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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 604  

post #9046 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Guys, do you think 2W would be enough to power the HE-500?

 

Apparently my impressions are invalid because my amp isn't providing "enough" power to it.


Yep, that's usually the first thing you read when someone whose a fan boy thinks his/her gear can do no wrong. The first thing they throw out at you is your amp doesn't have enough grunt and if you stick to your guns the second is your ears aren't good enough to make out the differences but his/hers is. They usually say it in a far more non combative way then I just typed it of coarse but you get the general idea. If you think the HE500 sounds good and your amp can drive the headphone to a decent sound level chances are your amp is fine eke.


Edited by DigitalFreak - 3/26/13 at 8:10am
post #9047 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by driver 8 View Post

They sound wonderful off my ECBA (which gives them somewhere from 1.5-2, I think?) so yeah, probably.  I think the HE500's are more efficient than the Audez'e ones, which I actually have heard improve a bit from moar power, but it's not nearly as bad as a lot claim.

 

Thanks.

post #9048 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Guys, do you think 2W would be enough to power the HE-500?

 

Apparently my impressions are invalid because my amp isn't providing "enough" power to it.

 


More than enough.

 

I've said it before in other posts, but I really do think the power requirements for many headphones---especially orthos---are exaggerated. You want an amplifier to be able to "grip" the transducer and exercise control over it, but looking at the power output in isolation is far less relevant than considering the amp as a whole when it comes to synergy. That whole "but more watts will give you more headroom" thing is kind of nonsense past a certain point IMO. 

 

In fact I think the HE-500 sounds better on some DAPs than it does on some of these megalith stereo amps people advocate.

 

Of course, it's really just an excuse. Every transducer has fairly significant flaws, and to try and defend the headphones in which they've invested themselves, some individuals will dismiss any reports of said flaws as being due to not having enough power. A nuclear reactor should make the bass tighten up, for sure!

 

Ugh. I'm kind of annoyed with the direction high-end audio has gone in this respect. There's a fixation on power now in the headphone arena thanks to this generalization about orthos. We've got amps that are ridiculously over-powered, amps that can blow up a transducer like the HE-6 (an ortho that is legitimately power hungry) with ease. Amps that buzz and hum with sensitive headphones and don't give you any room for fine volume adjustments.

 

Electrostats on the other hand are another matter entirely. They really do need gobs of power, and underpowering them will result in poor sound.

post #9049 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 


More than enough.

 

I've said it before in other posts, but I really do think the power requirements for many headphones---especially orthos---are exaggerated. You want an amplifier to be able to "grip" the transducer and exercise control over it, but looking at the power output in isolation is far less relevant than considering the amp as a whole when it comes to synergy. That whole "but more watts will give you more headroom" thing is kind of nonsense past a certain point IMO. 

 

In fact I think the HE-500 sounds better on some DAPs than it does on some of these megalith stereo amps people advocate.

 

Of course, it's really just an excuse. Every transducer has fairly significant flaws, and to try and defend the headphones in which they've invested themselves, some individuals will dismiss any reports of said flaws as being due to not having enough power. A nuclear reactor should make the bass tighten up, for sure!

 

Ugh. I'm kind of annoyed with the direction high-end audio has gone in this respect. There's a fixation on power now in the headphone arena thanks to this generalization about orthos. We've got amps that are ridiculously over-powered, amps that can blow up a transducer like the HE-6 (an ortho that is legitimately power hungry) with ease. Amps that buzz and hum with sensitive headphones and don't give you any room for fine volume adjustments.

 

Electrostats on the other hand are another matter entirely. They really do need gobs of power, and underpowering them will result in poor sound.

 

 

I really appreciate that. Thanks you biggrin.gif

post #9050 of 21760

@eke2k6

 

I've posted in your thread my views as well as politely told the boarder line troll on there I was reporting him to the site mods. I personally don't like seeing people I consider friends being mocked. His attitude is a little to much on the arrogant side for my liking. I suggest you follow suit and also hit the red flag icon underneath his posts. There's really no need to have your thread mucked up by him.

post #9051 of 21760

I'll admit though, eke, that some of your comments make me a bit curious about your setup (and/or those HE500's as Hifiman's QC isn't the best) after reading that thread.  And you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the people saying volume level =/= quality because that's absolutely true.

post #9052 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

@eke2k6

 

I've posted in your thread my views as well as politely told the boarder line troll on there I was reporting him to the site mods. I personally don't like seeing people I consider friends being mocked. His attitude is a little to much on the arrogant side for my liking. I suggest you follow suit and also hit the red flag icon underneath his posts. There's really no need to have your thread mucked up by him.

 

Thank you DF. I didn't see your post before replying. beerchug.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by driver 8 View Post

I'll admit though, eke, that some of your comments make me a bit curious about your setup (and/or those HE500's as Hifiman's QC isn't the best) after reading that thread.  And you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the people saying volume level =/= quality because that's absolutely true.

 

I understand. I don't name my amp because it doesn't have a name. It was custom built for a meet in Seattle, and later tweaked.

 

I had a friend measure the output, and it came out to around 2W. It's driven all my cans without issue, and the HE-500 is absolutely no exception. 

