Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 315  

post #4711 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

 

I don't know about you, but personally I would much rather someone listen to a dedicated display unit to determine whether he/she likes the sound of something than simply buy something without hearing it first and possibly end up returning it.

 

In a job interview, there is an unspoken understanding between participants that a position is being offered. I have a sneaking suspicion that the folks at Jaben, by contrast, realize most people listening to the demo units aren't going to end up buying the product. Yet they offer them anyway, and in a sense they benefit because it attracts people to the store.

That's my point, that there is an assumption that someone coming in to audition a product is in the market for that sort of thing, and has not already ruled out buying from that shop prior to even coming in for the audition. I think there's a difference between listening to the $400 xyz iems, e.g., and deciding they are not worth the money, but are good, and then discovering they are much less expensive elsewhere, and therefore worth the money, and buying them. Intention is important here.

post #4712 of 21761
Thread Starter 

My Stax SRS-002 should arrive later today. This morning I've been listening to the older SR-003, the at-home version of the S-001 portables, through my T1W with upgraded Japanese tubes (from Toshiba maybe?). These little things never fail to impress me; they really are mini SR-007s you shove into your ears. If they'd just isolate a bit better, they'd be pretty damn close to perfect in my book of things that are pretty damn close to perfect. Plus I learned something cool I had hitherto never realized: their cables are detachable. In theory one could switch out the pro bias one for a portable one, so I'm hoping I can use the older earphones on my newer pocket amp as well.

 

Now that more people are getting portable Staxen, I wonder if a group buy of sorts could be organized to get custom tips for them....

post #4713 of 21761

A lot of the audio stores in my city closed up shop because they couldn't compete with the online mega retailers. I guess the younger generations just don't value the in-store experience like I do. I miss being able to stroll into a hi-fi shop, shoot-the-breeze with the staff for an hour or two, and fondle the equipment with no pressure to buy. Sometimes, I think the world is moving forward just a bit too fast. Still, I can definitely see the attraction of online stores' low prices.

post #4714 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I don't think the job analogy is apt, because that's clearly a criminal action whereas trying a demo unit regardless of your intention is far from stringing someone along. If you're asking someone to take a product out of its box to demo it, sure. However an allocated demo unit is another matter entirely: it's there to be used, whether you do so or not. I find it much more troublesome that there are people who buy products from Amazon.com.jp to audition them, ie. their not knowing whether they want to keep it or not. Or in some cases have no intention of keeping it but just want to hear it. I've received more than a few items that seemed to have been used despite their being sold as new. If someone can try an allocated demo unit at another store before buying from an online retailer, then I'm all for it. 

 

Buying audio equipment without hearing it is an inherently risky proposition, and not everyone has the means of going to meets or trade shows. So long as you don't treat the store like a trade show and go around listening to a bunch of stuff you can't afford just for the hell of it, I don't really see a problem with using allocated floor equipment to gain insight into what you're looking for. The stores in turn gain traffic and publicity. Also I'm not talking about appointment-only demos: Jaben to my knowledge offers demos of more expensive items if you arrange it first, and in that case, yeah, you should intend to buy it there if you like it because you're taking up someone's time. Someone is having to work to provide you with a demo (which does go back to the job analogy) versus just trying something that is there on display.

I should probably pint out that I am speaking as myself only here, and not as an employee of a retailer.(  I used to teach business ethics at the university-level, so that's the hat i'm wearing as i type this.

 

I think a lot of people assume that demos are provided free or at greatly reduced cost - which, in most cases they are not.  Once opened, they cannot/shouldn't be sold as new either.  You are not obligated to buy because you have demo-d, and you can return things you don't like.  We allow returns on most merchandise - that's your audition.  Once you get into the 'let's get one for the audio-buddy get-together and then return it', it's a different story, or returning turntable setup tools once you've mounted your cartridge.... "um, I'd like to return these jumper cables...."

 

 

I do think it is straightforwardly dishonest to audition someplace you have no intention to buy from - it's not e.g., an "Apple Store", company-owned for that purpose.  The allocated demo is not there as a public service, it's there to allow you to try it before you buy it from the dealer demoing it. We may simply agree to disagree, and i want this to be a civil and reasoned exchange of thoughts, and will not make any further comments.  thanks for listening....


