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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 44  

post #646 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

I guess I have a very different opinion of Facebook from the masses. I have several former classmates and friends that work at Facebook, and back in the day, my university was one of the first 15 schools on Facebook. I've been a member since 2004. Facebook as a company has obviously changed drastically from those days, but when I first joined, it wasn't the big Leviathan it is now, and I can understand the rapid evolution and massive expansion that happens to a tech startup, and all the consequences it brings. Give Zuck a break. He's not the devil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

 

It's ok.

 

Before there was Facebook I hated MySpace.  After Facebook I'll probably hate whatever social networking site pops up next.  I just don't like the concept so no matter who you are you'll have a hell of a time making a good one.

 

It's like asking someone to pick their favorite Nazi.

 

biggrin.gif

 

I personally never felt the need to participate in any of these social networks. On the other hand, I find it hard to hate something that you're entirely free to embrace or disregard as you like. In this sense, the Nazi comparison is somewhat flawed. wink.gif

post #647 of 21760

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

The thing is, data mining makes any sharing in your real name over-sharing.  It can all be cross-correlated and tracked back to you by anyone with just frontend access to public sites.

 

If you use a handle they at least have to get a warrant or hack something to trace an IP to a name.

 

Perhaps you and I define 'sharing' and 'over-sharing' differently. That's okay. At least this means that you'll choose to keep your online presence to pseudonyms and avatars.

post #648 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

I tend to not put too much on  Facebook. Its really the ultimate in invasion of privacy and most people fail to realize this. There's also a lot of bad things that have happened invoving facebook (including murders, etc).

 

That's kind of a stretch. It's like saying "don't go outside, you could get hit by a car."

 

Facebook is a beautiful invention. I keep in touch with friends around the world using it, and it's a quick way to message my family when I can't reach them over the phone, or simply can't afford to call them at the moment (international calls are quite expensive from the US).

 

Social networks aren't at fault. Rather, it's those who use them to perpetrate crimes. It's just like saying a girl shouldn't wear a skirt because it provides easy access to a rapist. Sorry for the graphic example, but I'm trying to get across how ridiculous the argument seems to me.

 

I had an hour long debate with a co-worker who believed Apple was the devil for exploiting people, and making them spend their last on phones when they have other fiscal responsibilities. My argument was that humanity is inherently flawed, and those people would have found something else to buy if Apple didn't exist.

post #649 of 21760
I personally hate how people are so paranoid of facebook. I don't really put anything on there I'd want to hide from the outside world. Sure I talk about anime, music and headphones on a regular basis, but why would I care if others found out about that? Everyone is allowed to have their own hobbies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

On a lighter note, I'm getting a Stax 4070. Wee!

Envious.
I hope to demo those soon.

To be honest I can't imagine closed electrostats are much good. The bi-directional driver may cause some serious problems, I recon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

Well I've just started using Facebook but I don't use my real name. Truth be known most of what's on my page is the city and country I live in and some rants/ravings concerning gear/music and the odd neat pic I've found on the net. It's pretty dry stuff actually and i doubt most people would give my page a second look.

And here was me thinking that's your real name.

You have tricked us!
post #650 of 21760

A great little pop/rock tune:

 


Edited by music_4321 - 9/17/12 at 4:29am
post #651 of 21760
A few quotes and responses (Click to show)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

 

 

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Yup.  This is exactly (read: slight parody of) why I'm so paranoid about my handle and RL identity crossing over at all.

 

I'm actually putting together a resume for possible change of jobs right now as well and it's nerve wracking enough without having to worry about a potential employer looking me up online and finding out about all you out-of-the-mainstream hobbies, seeing you debate controversial issues, or possibly think I'm insane because they don't get the context of some joke I made because they're not part of the sub-culture.  I rarely drink and don't do drugs or party so it's not even like there are (or are too likely to ever be) pictures or videos of me getting wasted and doing something stupid, which seems to be one of the more common things employers find on Facebook or whatever other social networking site, but things I post in forums or as comments on blogs are plenty good ammo as excuses to fire someone for "making the company look bad" or just not perfect enough for a resume or application to be discarded out of hand..

