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AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition - Page 68

post #1006 of 3233

I'm hoping I get mine in a few days. I ordered from a seller who is in the same state so shouldn't take too long. My only AKG experience is the K501 and K601 and I liked both of them. Although these headphones will be around double the price of the K701/K702 or at least he used market I don't expect these to sound that much better. I'm guessing somewhere between the K701 and the HE500 level and hopefully closer to the HE500. However to be fair I haven't really read much on these headphones 

 

I don't really have anything to compare them to since I no longer own the AD2k. That would have been a better comparison than what I currently own. I have the HD800 and HE6 which are not going to be good comparisons and also own the HD25 but that's portable

post #1007 of 3233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xy3T6FrDP0&list=PL7B271D4B511CFD37

The bass on this track is very impressive on the Annie. I highly doubt the non-Annies can produce it as faithfully.


The question is though..which one is really accurate. I mean without being the person who actually made it, it's hard to know. I guess you could use like 5 other neutral headphones for reference.

 

Sometimes I listened to so many recordings on my Q701 and they're much different than how they sound on the KRK KNS-6400/8400 and K601. I think the K601 is mostly flat. I mean the Q701 is warmer and slightly bassier.

 

I know it may shock some, but my HD-650 has neutral bass. More so than my HD-600. Am I just lucky?

 

The thing though is very few open headphones i've tried have neutral low bass. It doesn't disappear, but less audible of course.

 

Last night I was listening to my K601 and I swear it had more of a mid-bass hump. Just bizarre. Male vocals are a lot fuller sounding too, which is different than how I heard it months ago. This was even on the Magni?!

 

I'll test that track with some of my headphones on my next free day. My best headphones for low or close to neutral low bass are the DJ100 and KRK KNS-8400. They have more present low bass than the 650/q701 even.

 

The 8400 easily fools people that it's bass light.


Edited by tdockweiler - 1/28/13 at 6:37pm
post #1008 of 3233

I'm actually quite impressed by the Q701's bass and sub-bass. It's not bass heavy or bloated, but the bass does show up when called upon. Bassy ambient/chillout music is really quite fun, but I listen to mostly prog rock and prog metal, which on occasion can have some very visceral, almost pyrotechnic like explosive bass. Anyone who is familiar with Devin Townsends work knows what I mean. 

 

It's obviously not going to hit you like a big subwoofer, but as long you listen to the Q701 understanding that it is a neutral headphone, then the bass really isn't disappointing. I really am impressed by the Q701 as a whole. To me it really does nothing wrong, and this is just paired with a Fiio E17 with 2-4db of bass boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post


The question is though..which one is really accurate. I mean without being the person who actually made it, it's hard to know. I guess you could use like 5 other neutral headphones for reference.

 

Sometimes I listened to so many recordings on my Q701 and they're much different than how they sound on the KRK KNS-6400/8400 and K601. I think the K601 is mostly flat. I mean they're warmer and slightly bassier.

 

I know it may shock some, but my HD-650 has neutral bass. More so than my HD-600. Am I just lucky?

 

The thing though is very few open headphones i've tried have neutral low bass. It doesn't disappear, but less audible of course.

 

Last night I was listening to my K601 and I swear it had more of a mid-bass hump. Just bizarre. Male vocals are a lot fuller sounding too, which is different than how I heard it months ago. This was even on the Magni?!

 

I'll test that track with some of my headphones on my next free day. My best headphones for low or close to neutral low bass are the DJ100 and KRK KNS-8400. They have more present low bass than the 650/q701 even.

 

The 8400 easily fools people that it's bass light.


Edited by jasonb - 1/28/13 at 6:01pm
post #1009 of 3233
I too felt the HD650 to have relatively natural bass to me. It's considered mid bass heavy, yet mid bass heavy headphones tend to smother mids, which is obviously not what happens with the HD650. Despite i5s smoothness in the treble range, I felt the 650 to be one of the most balanced and neutral-ish headphones, asides from the excess warmth added. In terms of frequency it was neutral, IMHO.

