bit more intimate and upfront, whereas the Q701 still sounds more laid back and spacious.

 

My first thoughts after hearing the soundstage were, "OK, so the bass isn't "free."  Those flatter non-angled pads are compressing the soundstage."  I'm not 100% positive though, because I heard the anniversaries throw a couple sounds out pretty far, at a similar distance as the Q701.  So now I'm running some more tests to try and further disect the soundstage differences to see how much of the soundstage differences come from a byproduct of the weightier sound, and how much of it comes from actual having flatter pads and what role they are playing. 

 

I don't want to conflate a weightier sound with a smaller soundstage, because that's the impression you get at first listen (similar to how some people say the Q701 soundstage is smaller than older x70x).  Possibly the soundstage sizes are similar, but the 65s have more sound trying to fill up the same space (soundstage size) or even slightly smaller, which means you can't have as clear separation as some sounds start to bump into each other.

 

Or possibly the flatter pads are indeed a bit detrimental to the soundstage, and pan the sounds harder to the sides and decrease the depth.  Still working on analyzing that.  The flattest part of the Q701 pad is just about the same size as the entire anniversary pad.

 

I also think the anniversary sounds more like a modded Q701 then a universally "improved" Q701.  And judging by the pad swapping I did, it may in fact be primarily a pad "mod".  I wouldn't expect a pad mod to completely improve a headphone without some side effects though.

 

I think it's safe to say that the anniversary's balance is more general-purpose, where usually the x70x gets recommend more for specific genres (usually instrumental stuff) then others.  If your someone who digs the x70x but listens more outside of it's usual recommended genres, then the anniversary may be a better choice.  If you mainly listen to the "typical" x70x genres though, the original x70x might be better as that extra air and soundstage separation (and size?) is pretty important to those genres.

 

Still working on it...

 

Also, the anniversaries are quite sexy looking.

 

BTW, my initial impressions share some similarities to Blackmore's here >

http://www.head-fi.org/t/626971/akg-k702-65th-anniversary-edition/1515#post_9193460

 

Also this quote from Preproman from the previous page is pretty accurate "Q701 = extended treble but not harsh clear crisp balanced with more air.  65th.  Treble rolled off a tab bit but not in a bad way. More bass presence and the mids are more lush.  Still very balanced with less air"

 

 

 

 

Exactly !!!!!

post #1594 of 3252

I think Chicolom is on point! Awesome read which pretty much sums everything up.

post #1595 of 3252
This is exactly why I was waiting on his impressions. biggrin.gif

Chico, wait until you try it for gaming. I think Dolby Headphone will make the soundstage differences not as different as you may think. The Annie thows a pretty large soundstage for gaming and movies. Maybe even more natural than the Qs which are undoubtedly, and majestically huge, but not the most natural.

So...assuming you havent owned a K701/2/Q, you can get one for the $250 range, plus whatever the Annie pads cost, and get that new, Annie sound. That saves you about $100, with the understanding that the headband might be torturous. Take me for example, even if I didn't have a problem with the bumps, the headband was at it's limit on my head. The Annie headband has a looot more space for bigger heads.

The Annie's headband is a pretty substantial upgrade in comfort. Of course, you can also spend the extra cash for a K601 headband and mod it on, but I've seen threads on the process, and it doesn't look simple.

Non-Annie + Annie pads + K601 headband will put you near the cost of just getting an Annie when they are at a good price, so, not sure its a logical combo unless you really want the classic look, or really good with DIY. Even then, I think its probably better for those who currently own non-Annies to try the modding, rather than those who have nothing and are buying new. I would skip the hassle and just go for the Annies at that point.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 2/27/13 at 2:08am
post #1596 of 3252

Maybe its just the way these pics been made, but do they look angle to you?

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/652773/akg-k701

 

THX

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2enty3 View Post

I'm pretty sure all K701's have had angled pads from day one.

 

That said, Mine are angled as well.

post #1597 of 3252

They look like it to me. Hard to tell from the photos, since the thicker part would be at the back, and there's not a good shot comparing it to the front. But they look pretty thick in the back to me.

post #1598 of 3252

Whats the correct position of the pads, well, lets say, stock placing. My are like thick up and thin down, like this  |/ \|

 

THX

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougr33 View Post

They look like it to me. Hard to tell from the photos, since the thicker part would be at the back, and there's not a good shot comparing it to the front. But they look pretty thick in the back to me.

post #1599 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

 

Q701:

Faster sounding, more air, cleaner separation, soundstage is more laid-back, greater impression of depth and distance in the soundstage.

 

K702 65:

More "Musical", lush, smoother, more body, slightly darker treble, less air, soundstage gives impression of being more forward and intimate.

 

As was ruled out earlier in the thread, the changes aren't just limited to bass, nor are they just limited to bass mids and treble.  I also detect some soundstage changes as well.


 

 

Here's something to try...

 

See what the Q701 with 65th pads sounds like with the 65ths outer grill (no foam) installed. Maybe it will sound just VERY slightly better when it comes to the soundstage. Maybe even try it without a grill. I know my old K601 got warmer/bassier with no grill, but my Q701 did not..

 

I wonder if the 65th sounds worse with the Q701s foam and grill installed (using stock pads). You'd think so, but maybe even better? Highly unlikely.

 

Unlike most, I think the Q701s grill an foam alter the sound very very slightly.

 

The biggest difference was when I didn't use any foam inside the Q701. Sounded closer to a K702, but not really close at all.

 

If the 65th sounded like an open DJ100 I'd buy it in about two seconds..wait, I forgot I have the pads on order. Out of stock until early March. Never has been in stock at all..