 

I think I may end up getting a LinkedIn Profile just for "professional" use since it seem to be getting pretty popular and actually useful.  My dad's almost 60 but he has one and he even just got a new job through it.  Of course maverickronin will never mention his real name and under my real name at LinkedIn I'll never mention maverickronin.  I think that would be pretty easy to do there since it's mostly about business and jobs.  Facebook tries to be everything and even if I got a Facebook account it would pretty much be useless.

 

Some of it's stuff I'd actually enjoy, like more easily keeping in touch with old friends, but I'd pretty much need 2 separate accounts, one in my real name and one as maverickronin. The last time I read the TOS it said you could only have one account and you had to use your real name so I don't even want to bother for all the hassle it would be.  I wouldn't be able to use the only other thing facebook seems to be good for either, the promotions and contests that require you to "like" something.  I can't use my handle because Facebook won't let me and I couldn't use my real name either because the majority of promotions and contests I'd like to take part in/enter would be related to my hobbies and easily traced to my handle.

 

 

 

I see what you mean, and it is a problem. Privacy has always been somewhat of a problem. It can be explained pretty though: you want people to know as little negative, relative to the situation (for example, drinking habits when looking for a new job or furry interests when applying for a membership in a prison gang), about you as possible, and those people on the other hand want to know as much about you as possible, relative to the context. That is why we mingle and get to know eachother when meeting new people; we are curious about people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

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You have it right - do NOT let your personal, professional and entertainment online personas cross. And yes, I means three different worlds. I do not use my personal Facebook account for professional or "entertainment" uses - it is for family, friends and old school mates. I don't play games on that Facebook account and I do not accept friend requests from professional contacts. I have a separate Facebook account for playing games and other entertainment activities. My Linkedin account is where all of my professional contacts go - and I do not use it for personal or online friends. Don't post BS using either your professional or personal persona - don't complain/joke about your boss, your employees, your coworkers, your company or your industry. If you post something to Linkedin, make it something 100% professional - like answering a technical question and talking about something you or your company does well. And for the love of Om, do NOT use some trendy or joke picture in your Linkedin profile!
Don't make the mistake of thinking that a 50-something year old manager or potential manager isn't googling your name. Trust me, they are!
Anyone who plays Facebook games has at least 2 accounts - probably 4 or 5. It's a huge advantage to have multiple accounts when playing many of the Facebook multiuser/clan games. Facebook won't say squat about it - they just want the user counts.

 

The interesting part now is that I've actually seen several companies advertising with them staying out of your personal lives. They all say something along the lines of "You are entitled to a personal life, everyone makes mistakes, we won't search for you on FaceBook and Google". How true this is, I don't know, but that's been a bit of a hook for them to get applicants to their positions. Also, it is really not the main point - the main point is that there is a shared viewpoint and that people in general recognize invading the privacy as a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

Quote (Click to show)

 

A statement from our esteemed Mark Zuckerberg, which I quoted to my furry interviewees for their response:

 

 

Personally I think Zuckerberg is a disconnected and insensitive person who has either never had anything to hide, or no empathy towards those who have things they want to keep personal. He has a reductionist view that increased transparency necessarily leads to increased tolerance, and he forwards his business interests by advancing the facile argument that people who act differently in different contexts are being dishonest. 

 

One of the main arcs in my thesis is this insistence on people being stable, singular, identifiable units of personality, because the alternative would be too scary or too confusing.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure I understood the interview correctly, was Zuckerberg concerned that the sexual orientation was still out there to be interpreted by the people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

Quote (Click to show)

It's all fine and good to believe you should have only one online persona, and to take the Zuckerberg stance that hiding online lacks integrity. As long as you stay out of the real world (or can afford to create your own bubble of reality) that will work fine. But the issue is not really the company that confronts you with your facebook or blog post and says "We don't like this, you are fired." The real issue is that when you send your resume to a company you want to work for, your resume ends up in the shredder because of a past post and you get a TBNT response. You would never know it happened. The same goes for a job you currently hold. Your boss might not fire you, but in some companies the concept of being "managed out" is a well-honed art, and although you might suspect you are being targeted, you won't be able to prove it. You will simply get frustrated and you will move on (if you can!)