The Q701 was very neutral to me, but it just was lacking a little bass to be fully neutral to my ears. The Annie pushed the bass up and definitely gave them the neutral frequency I felt the Q701 lacked, with that layer of warmth added on top. Similar to the 650, as I have mentioned, just more open, and more energetic.
post #1010 of 3233
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

The thing though is very few open headphones i've tried have neutral low bass. It doesn't disappear, but less audible of course.

 

Planars, bro, try planars. Although I have to say HD650 bass extends very well albeit not as clean as cans like HE500, last I tested.

post #1011 of 3233

The HE-500s bass is not all that clean (tight).  

 

HD650 Redux:

 

 

HD650:

 

 

 

HE-500:


Edited by preproman - 1/28/13 at 6:10pm
post #1012 of 3233
I think he means in terms of distortion, which isn't shown on that graph. edit: Either way, there is lower end distortion on both.

Man, that HD650 redux graph screams neutral. Just how I heard it.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/28/13 at 6:14pm
post #1013 of 3233
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

The HE-500s bass is not all that clean (tight).  

 

 

FR graphs are pointless if you are trying to show bass cleanness. You look at the bass portion of total harmonic distortion measurements to gauge that.

 

HD650 redux THD

 

 

HE500 THD

 

 

From this it is quite evident that HD650s struggle quite a bit keeping sub-50Hz vibrations clean (huge 1st and 2nd order harmonic distortions) while HE500s are comparatively much better. Sure HE400/HE6/LCDs are a bit cleaner still, but those aren't relevant in this comparison.


Edited by jerg - 1/28/13 at 6:22pm
post #1014 of 3233

Gotcha..

post #1015 of 3233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


The Q701 was very neutral to me, but it just was lacking a little bass to be fully neutral to my ears. The Annie pushed the bass up and definitely gave them the neutral frequency I felt the Q701 lacked, with that layer of warmth added on top.\

 

Neutral?  Or more than neutral?

post #1016 of 3233
Agh, hard to explain. Neither achieve what I'd personally consider to be neutrality. The Q701 is bass shy of neutrality, while the Annie is warmer than neutral, but the frequency response is more what I'd consider neutral. Of course, I haven't seen the Annie's graphs, so I'm guesstimating. All I know is that to my ears, they are quite balanced in the way the HD650 redux's graph is (though I think the lower end will be bumped up more than that HD650 graph), despite that lovely warmth they both have.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 1/28/13 at 6:36pm
post #1017 of 3233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I think he means in terms of distortion, which isn't shown on that graph. edit: Either way, there is lower end distortion on both.

Man, that HD650 redux graph screams neutral. Just how I heard it.

 

Same here, but I did have two other pairs about two years ago that had slightly bloated mid-bass and a lack of treble. Not as detailed or as clear.

I didn't realize how much bass bleed mine had until I EQed it down a bit. It was unbearably bad for gaming.

I even tried the same setup with this more recent pair and it sounds much better. Of course those old pairs were not as bad as I make them out to be.

 

This one out of the box had some slight shoutyness in the lower mids, but went away later. Overall, this has very very slightly more extended low bass than my HD-600/580.

This 650 also seems to not have any recessed upper mids. In fact, it sounds like it has some slight forwardness somewhere in the upper mids. Strange. This HD-650 is barely warmer than my Q701 and DJ100.

Female vocals also sound more forward on the HD-650 compared to the 600/580. I'd say if a headphone doesn't work well for vocal oriented music i'll skip it.

 

I think the Q701 to my ears (and not going by graphs) sounds more neutral. The HD-650 is sometimes a bit too forgiving and seems to tame some of my bad recordings sometimes. Less so with the Magni/ODAC for whatever reason.

