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post #526 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post


How did he justified the whole monad/dyad thing? Where did the second nature come from? And if this is getting too far into the weeds, can you suggest a good source to read him?

 

The monad / dyad thing actually goes pretty far back to Ancient Greek philosophy. As for Balthasar's usage of it, it has to do with "the two roles of woman," ie. as both bride and mother. She is seen as the "answer" to man, the principle which supposedly completes him, as well as the source in terms of birth as a creative capacity. Balthasar uses the concept of "ossiclation" to try and argue that woman is both equal to man insofar as she too is human, yet subordinent to him at the same time due to her dyadic nature. Apparently man as monad has an inner unity and thus does not experience this ossiclate, has no comparable experience with which to relate to woman.

 

For Balthasar, receptivity, yielding, and obedience are distinctly feminine qualities whereas leadership and representation are masculine. That sort of goes back to the Church being seen as "the bride of Christ" in its obedience and receptivity to the Word.

 

Of course, one wonders how Balthasar can conveniently ignore the dual role of man as father and bridegroom, which would make him of a dyadic nature as well.


Edited by MuppetFace - 9/15/12 at 4:25pm
post #527 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Von Balthasar was a 20th century Catholic theologian 

 

He was pretty kind in his observations. For example, more famous and influential Arthur Schopenhauer was more extremist in this sense.

 

Arthur Schopenhauer "On women"


Edited by mutabor - 9/15/12 at 4:37pm
post #528 of 21760
I have to admit I was not a Supertramp fan until Breakfast In America came out, and I always thought The Logical Song was a great pop tune - one those songs you ALWAYS sang along with. It was only then that I "discovered" Crime of The Century. I'm also a sucker for a good sax in a rock song, and John Helliwell certainly delivers.
post #529 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

 

He was pretty kind in his observations. For example, more famous and influential Arthur Schopenhauer was more extremist in this sense.

 

Yes, as I recall you are fond of Schopenhauer.

 

I mentioned Balthasar specifically because of the reference to "gender at a cellular level." I wasn't trying to cite him as an example of extremist views, though among 20th century theologians his is one of the more curious.

 

But anyways, Schopenhauer is weaksauce compared to Weininger. Anyone wanting to read one of the most misogynist works ever written should check out Sex and Character.

post #530 of 21760
I have always suspected the church has struggled with the need for the existence of both man & woman. They *started* from the belief that woman was created to be a companion of man - and they seemed to have pretty much gone downhill from there. Has there ever been a bigger opponent to women than organized religion? I suppose maybe Disney... tongue.gif
post #531 of 21760

Lets not forget the orignal cell phone ;)

 

I remember my Aunty use to rock one of these back in the early 90s.

 

 


Edited by lee730 - 9/15/12 at 4:45pm
post #532 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

But anyways, Schopenhauer is weaksauce compared to Weininger. Anyone wanting to read one of the most misogynist works ever written should check out Sex and Character.

 

Balthasar ( Swiss), Schopenhauer ( German), Weininger ( Austrian), Immanuel Kant was never married

 

wink_face.gif


Edited by mutabor - 9/15/12 at 4:50pm
post #533 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

The monad / dyad thing actually goes pretty far back to Ancient Greek philosophy. As for Balthasar's usage of it, it has to do with "the two roles of woman," ie. as both bride and mother. She is seen as the "answer" to man, the principle which supposedly completes him, as well as the source in terms of birth as a creative capacity. Balthasar uses the concept of "ossiclation" to try and argue that woman is both equal to man insofar as she too is human, yet subordinent to him at the same time due to her dyadic nature. Apparently man as monad has an inner unity and thus does not experience this ossiclate, has no comparable experience with which to relate to woman.

For Balthasar, receptivity, yielding, and obedience are distinctly feminine qualities whereas leadership and representation are masculine. That sort of goes back to the Church being seen as "the bride of Christ" in its obedience and receptivity to the Word.

Of course, one wonders how Balthasar can conveniently ignore the dual role of man as father and bridegroom, which would make him of a dyadic nature as well.
IIRC the roles for women and men are reflected in archetypes as well

Maiden = Hero
Wife/Mother = Warrior
Wise Woman = Wise Man

I can see as a church theologian how man would have to be "complete" without women, otherwise you'd have an institution run by the incomplete and therefore imperfect.
post #534 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

Balthasar ( Swiss), Schopenhauer ( German), Weininger ( Austrian) 

?

wink_face.gif

All the sausages & sauerkraut messed with their heads...
post #535 of 21760

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Edited by music_4321 - 9/16/12 at 4:31am
post #536 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post


I can see as a church theologian how man would have to be "complete" without women, otherwise you'd have an institution run by the incomplete and therefore imperfect.

 

It's a pretty complicated issue, as Balthasar does say that woman is there to complete man. In a sense man does depend on woman, and woman depends on man (Balthasar calls woman the "answer" --- she says "yes" in her passivity and receptiveness; mind-bendingly enough Balthasar seemed to believe that in every culture and every context it was always man who initiated sex and woman who was to be receptive.).

 

Still, for some reason man is seen as more unified and not split between the two roles as woman is (which is kind of conveniently ignoring man's multiple roles as well). The biggest argument Balthasar gives for why man should be in the priesthood and not woman is that man is the only one of the two capable of representing that which he is not, ie. the Divine (Christ is necessarily male for Balthasar, and also in man's "role" in initiating he is imitating the Father's generation of the Son). Woman on the other hand is only able to ever be herself.

 

So... yeah. Didn't mean to get into it that much, but it's fascinating.

post #537 of 21760
Is it just me, or does that KC song sound like it was recorded on one of these? Was it like that on the original, or does whoever ripped that need some VU meters?

post #538 of 21760

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Edited by music_4321 - 9/16/12 at 4:33am
post #539 of 21760

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Edited by music_4321 - 9/16/12 at 4:31am
post #540 of 21760
Ahhh - bootleg - gotcha - yeah, for a bootleg it's good. Any bootleg that doesn't have the sound of someone barfing in the background is a good bootleg... tongue.gif
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