 

Oh but privacy and integrity are not mutually exclusive. You can still have integrity, as long as you yourself choose what people are supposed to see from the outside, and yes, by that I even stretch to identity. In an ideal (online) world, you should be able to hide your identity from people that aren't supposed to know who you are, and I'm rather firmly set on this requirement. That's one of the reasons I don't want to use FaceBook - I am not free enough to choose whether or not I want people to know who I am, or to choose whether or not people should be able to search for me, and so on. I have a rather unusual name, unusual enough to be the only one in all of Sweden to have the combination of first name and last name. Imagine if there were to be something negative associated with the name - be it a rumour, a fact, lies, or whatever - it would be traced back to me. Not someone else. Me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Quote (Click to show)

I guess I have a very different opinion of Facebook from the masses. I have several former classmates and friends that work at Facebook, and back in the day, my university was one of the first 15 schools on Facebook. I've been a member since 2004. Facebook as a company has obviously changed drastically from those days, but when I first joined, it wasn't the big Leviathan it is now, and I can understand the rapid evolution and massive expansion that happens to a tech startup, and all the consequences it brings. Give Zuck a break. He's not the devil.

 

 

I think your opinion is that of the masses, to be honest. It's always those who are negative about Facebook that are loudest, while at the same time there are millions and millions more quietly playing Farmville. Also, I don't Zuckerberg is the devil, but he has shown a bit of a bad side of himself as well. From my understanding, Facebook was not entirely his own idea, nor was it entirely his own project or his own money that went into its startup. Also from my understanding, there are quite a few people around that would probably feel a little more entitled to everything about Facebook than they are given credit for. Lastly, this springs to mind when talking about Zuckerberg and Facebook http://daltoncaldwell.com/dear-mark-zuckerberg

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

 

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I tend to not put too much on  Facebook. Its really the ultimate in invasion of privacy and most people fail to realize this. There's also a lot of bad things that have happened invoving facebook (including murders, etc).

 

 

This is also very true. I wrote a rather long post about the invaded privacy in the old thread about that particular subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post


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It's not Zukcerburg I find familiar. It's that someone else that maverickronin said.
And mave already answered here, although I have someone else in mind. I think that's what most people would say when they're attacked/criticized a lot when they post in their RL name ("blah blah posting behind internet handles blah blah no integrity blah blah"). Note though that I haven't a clue at what he's writing, and just judging from the name alone [Why Evolution is True] I'm sure it has taken a lot of flak.


I'm starting to take note of what I put on Facebook nowadays. Since I'll be finishing my course this term (Sept '12 - June '13) I've got to think of my employment future. Luckily I'm not as crazy as some of my friends and 'friends' are. Those needs pruning too. I'm more worried at what I posted before rather than what I did 2 years back and beyond.

 

 

You could possibly even use Facebook as a tool here. Do not put personal stuff there. Do not play games and such. Do, hoever, put any news of interest, links, videos, and so on, that are relevant for the field you want to work in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

 

 

Quote (Click to show)

 

The thing is, data mining makes any sharing in your real name over-sharing.  It can all be cross-correlated and tracked back to you by anyone with just frontend access to public sites.

 

If you use a handle they at least have to get a warrant or hack something to trace an IP to a name.

 

 

 

You are completely right about the IP issue. Far too often people don't know this, but an IP cannot legally be traced back to you as a person, unless there is a warrant for it and those doing the tracing work for the government.

 

This has become a problem when talking about piracy in Sweden. See, the problem is that companies want to be able to trace an IP to you, so that they can press charges against you for piracy. For a long time, IPs were not logged by the ISP due to Swedish law about keeping logs and records - there was simply put very strict regulations for keeping records of people. Strict enough not to allow ISPs to keep logs on who had a specific IP at a specific given time. This all is about to change, since there has come a new law that isn't working with that older law of privacy. ISPs are not only allowed to start keeping records and logs, but are bound to do it by law. Now, the majority of ISPs don't do this, because of that older law and well, they want to keep their pirate customers. An ISP that means you'd get caught for piracy is not an ISP that would get many customers - simple formula. In essence, Hollywood has changed the laws of privacy and integrity in Sweden. Well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

 

Quote (Click to show)

 

That's kind of a stretch. It's like saying "don't go outside, you could get hit by a car."

 

Facebook is a beautiful invention. I keep in touch with friends around the world using it, and it's a quick way to message my family when I can't reach them over the phone, or simply can't afford to call them at the moment (international calls are quite expensive from the US).