Any crappy recordings with annoys peaks in the treble on my 650 have a slight edge taken off them. I like this...everything somehow magically sounds good on the HD-650 and I don't mind this.

 

Even the worst stuff isn't too bad on my Q701 though...

 

BTW the Q701 is so revealing that i've discovered the weakest link in my "chain" was my amp's power supply. Not even kidding confused_face_2.gif Once I bought a new power supply ($50 used Astrodyne), I was able to squeeze out the last remaining (subtle) detail.

Some things I will NEVER EVER be able to explain. I must have noisy power and maybe a better power supply cleans it up or something. Can't detect much difference with the HD-650. That sounds worse than this whole cable/burn-in nonsense. Or maybe not..

 

Oh and this will be hard to believe, but my HD-600 has more mid/upper bass than my HD-650 it seems like. It's also not as controlled. Makes no sense right? I never for a second felt the HD-600 was my idea of neutral. Pretty close, but the 580 felt closer to neutral.

 

 

Oh..and i'm not a believer that everything should sound perfectly smooth on a neutral headphone and transparent gear. Some recordings are just plan awful. Luckily only like 10% of them are unlistenable. Some of the U2 stuff and some Jpop.


Edited by tdockweiler - 1/28/13 at 7:03pm
post #1018 of 3233
There are certain things, like lots of anime that sound harsh and trebly even with the HD650 and Annies. Definitely not the headphones. Anime tended to be very, very grating on the DT990 and the HE400. This was the main reason I bought the HD650. Anime is a large part of my headphone use, so it made sense to hve something that would lessen that fatigue it induces.
post #1019 of 3233
For those interested...
Quote:







K702 65th Anniversary Edition

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 80


Sells for $400-$500


Review (Click to show)
The K702 65th Anniversary Edition. Limited to 3000 units worldwide, sold at a premium, with a new headband, memory foam pads, gunmetal-like color scheme, and supposed retuning of the hand-picked drivers. I found the name to be a mouthful, so I decided to call it the K702 Annie, or just Annie. Thankfully, the name stuck on Head-fi. So from here on out, I'll be calling it the Annie.


Bass: Sound-wise, this is the most significant change coming off the older models. The Annie presents bass quite well. You can consider it slightly above neutral. Natural if the source doesn't have a need for bass, and quite full and involving when the need for bass is there. There were times where I found them to have more bass than even the HE-400. Overall, it certainly does not, but make no mistake, the bass can be quite full, layered, textured, and infectious.

What it improves over the Q701 is that the bass is no longer situational. It doesn't just hit with really bass heavy songs. It hits at all times, in a very natural way. Put on a bassy track, movie, game, etc, and the Annie WILL impress bass-wise. Make no mistake. I always found the Q701 and especially the old K701 to be slightly below neutral, bass-wise. The bass would decay too quickly, and wouldn't hit with enough energy to give a sense of naturality. No longer an issue with the Annie. Unless you're a basshead, I don't think there will be much to complain about here. If you like accurate, yet full bass, the Annie will impress. They are also absolutely stellar for movies in Dolby Headphone.


Mids: The mids on the K701/K702/Q701 have always been forward. However, due to the very large soundstage, they didn't come across as intimate. That large sense of space made the mids seem pushed back, even though they were actually forward in the mix compared to the bass and treble. The Q701's extra push in bass over the old K701 filled out the sound more, making the mids more natural than before. The Annie further improves on the mids by integrating them even more with the bass and treble. Due to the fuller, warmer sound signature, the mids are still forward, but not as distant due to a thicker sound. The mids are an absolute strength on the Annies. They remind me mostly of the HD650's mids, albeit with less intimacy due to the bigger soundstage. The HD650's strength is in the intimate mids due to a smaller, more closed in soundstage, placing the mids quite near you. The Annie's mids aren't HD650 special, but still fantastic.