 

 

EDIT: So I imagine that with just the K702 and Annie pads you can't get the 65th sound. No confirmation yet I guess if some of the late 2012 or 2013 K702s sound identical to the Q701. Highly unlikely..

It still is baffling why the K702 sounds so much different than the Q701.

That is even more confusing than the Q701 vs the 65th.

 

Could be that AKG first used some updated drivers in the Q701s and then started putting them in the K702.


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/27/13 at 9:00am
post #1600 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Whats the correct position of the pads, well, lets say, stock placing. My are like thick up and thin down, like this  |/ \|

 

THX


Thickest part should be totally facing the back and not up or down. That's the way mine have been...

 

K701 pads go flat after a lot of use. I've had some that are so flat you can't tell which side is angled.

 

Maybe this is why some claim the older K701s sound different normal_smile%20.gif

post #1601 of 3252

Yeah the ones I've tested had thick parts facing back and thin parts facing front.

post #1602 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

 

My first thoughts after hearing the soundstage were, "OK, so the bass isn't "free."  Those flatter non-angled pads are compressing the soundstage."  I'm not 100% positive though, because I heard the anniversaries throw a couple sounds out pretty far, at a similar distance as the Q701.  So now I'm running some more tests to try and further disect the soundstage differences to see how much of the soundstage differences come from a byproduct of the weightier sound, and how much of it comes from actual having flatter pads and what role they are playing. 

 

I don't want to conflate a weightier sound with a smaller soundstage, because that's the impression you get at first listen (similar to how some people say the Q701 soundstage is smaller than older x70x).  Possibly the soundstage sizes are similar, but the 65s have more sound trying to fill up the same space (soundstage size) or even slightly smaller, which means you can't have as clear separation as some sounds start to bump into each other.

 

Or possibly the flatter pads are indeed a bit detrimental to the soundstage, and pan the sounds harder to the sides and decrease the depth.  Still working on analyzing that.  The flattest part of the Q701 pad is just about the same size as the entire anniversary pad.


 

 

My mind is probably playing tricks on me, but I always felt that imaging improved with flat pads and a warmer sound signature. Whenever I make my DJ100 more trebly, it's imaging worsens, but it's soundstage SEEMS larger. When I make it warmer with pads it's imaging IMPROVES. How is this possible? I'll never know. The K601 has better imaging than the Q701 and I think it's only due to have flat pads and maybe less treble.

 

It is amusing how when a headphone gets warmer your brain is thinking it has a smaller soundstage. I got this with the K702 vs the Q701 despite the drivers being the same.

 

I also think the HD-600/650 only have a smaller soundstage due to all that warmth and reduced treble. If you tune the sound on them slightly (by blocking air getting to the driver) it seems to improve. The HD-650's soundstage is perfect IMO with the ODAC. I even find it more accurate than the HD-598 (but not as large).

 

I don't think i'll ever figure out some of the things i'm hearing.

 

I listen to a lot of Jpop with female vocals so I imagine the 65th might be perfect for me (or it's pads). Q701 is good for this obviously, but memory foam pads would be nice. I doubt they'd compress at all on my head though since my Q701 has NO clamping force really.

 

My 100% perfect headphone is an open DJ100. I think a mix between an HD-650 and Q701 would be pretty close. Of course I'd need a little more present low-bass.

post #1603 of 3252

Have to say that I'm really curious what the 65th pads would do for a K701, K601 and K400.

K701 is a little different than the K702 since it uses different part#s for the pads and foam.

It's possible the K701 stock pads are slightly less bassy than q701/K702 pads. They seem much softer.

 

I bet the 65th pads would sound the best on the K400 or K701. Probably awful on the K601.

 

BTW I think flat pads without memory foam would never work on the Q701. It'd be too "shouty" without AKG using different materials.

 

AKG should hurry up and get a stock of these pads shipped to the USA! It's taking them forever.

 

 

 

I also wonder if there was a way to reduce the warmth of the 65th pads on the Q701. Kind of perfecting it's sound...

I doubt switching out the grills is enough..

 

Chicolom, can you try the Q701 with 65th pads without the driver foam? I bet this might sound even better. Or maybe make the lower mids too forward..

This should bring forward the treble a bit. Barely audible though..

 

If that's not enough to perfect the sound you can also try to swap grills.

 

Who knows..maybe some will prefer the 65th with no driver foam?

 

EDIT: My Q701 doesn't need any more warmth really, but it still might be kind of nice. I'd be afraid it'll sound too much like an HD-650 with a larger soundstage and clearer sound.


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/27/13 at 9:04am
post #1604 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

.....

 

AKG should hurry up and get a stock of these pads shipped to the USA! It's taking them forever.

 

Just got email from Frank/AKG.  He's asking for an update from Vienna, but thinks another 2-3 weeks!  I'll post more when he gets back to me.

post #1605 of 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougr33 View Post

Just got email from Frank/AKG.  He's asking for an update from Vienna, but thinks another 2-3 weeks!  I'll post more when he gets back to me.


Yeah i've had them ordered at the end of January I believe. Last week they told me that they'd probably be in stock the first week of March.

 

I'm glad they at least decided to offer replacement pads. It would be funny to have a $400-$500 headphone with no replacement pads made for it. Now I have to wonder how long the pads will be made...

 

Someone should send their pair in to Tyll (at Inner Fidelity) for measurements. I bet he'll say they sound the same as the K702 biggrin.gif Only kidding...(I think)

 

I would laugh if they measured the same as the Q701. I actually think headphones can sound very very different yet have the same measurements.

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