Edited by fzman - 1/16/13 at 11:10am
post #4715 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fzman View Post

I should probably pint out that I am speaking as myself only here, and not as an employee of a retailer.(  I used to teach business ethics at the university-level, so that's the hat i'm wearing as i type this.

 

I think a lot of people assume that demos are provided free or at greatly reduced cost - which, in most cases they are not.  Once opened, they cannot/shouldn't be sold as new either.  You are not obligated to buy because you have demo-d, and you can return things you don't like.  We allow returns on most merchandise - that's your audition.  Once you get into the 'let's get one for the audio-buddy get-together and then return it', it's a different story, or returning turntable setup tools once you've mounted your cartridge.... "um, I'd like to return these jumper cables...."

 

 

I do think it is straightforwardly dishonest to audition someplace you have no intention to buy from - it's not e.g., an "Apple Store", company-owned for that purpose.  The allocated demo is not there as a public service, it's there to allow you to try it before you buy it from the dealer demoing it. We may simply agree to disagree, and i want this to be a civil and reasoned exchange of thoughts, and will not make any further comments.  thanks for listening....

 

This thread is usually pretty civil, so no worries there.

 

From my perspective, I see it this way: if there's a demo unit being offered to the general public, then usually the store is choosing to do so without any stipulations, knowing full well people are going to use it without some contractual obligation to buy it. I'm thinking specifically of the units or kiosks that are there in the open, on display, where the customer can serve his/herself without the assistance of an employee. Obviously the more expensive stuff from behind the counter is a different matter. You have to call ahead to schedule an appointment or ask someone to demo it, and in that case I agree it's asinine to do it with no intention of buying it there.

 

However I'm specifically talking about floor models, not the by-the-appointment stuff. They're there in the open for demoing regardless on who goes to use them, so I'm not seeing a problem with someone walking up to the open demo and using it even if there's no intention to buy it. Similarly if you walk into a record store, you'll find new music set up for people to listen to through headphones. Do you have to have an intent to buy the music even if you listen to a few tracks? I don't think so, personally.

 

I know that these units aren't free and that the store is opening the item to put it on display. However larger stores allocate that in their budgets, and typically they'll go on to re-sell them at discounted prices when a newer model comes along, so they recoup the cost somewhat (and pass savings onto customers), and they also recoup it in added interest / traffic / draw to the store.

 

I believe that Intent defines the nature of the action in question, sure. However I think it also depends on the context in which that intent is conveyed. When it comes to smaller stores and appointment-only auditions for instance, then I think it's wrong to take advantage of that. However I also think it's wrong to buy a product previously unheard to audition with the possibility of returning it if you don't like it. Shopping with online retailers then is a gamble unless you find a way to audition the product, and for some people store demos are the only means of doing so. I think the ideal solution for everyone involved would be to audition the product and if you like it, ask the retailer who let you audition it if they can price match the better price you found online. That way the retailer gets the sale for their allowing you the audition, and you get to save a bit of money.

post #4716 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

 

 

I believe that Intent defines the nature of the action in question, sure. However I think it also depends on the context in which that intent is conveyed. When it comes to smaller stores and appointment-only auditions for instance, then I think it's wrong to take advantage of that. However I also think it's wrong to buy a product previously unheard to audition with the possibility of returning it if you don't like it. Shopping with online retailers then is a gamble unless you find a way to audition the product, and for some people store demos are the only means of doing so. I think the ideal solution for everyone involved would be to audition the product and if you like it, ask the retailer who let you audition it if they can price match the better price you found online. That way the retailer gets the sale for their allowing you the audition, and you get to save a bit of money.

Guess I was mistaken about not responding, but i think I have the core of the issue here, and can articulate it fairly specifically.  What I am looking at is a fair distribution of costs and benefits to the participants in the system.  A customer who gets to hear before buying benefits from that option.  When a merchant sells merchandise at the asking price, he/she benefits, especially in contrast with the competition, who did not get the sale.  When an online retailer takes a return, it does cost something, but there may be a long-term benefit in that a customer will continue to purchase, knowing there is little risk if the product is not acceptable in some way or other.  If the same customer always or almost always returns items, or returns them in damaged or incomplete condition, then the seller can decide to nbo longer take orders from that customer.   Now, when the merchant that has demo samples available allows a demo, then loses a sale to an online merchant, the demo benefited the online merchant, but cost the demo-er.  that's where it is potentially bad/wrong/unfair...  in that the costs and benefits are not equitably allocated.  Especially when online forums promote the notion that people should audition at a store so they can save themselves potential return shipping fees once buy online.

post #4717 of 21761
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Perhaps both? VSONIC seems to have found a way to make it profitable, at least. The durability factor should most likely be the reason why Sony is going with liquid crystal rather than dead tree bark these days.