The older models had some form of upper mid peak that caused some fatigue with certain music and the like. I personally have not heard any upper mid peak on the Annie, leading me to believe that the stronger bass, and warmer tone fleshed out and softened that peak to non-fatiguing levels. In this instance, the Annie shows what the Q701 would be like when perfected.


Treble: The treble to me, has been a strength for both the Q701 and Annie. Both are detailed, yet smooth, still packing energy without being fatiguing. As mentioned before, the fatiguing area of the older AKGs was in the upper mids, and not the treble.


Soundstage: Oh, that soundstage. The K and Q models have all been known to have some truly immense soundstage width, and good depth. The Annie follows suit with equally large soundstage, despite the overall sound being thicker which further integrates sound cues with the soundstage, making it not as apparently airy. Notice that I said 'not as airy', and not 'smaller'. This is both a pro and con. The thinner sounding K701 (old) had an incredible sense of air due to the thinner notes, which were't full sounding in comparison. This made notes easier to pick up, despite not sounding as natural as the Q701 and especially the Annie. What all this means, is that sound effects on the Annie occupy more of the space around you in comparison to the older models, for an overall meatier/weightier sound.


Positioning: Though I discussed the thicker body of sound making the soundstage not as airy as the old K701 and to a lesser extent, the Q701, positional cues were not hampered in any way. This means that you can expect god tier performance with Dolby Headphone. Lots of space for positional cues to do their magic, and I mean MAGIC. Surely among the best that I have reviewed.


Clarity: The Annie's warmer, less immediately detail oriented sound signature compared to the older models does not mean they lack clarity. The Annie is a very revealing headphone, just as the Q701 is, though it shifts the focus a bit more towards musicality. The Annie is in a place that reaps the benefits of both warmth and detail focus, though if you put it next to the old K701, then yes, it will come off as less detailed, as you're not assaulted with a mostly dry, and analytical sound signature.


Amping: As with the older models, the Annie is very sneaky in terms of amping requirements. It needs minimal amping to play loudly, but the AKGs are notorious for craving as much power as 600ohm headphones. The Q701 was the most amp reliant headphone I had ever heard, and changed the most out of any Dynamic headphone I ever heard and reviewed here. You will get away with moderate amping, but believe me, you will be doing a disservice to all the Ks and Qs by skimping out on amping. If you're gonna spend this much money on these headphones, you shouldn't feed it weak power, IMHO. They will reward you. The Annie is definitely the easiest of the models to power in terms of sounding good, but they still want power. Still, if you absolutely can't do with much amping, the Annie sounds quite full and refined off lesser equipment compared to the other models.


Build Quality: Made of a durable plastic, and well thought out design, I find the build quality to be quite good. I wouldn't toss them around haphazardly, but they'd definitely survive some abuse. The detachable cable is like the non-Anniversary models, which isn't the thickest I've seen, but certainly very malleable, flexible, and light. It certainly does it's job, though I would have expected a more rugged, or fancier cable for this very limited edition variant.

Compared to the non-Anniversary models of the K701/K702/Q701, the headband is thinner in width when viewed from the top/bottom, with a widening of the area where the AKG branding is located. The biggest difference (and it's incredibly significant), is that the underside of the headband no longer has the notorious (7-8) bumps, and is instead completely smooth. This basically turns the Annie from a torture device to a godsend in headband comfort. There is no padding, but it is absolutely unnecessary as the headband perfectly molds to your head, distributing pressure evenly across where it rests. The bumped headbands were notorious for digging into the scalp, especially on the center one or two bumps. Why it took AKG this long to rectify this issue the vast majority of people had is beyond me, but it's finally done.

The headband also has the added benefit of allowing bigger heads to fit due to less stiffness, and more space. Prior to the Annie, I basically needed the other models to be fully extended for them to fit my head. This caused a lot of tight, downwards pressure, which in addition to the hard bumps, didn't lead to the most comfortable headband design. It took me a few days to adjust to the older models, but I didn't find them as problematic as most people still do.