 

Social networks aren't at fault. Rather, it's those who use them to perpetrate crimes. It's just like saying a girl shouldn't wear a skirt because it provides easy access to a rapist. Sorry for the graphic example, but I'm trying to get across how ridiculous the argument seems to me.

 

I had an hour long debate with a co-worker who believed Apple was the devil for exploiting people, and making them spend their last on phones when they have other fiscal responsibilities. My argument was that humanity is inherently flawed, and those people would have found something else to buy if Apple didn't exist.

 

 

 

Facebook in and off itself is not a bad thing. Facebooks stance on anonymity, privacy and integrity is.

 

My personal stance on Facebook is that I stay out of there. There is no need for me to be there, there is nothing I gain from a membership there but there are potential losses in Facebook for me. Privacy is a very personal thing, and I like to keep mine. If people want to tell me something, chances are they already have my number. If it's important enough, they can call me. I'm a person that likes to be left alone from unwanted attention, and likes the attention from family and family that I choose for myself. I know for a fact that there are some people in my family that I'd like outside of my personal sphere, that have already been using Facebook to get a hold of me. This is clearly a matter of different interests as Facebook is all about finding people, and my interests of not being found. I know that some of the things I've said in the above responses probably aren't general enough that I speak for the majority of people, but there is a large chunk of people that I do represent. I know I am free to choose what information I want to be public about me, but the thing is, and the main point is, that my identity is not one of them.

 

However, there a positives about Facebook as well. The people you do want to keep contact with for instance. As eke2k6 mentioned, Facebook is cheaper than international phone calls. Also, you can use Facebook to show a proffesional side of you, and keep a gimmick account for personal matters. However, I don't think that I have so many international friends that I don't keep contact with through these services where I can stay anonymous if I choose to. I also don't have any interest in anything that Facebook offers me; their minigames are bad, their services are often meaningless (IMO) and the whole idea of a worldwide community is, while funny, frightening when it comes to spreading of information. I know information is spread via google and all these other services, but there is no way that I'd actively and willingly help them spread that information. If they want to make money out of me, then they should do the work - not me.

 

Lastly, yes, people are naive about the information that can be garnered through social networks. The very apologetic nature of some people vouching for Facebook not being that dangerous is a danger in and of itself. The moment we start losing focus on such a basic right as privacy, is also the moment we'll start letting bad things happen.

 

 

LOL (Click to show)

 

Yes, I know I'm paranoid nutcase when it comes Facebook and other social networks. I have my reasons though. You would too in my shoes.

 

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't after you..." 

 

ph34r.gif

 

post #652 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

That's kind of a stretch. It's like saying "don't go outside, you could get hit by a car."

 

Facebook is a beautiful invention. I keep in touch with friends around the world using it, and it's a quick way to message my family when I can't reach them over the phone, or simply can't afford to call them at the moment (international calls are quite expensive from the US).

 

Social networks aren't at fault. Rather, it's those who use them to perpetrate crimes. It's just like saying a girl shouldn't wear a skirt because it provides easy access to a rapist. Sorry for the graphic example, but I'm trying to get across how ridiculous the argument seems to me.

 

I had an hour long debate with a co-worker who believed Apple was the devil for exploiting people, and making them spend their last on phones when they have other fiscal responsibilities. My argument was that humanity is inherently flawed, and those people would have found something else to buy if Apple didn't exist.

 

For the very reason you stated "it's those who use them to perpetrate crimes" even those up in high places, so I'd rather not use facebook in all honesty. Its all a means to invade your privacy and in that "control". Glad you like it though but there are other darker intentions behind it all. Just as Coq de Combat feels, I cherish my privacy and don't need to spread everything out there for the world to view. Just my 2 cents.


Edited by lee730 - 9/17/12 at 2:33am
post #653 of 21760

Yes, but you're forgetting a fundamental part of it all. 

 

YOU choose what goes on there. You don't have to put up your phone number, address, pictures, or anything like that. YOU choose who has access to your profile. 

 

For instance, I hide my raunchier status updates from my mother, sister, and other close relatives who may potentially frown at me for posting a picture like this:

 

 

538233_10150973284880902_1281928863_n.jpg

post #654 of 21760
@CdC, thanks for the advice. If the need arises, I will make a more cleaner, strictly business/serious account, but for now, I'm cleaning up.

