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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 356  

post #5326 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coq de Combat View Post

You are obviously entitled to your opinions about everyone, but I think that you may be making a big mistake by dividing the world in male and female, if that's what you do. In my opinion, making such distinctions is a thing of the past and probably belongs to biology and social sciences more than anything else nowadays. I don't think that we ever will get past any kind of inequality between the sexes as long as we keep making distinctions between sexes.

 

Yours is a good point and I understand it very well. I'm not against social inequality. 

 

By the way MF laughed at great thinker Baltasar who didn't see women as priests. If you don't agree with him, will you think that he is a fool or he should go to his cave? He was a very smart man. Didn't you think that there was a logic behind his thoughts?

post #5327 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Good grief man. Where do you get your information?

 

wikipedia.org

post #5328 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

I'm wondering if you read MF's ideas attentively. They are radical. They are not just about social justice between men and women but she goes further and is trying to break gender differencies. She is trying to prove that gays and lesbians are not anomaly but a rule. She explains the majority through minority.

I don't see her doing that at all.

My response to gelocks was regarding his use of sexuality as a perjorative; I'll trust him to have not meant that, specifically, or to have said what he did in a mean-spirited way, but I'd just as soon not watch this thread devolve to namecalling and stereotyping.

Beyond that, all I will contribute to this current conversation is what I said in another context a while ago: "This is certainly something I have strong opinions about."
post #5329 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

wikipedia.org

If it's on the interwebs it must be true! 

post #5330 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

By the way MF laughed at great thinker Baltasar who didn't see women as priests. If you don't agree with him, will you think that he is a fool or he should go to his cave? He was a very smart man. Didn't you think that there was a logic behind his thoughts?

 

Actually, if you genuinely read what I write attentively (which I don't believe for a minute), you would have read that I like a lot of what von Balthasar has written and respect many aspects of his theology. I've read the entirely of Glory of the Lord and Theo-Drama. I've written several essays on his work. I just happen to think his views on gender relations are naive and somewhat tragic. Thoughts can have a logical flow to them but be based on false premises.

 

As for my views being radical outside of the US, I would argue they're somewhat radical within the US. I've never tried to represent them otherwise.


Edited by MuppetFace - 1/31/13 at 10:55am
post #5331 of 21760
Thread Starter 

Anyway, I don't see anything positive coming from this... discussion? I think it was a discussion at one point. I would ask that everyone just stop and not carry on with the current trajectory. We wouldn't want anyone being corrupted by my "gay agenda" after all.

post #5332 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Actually, if you genuinely read what I write attentively (which I don't believe for a minute), you would have read that I like a lot of what von Balthasar has written and respect many aspects of his theology. I've read the entirely of Glory of the Lord and Theo-Drama. I've written several essays on his work. I just happen to think his views on gender relations are naive and somewhat tragic. Thoughts can have a logical flow to them but be based on false premises.

 

So it never came to your mind that it's YOU who finds his views naive and tragic? And it doesn't mean that they ARE like you perceive them.

post #5333 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Anyway, I don't see anything positive coming from this... discussion? I think it was a discussion at one point. I would ask that everyone just stop and not carry on with the current trajectory. We wouldn't want anyone being corrupted by my "gay agenda" after all.

 

OK. Let's stop.

post #5334 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

I have difficulty to imagine women to be priests. There could be exceptions but generally I would say "no way". I don't believe "in progress" in the sense that as if women were not given chance and if you allow them to prove their abilities in mens' spheres ( like religion) they will be as capable or influential as men. Priests are some kind of visionaries and especially as visionaries women suck. In practical areas women can rival and even surpass men.

 

Schopenhauer gave a good example of women in art ( paintings). They didn't have obstacles to express themselves in this category and they didn't manage to produce really outstanding painters. Female writers at best are not that great.

 

You can say that lately when women were given more freedom we can see quality of their work. The problem is that lately literature and art have become more personal aiming to different niches. You may not be a great writer or thinker but you will find your niche. Even pathetic writers can manage to find their readers. While in the past it was more difficult to reach out to people. You had to offer something special to be heard.

 

So the much bigger quantity of female thinkers, writers etc. which has appeared lately doesn't really say much about real quality. It is just the scale of information is much bigger and easier to access than before.