The pads are the second most significant change from the older models. They are made of memory foam inside velour. Very dense and molds to your head shape MUCH more than the older model pads. This causes a better seal, which is more than likely the main reason why the sound signature is warmer, and more bassy (though no consensus or proof that it either is or isn't what causes all the sonic difference between the older models). Other than those two main differences, the Annie is physically a rebadged K702.


Comfort: As previously mentioned, due to the new headband and new pads, the Annie has made a substantial boost in comfort over the older models. I would say that from what I've read, the K701/K702/Q701's comfort is hypothetically a 5/10 (for everyone else). The Annie, however would more than likely jump up to a 9/10 in comfort. Yes, the headband change is that significant. The removal of the dreaded bumps would basically satisfy ANYONE who had issues with them on the older models, and even those that don't have issues with the bumps.

The pads are arguable, as the older pads, while more firm, breathed a little easier than the new memory foam velours. In either case, neither are sweat inducing or uncomfortable, personally. I find the older models to be not as uncomfortable as most people would lead to believe, but the Annie provides a noticeable boost in comfort either way.


Accessories: Nothing but a 6.3mm adapter. Just the goods.


Isolation/Leakage: I don't know if it's just me, but even for a fully open headphone, I found these to not leak out as much as most open cans. I'm pretty sure it's due to the pads. The sound does not escape from the pads, but from the grills, and I find them to be pretty good at keeping sound in despite it's openness. I found the older models to leak out quite a bit more, more than likely due to the velour pads being a bit more breathable.


Value: At over $400, the Annie is a very tough sell, especially for those who own the later K702/Q701s (not sure on the newer K701). The non-Annies consistently sell for around $250. If you're fine with their sound signature and comfort, it's quite hard to recommend the Annie, despite the very obvious improvement in bass, comfort, and tonality. The Annie brings out what was lacking in the older models, for sure, but the jump in price may not be worth it to some. If you haven't owned any and can afford the Annie, I highly recommend jumping straight to the Annie, as they are clearly the best offering in the AKG lineup.


Final Impressions: In the Annie you have: very balanced, warm, detailed, spacious, god tier in positional cues, fun, engaging, and extreme comfort. If it sounds like I'm gushing about them, that's because I am. There is VERY little to complain about here. This is my idea of a perfected well balanced headphone. The only headphone I would prefer over the Annie is the D7000, which loses out on balance, in place of some truly awe-inspiring fun and musicality. Yes. The Annie is my 2nd favorite headphone ever, and due to it's comfort, musicality, and gaming prowess, the Annie would be my very first pick if I could only own one headphone.


Final Scores...


Fun: 8. Great. The bass is mildly above neutral to my ears, while still maintaining good accuracy, giving it the injection of fun that the other models lacked without being too emphasized to hamper it's overall well balanced signature. The soundstage paired with it's tonality, give it a great sense of immersion for ALL manners of gaming and movies, etc. I base this value on overall package, and not just bass emphasis. The Annie is one of the most impressive and fun headphones all around.

Competitive: 9.5. Amazing. Like the Q701, these are basically god tier, with a slight trade off of pure analytical detail-whoring, for an overall better balance between fun and competitive. Positional cues are just as good. There will not be any missed important sound effects or directional cues here.

Comfort: 9.5. Amazing. A significant leap in comfort compared to the older models due to the flat/smooth headband which allows for more extension. The memory foam velours contour to head shape incredibly well, and aren't sweat inducing like pleather/leather. The Annie is a light headphone as well. The only problem I foresee others having is that due to the size of the pads (like the older models), the pads may rest on the jaw which may cause some discomfort.
post #1020 of 3233

Can someone do me a favor and tell me if they hear a weird rumbling static noise in the right ear,

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLbRpObZFGQ&t=0m41s

 

listen for about 15 seconds (some of you may have to up the volume), my DT990 & HD650 do not have this might be the frequency


Edited by HelIish - 1/28/13 at 10:06pm
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