 

What I'm really curious to hear is what exactly I'm missing by "underpowering" the HE-500. 

post #9053 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

Thank you DF. I didn't see your post before replying. beerchug.gif

 

 

I understand. I don't name my amp because it doesn't have a name. It was custom built for a meet in Seattle, and later tweaked.

 

I had a friend measure the output, and it came out to around 2W. It's driven all my cans without issue, and the HE-500 is absolutely no exception. 

 

What I'm really curious to hear is what exactly I'm missing by "underpowering" the HE-500. 


I think a lot of people get underpowered and synergy mixed up. My Q701 can be driven by 75% of the gears I own but it doesn't necessarily mean it will sound good. If anything my Q can and K240 has demonstrated to me that synergy can mean a lot.

post #9054 of 21760
Orthos want current more than they want wattage. HE-6 excepted. But even the HE-6's reputation exceeds its real-world needs.
post #9055 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Guys, do you think 2W would be enough to power the HE-500?

 

Apparently my impressions are invalid because my amp isn't providing "enough" power to it.

 

I can't think of an amp that puts out 2W into any other load would somehow lose it's power going into a 38Ω load.  Out of curiousity, when you measured its output at 2W, what was the load?  Also, would you mind sharing any details on your amp (class A, AB1, D, etc? or ratings on the power supply)?  Whatever you may be willing to share is fine, I just like to get the juicy details of DIY projects.  Seeing the guts is even more fun.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 


More than enough.

 

I've said it before in other posts, but I really do think the power requirements for many headphones---especially orthos---are exaggerated. You want an amplifier to be able to "grip" the transducer and exercise control over it, but looking at the power output in isolation is far less relevant than considering the amp as a whole when it comes to synergy. That whole "but more watts will give you more headroom" thing is kind of nonsense past a certain point IMO. 

 

In fact I think the HE-500 sounds better on some DAPs than it does on some of these megalith stereo amps people advocate.

 

Of course, it's really just an excuse. Every transducer has fairly significant flaws, and to try and defend the headphones in which they've invested themselves, some individuals will dismiss any reports of said flaws as being due to not having enough power. A nuclear reactor should make the bass tighten up, for sure!

 

Ugh. I'm kind of annoyed with the direction high-end audio has gone in this respect. There's a fixation on power now in the headphone arena thanks to this generalization about orthos. We've got amps that are ridiculously over-powered, amps that can blow up a transducer like the HE-6 (an ortho that is legitimately power hungry) with ease. Amps that buzz and hum with sensitive headphones and don't give you any room for fine volume adjustments.

 

Electrostats on the other hand are another matter entirely. They really do need gobs of power, and underpowering them will result in poor sound.

 

I don't really have any low powered amps that are appropriate for orthos as anything I have that pumps out less than 750mW into 50Ω is an OTL tube amp that's rather poorly suited for low impedance loads (I've tried with very flubby results).  With the exception of powering the HE-6, most of my options are either overkill or quite underpowered.  When making my own recommendations I try to make sure to outline my relative lack of experience with the middle ground and confirm that my opinions are formed from the high-powered gear.  Usually I'll just say that I've confirmed that it can't reach a reasonable volume straight out of my iPod but gets to more than satisfying levels out of a Magni, Asgard, Taboo, or Liquid Glass.  I try to point them to other people with experience on O2's, M-Stage or other amps in the middle for impressions.

 

As far as true power needs, I can't speak to the HE-500, but the LCD-3 should be fine with something like the O2 (given the write gain setup).  For me I'm a little more concerned about power supplies and having gobbs of current reserves.  I think your second sentence ("You want an amplifier to be able to "grip" the transducer and exercise control over it, but looking at the power output in isolation is far less relevant than considering the amp as a whole when it comes to synergy.") is quite on point.  I do think there's usually a threshold for minimum power, but it's lower than most people think.  For the Mr Speakers Mad Dogs, Dan Clark has recommended ≥ 100mW (into 50Ω) as the minimum suggested power. 

post #9056 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzerdave View Post

 

I can't think of an amp that puts out 2W into any other load would somehow lose it's power going into a 38Ω load.  Out of curiousity, when you measured its output at 2W, what was the load?  Also, would you mind sharing any details on your amp (class A, AB1, D, etc? or ratings on the power supply)?  Whatever you may be willing to share is fine, I just like to get the juicy details of DIY projects.  Seeing the guts is even more fun.

 

 

 

No clue, sorry. I let my physics professor do that for me. Physics II was the class in undergrad that dealt with electricity, but it was also the class right after lunch. I saw a lot of the back of my eyelids during that period.

 

Here are some pics though:

 

 

 

 

post #9057 of 21760
That looks beautiful, eke.
post #9058 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

That looks beautiful, eke.

 

*blush*

post #9059 of 21760
Thread Starter 

The Songbird might end up on my desk along with a Skyrim dragon and the SR-1 Normandy. That or it'll join the Portal turrets, Tom Servo, and Master Shake in their efforts to guard my amps.

 

I'd be worried about it trying to abduct my various yuri / shoujo-ai figurines, but Fate and Nanoha will protect them all for sure.

post #9060 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

A nuclear reactor should make the bass tighten up, for sure!

 

My HE-6 caused Chernobyl...

 

 

In other news...MF, would you mind posting a pic of the Songbird thingy? I have the regular version but I wouldn't be opposed to spending some money on something non-audio related, given how much I like Bioshock

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