The thing is, I don't even want to join Facebook in the first place, 5 years ago. Since my sponsor/loaner found it so much easier to inform us of information, and since I'm going to be away from my parents for mostly a year at a time, Facebook became a need.Of course I got caught in the honeytrap that is its mediocre-at-best games and potentially-malware apps when I first joined. Oh and Malaysia being Malaysia, there's a lot of noise regarding things I don't care/probably incriminating stuff that got spewed by a lot of my friends and 'friends'.
post #655 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Yes, but you're forgetting a fundamental part of it all. 

 

YOU choose what goes on there.

Anyone can put up a picture of anyone there (and even tag them with your name), right?

 

Imagine that happening in a country where certain activities (like political rallies) are prohibited.


Edited by Coq de Combat - 9/17/12 at 2:51am
post #656 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Yes, but you're forgetting a fundamental part of it all. 

YOU choose what goes on there. You don't have to put up your phone number, address, pictures, or anything like that. YOU choose who has access to your profile. 

For instance, I hide my raunchier status updates from my mother, sister, and other close relatives who may potentially frown at me for posting a picture like this:


I think this control is what most people seem to disregard and now are blaming on others that their information, which is what they chose to put online, spreading all over the place. What you put up is your responsibility. For example, try as much as you like, you probably won't know that John Doe A likes furry art and fanfic if he doesn't state it in Facebook/other places online.
Edited by jgray91 - 9/17/12 at 5:15am
post #657 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

@CdC, thanks for the advice. If the need arises, I will make a more cleaner, strictly business/serious account, but for now, I'm cleaning up.
The thing is, I don't even want to join Facebook in the first place, 5 years ago. Since my sponsor/loaner found it so much easier to inform us of information, and since I'm going to be away from my parents for mostly a year at a time, Facebook became a need.Of course I got caught in the honeytrap that is its mediocre-at-best games and potentially-malware apps when I first joined. Oh and Malaysia being Malaysia, there's a lot of noise regarding things I don't care/probably incriminating stuff that got spewed by a lot of my friends and 'friends'.

No probs. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post


I think this control is what most people seem to disregard and now are blaming on others that their information, which is what they chose to put online, spreading all over the place. What you put up is your responsibility. For example, try as much as you like, you probably won't know that John Doe A likes furry art and fanfic if he doesn't state it in Facebook/other places online.

Yes, but that is only true until some friend of yours put up a picture of you at a furry convention and tag it with your name. Then it's not your choice or responsibility.

post #658 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post

Anyone can put up a picture of anyone there (and even tag them with your name), right?

 

Imagine that happening in a country where certain activities (like political rallies) are prohibited.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post

 

Yes, but that is only true until some friend of yours put up a picture of you at a furry convention and tag it with your name. Then it's not your choice or responsibility.

 

 

Not quite. Privacy settings allow you dictate who can tag you in pictures/posts and, if you so choose, you can completely disable tagging.

 

The issue is with plain (excuse me) stupidity. A girl in the year above me here at pharm school posted a rant about one of her professors on FB. This professor is friends with a friend of hers, and saw the post. Of course, the girl was punished. However, who is truly at fault, FB or the girl?

post #659 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post

Anyone can put up a picture of anyone there (and even tag them with your name), right?

Imagine that happening in a country where certain activities (like political rallies) are prohibited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post

Yes, but that is only true until some friend of yours put up a picture of you at a furry convention and tag it with your name. Then it's not your choice or responsibility.


Not quite. Privacy settings allow you dictate who can tag you in pictures/posts and, if you so choose, you can completely disable tagging.

The issue is with plain (excuse me) stupidity. A girl in the year above me here at pharm school posted a rant about one of her professors on FB. This professor is friends with a friend of hers, and saw the post. Of course, the girl was punished. However, who is truly at fault, FB or the girl?

@CdC, ah yes. That. I forgotten about that.

But it's kind of new info for me when eke say I can disable tagging. I guess I must have missed it since I think I've gone over the privacy settings countless times. Oh my god are they very complicated. Or at least very tedious in my eyes.

I think that's what people are trying to do: shifting the blame borne of one's stupidity onto FB. Thats's how I see it anyway.
post #660 of 21760

You have to realize eke that is is very easy to hack facebook accounts. I know people who can easily do it and it's quite disturbing.


Edited by lee730 - 9/17/12 at 3:13am
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