 

My primary disagreement with you is that many other religions, such as Methodists, Unitarians, and United Church of Christ, have allowed female leadership to the point where women are almost dominant, and can be used as evidence that women do in fact make great clergy.  In general I think that outside areas like weightlifting, gender limitations are greatly exaggerated.

post #5335 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

"He hates women so he might be gay, LOL" isn't really the angle to take.
I don't want to call anyone out or anything, but this is an issue I've had with this forum for a long time now. Maybe it boils down to cultural differences since this is an international forum but the amount of times I've seen people view gender in such plain black and white terms is frankly unnerving. It's like people are so afraid of anything that can remotely be viewed as emasculating. I remember posting a mod I did on my ASG-1s where I took some nail polish to my phones and someone quoted me stating, (and I'm paraphrasing) "I hope that belongs to your wife." or "If my girlfriend catches me with that there will be a lot of questions." God forbid any of these people may have to shop for feminine hygiene products for their SOs or child some day. :l

And believe it or not, sexuality does nothing to diminish a person's capacity to be a man or a woman. How do you define masculinity anyway? Do you need to sport a rockin stache like Charles Bronson, and be a gun toting Republican? What does it mean to be a woman? That you've got to be Gucci'd up and look like you've walked out of the pages of Glamour? People are too complex to be pigeonholed into such convenient gender constructs

This type of stuff isn't tolerated at other forums I've been on; you'd be promptly reprimanded for such a playground mentality. Bah, I'm annoyed now. And although mutabor's posts are pretty transparent as troll bait you should engage him with some civility or just ignore him. Telling him to go back to his cave and linking gifs of flipping him the bird is a pretty lazy rebuttal.

MF - I meant to reply to your BORIS post but culling parts of your response to reply to on an iPad is frustrating. I'll get to it later

Edit: You know I wanna bring some levity to this post cause I probably come across like some kind of passive aggressive backseat mod :l

They just released a new trailer for Bioshock Infinite - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRjNMQZ1qBk

Dat floating dystopia man
Edited by Idsynchrono_24 - 1/31/13 at 11:26am
post #5336 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

So it never came to your mind that it's YOU who finds his views naive and tragic? And it doesn't mean that they ARE like you perceive them.

 

Of course it's me who finds his views naive and tragic. I'm not delusional enough to think that makes them so. It's obviously my opinion.

 

However I'm not alone in that opinion. There are other commentaries written on von Balthasar to that effect. See Corinne Crammer's article "One Sex or Two? Balthasar's Theology of the Sexes."

 

Obviously there's no definitive interpretation of von Balthasar. Or any author.

post #5337 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post

 And although mutabor's posts are pretty transparent as troll bait you should engage him with some civility or just ignore him. Telling him to go back to his cave and linking gifs of flipping him the bird is a pretty lazy rebuttal.

 

No I'm not a troll. You were made to believe that I'm a troll.

post #5338 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Of course it's me who finds his views naive and tragic. I'm not delusional enough to think that makes them so. It's obviously my opinion.

 

However I'm not alone in that opinion. There are other commentaries written on von Balthasar to that effect. See Corinne Crammer's article "One Sex or Two? Balthasar's Theology of the Sexes."

 

Obviously there's no definitive interpretation of von Balthasar. Or any author.

 

Baltasar was not alone in his "prejudices". In Hinduism there are severe distinctions between men and women. In Orthodox church women are allowed to be only nuns. I'm not trying to persuade you in anything. I'm just trying to defend opposite opinion. 

 

You don't like Baltasar's views on gender. I find them fair. That's it. 

 

I'm asking what if his views were not prejudices but his sincere thoughts which came from his intuition? 

post #5339 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

Baltasar was not alone in his "prejudices". In Hinduism there are severe distinctions between men and women. In Orthodox church women are allowed to be only nuns. I'm not trying to persuade you in anything. I'm just trying to defend opposite opinion. 

 

You don't like Baltasar's views on gender. I find them fair. That's it. 

 

I'm asking what if his views were not prejudices but his sincere thoughts which came from his intuition? 

 

I'm not sure I'm following you. In fact, I even mentioned the restriction of women to being nuns in my original argument. It was by no means targeting von Balthasar alone. I also wasn't suggesting for a moment that von Balthasar was alone in his views on gender. In fact, they come from a very long tradition and have plenty of precedent. I have no doubt they're founded on his research and reflection.

 

You seem to be suggesting prejudices can't be sincere? They certainly can be.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

You were made to believe that I'm a troll.

 

You also seem to be suggesting that he couldn't have possibly come to that conclusion on his own. 

 

LOL. You seem to be giving me a lot of credit for corrupting the minds of the people who read this thread.

post #5340 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

No I'm not a troll.

 

One of the very few things that I agree with you during the last few pages. Declaring you a troll strikes me as taking the easy way out. I think your arguments ought to be taken seriously, or not commented on at all.

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