Ah... I see. Well, I didn't see any reason to take out the SA5000 as well... unless it was too expensive to keep on producing it, or they're making another flag (so very unlikely)? Atm, the best in production is probably the MA900 :s not a fan of the build though. 

post #4718 of 21761
I always try to give the store a chance to price match if they had demos to try. If the price is within about 10-15% I'll go for brick and mortar. I think of that 10% as the overhead for providing the demo model and for customers wrecking the demos, staff, rent, advice etc. it's probably higher than 10% but that's as high as Ill stretch. I agree that show rooming must be plenty frustrating for retailers (I worked part time in retail and I know how annoying it is) but its up to the retailers to leverage economies of scale and try to get better agreements from their suppliers.

This is actually a serious enough problem in Australia that the government has launched an inquiry (because committees and witch hunts fix these things obviously).

It's amazing when I go into electronics stores and see that some jerks have gone and pressed in the driver domes of every speaker. I've never seen anyone do it but I always wonder. A lot of the units are not child hight.
post #4719 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I always try to give the store a chance to price match if they had demos to try. If the price is within about 10-15% I'll go for brick and mortar. I think of that 10% as the overhead for providing the demo model and for customers wrecking the demos, staff, rent, advice etc. it's probably higher than 10% but that's as high as Ill stretch. I agree that show rooming must be plenty frustrating for retailers (I worked part time in retail and I know how annoying it is) but its up to the retailers to leverage economies of scale and try to get better agreements from their suppliers.

This is actually a serious enough problem in Australia that the government has launched an inquiry (because committees and witch hunts fix these things obviously).

It's amazing when I go into electronics stores and see that some jerks have gone and pressed in the driver domes of every speaker. I've never seen anyone do it but I always wonder. A lot of the units are not child hight.

Same here, But it changes depending on the price of the item, 10% of $100 is quite different from 10% of $5000. Only problem is sometimes I genuinely dont want to buy the particular item on sale for whatever reason other than price, so buying in thst case would be a big mistake, hence money I lost on Sony xba4.

People damaging equipment in stores is pretty horrid.
post #4720 of 21761
This also, I think, ties into the culture of the community. From where I'm from, Malaysia fyi, Internet purchase is kind of anew thing for most people, and most people wouldn't know where to look for deals in the internet. Couple that with the lack of easy local internet 'warehouse' of goods like Amazon and the steadfast nature of stores that won't even consider price-matching, most from that country, including me, will do what some here would consider 'malicious'.
post #4721 of 21761
Is it just me or has activity on head-fi really quietened down lately...
post #4722 of 21761
Maybe everybody's still hung over from New Year's celebrations.
post #4723 of 21761
In other news...

I finished my litz wire cable for the Hidition (which is to say, it's made of 60 individually insulated strands of 44 AWG wire per line; usually used for building AM radio antennas). Man, this sounds good. Also, it's absent much of the wire noise that makes the Hidition's own premium cable hard to love. Though it's not as rustle-free as Hidition's non-premium cable.

The Brainwavz IEM cases arrived from MP4Nation yesterday too. I'm liking these more than I expected; they're more compact than the Heir and Hidition manufacturer's cases they replace and the IEMs fit the Brainwavz cases better.

I still prefer the original manf's cases as standalone protective devices, but since I'm usually toting all my portable audio gear in a wooden box, they need to be protected from jostling about more than they need protection from heavy things trying to crush them.
post #4724 of 21761
Now that I think about it, I wonder if the relative quiet on Head-Fi lately is because CES didn't provide the usual torrent of interesting (mockably interesting or otherwise) products to discuss and speculate on.
post #4725 of 21761

I'm trying to figure out how much of an upgrade my Sony EX-600s bring in comparison to my cheap stuff like Brainwavz Beta.

 

Heh, cheap Betas ( $30) stand very well to EX-600s ( $150-180). The last sound a bit cleaner and detailed and that's all what I can say now ( received them today). Probably EX-600s have better potential in conjunction with a better source. I'm listening on a Sony notebook and a Sansa Clip+.


Edited by mutabor - 1/17/13 at 12:02pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2