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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 280  

post #4186 of 21760

Well I just came from a PM with the young bopper who bought my DT1350's. They arrived safe and sound at his place this morning and thus far he's really loving them. According to him and I quote " Its as good as the Amperiors in almost all aspect but without the slight sibilance. I feel like I can listen to these for hours! " end quote. Glad to see another happy head-fier. I can seriously see myself getting another pair of DT1350's in a year or two. Yes there was a lot they didn't do but they did enough to make me very happy when I had them. Oh well, time to explore a little more of this hobby. Can anyone recommend a good DT1350 killer lol.


Hey Maxvla good to see you back on the thread. Hows life and the family out in your corner of the world?


Edited by DigitalFreak - 12/28/12 at 7:12pm
post #4187 of 21760
Hey DF -

Doing fine, just busy with other interests. Pretty happy with my rig atm, so I'm mostly lurking these days, aside from organizing the upcoming Austin Texas meet.
post #4188 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

Hey DF -
Doing fine, just busy with other interests. Pretty happy with my rig atm, so I'm mostly lurking these days, aside from organizing the upcoming Austin Texas meet.


It's good to see you back my friend. You've missed a lot over the last little while. Believe it or not I finally manned up and decided to give CIEM's a try and ordered a 4A. If they work out I for see myself becoming a mini joe_average like head-fier lol.

post #4189 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


It's good to see you back my friend. You've missed a lot over the last little while. Believe it or not I finally manned up and decided to give CIEM's a try and ordered a 4A. If they work out I for see myself becoming a mini joe_average like head-fier lol.
For the sake of your wallet, I hope not! tongue.gif
post #4190 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

By miscellaneous I didn't mean to infer they were somehow unimportant, just that the sheer quantity of non-transparent Japanese headphones dwarfs those who are, IMO.

 

I never suggested that the headphones I was referring to as examples of my point outnumbered the counter examples. In fact, I've been referring to a specific niche, the examples of which are fairly small compared to the larger appeal of general consumer products and fashion headphones. I think you could argue that in any country, the "sheer quantity of non-transparent headphones dwarfs those that are."

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I guess what I'm taking exception to in your argument is that you are compartmentalizing then drawing a broad conclusion. You say certain headphones are engineered to be self contained and that they sort of don't count, then you bring up the more neutral lines of the companies and then make your argument based off those lines. I also think you might be widening the field a bit too much by including the SA3000/5000 and the entire line of AT ADs. Certainly the 3000/5000 share characteristics of the Qualia, but really are not revered in any way. Again with the AD series, the AD700 gets it's popularity due to it's price, and while it is a somewhat neutral headphone it clearly has limits. The models between it and the AD2000 are steps in the right direction, but really only the AD2000 has any magic. I don't have any experience with the CK and FA earphones, but wasn't it pretty much just one model of the CK that was wildly popular due to it's balanced signature? Once you start looking at the true icons of Japanese transparency your list gets rather short.

 

Actually, what I was doing was using some facets of Japanese culture to explain a particular phenomena I've noticed among high-end Japanese audio systems. Stax are a very good example, and though one might very reasonably argue that citing Stax as a primary example doesn't capture the Japanese audio market as a whole, it's kind of irrelevant because I'm not talking about the audio market as a whole. In the realm of pinnacle audio reproduction, Stax is one of Japan's flagships. Look at the rest of the audio-chain as handled by Stax: their amps are warm, tubey, musical. So much so that it's almost a point of contention with many head-fiers. Their headphones? Some of the most resolving and transparent ever made. The SRM-727 for as flawed as it is an amp, as well as its predecessor the SRM-717 and the SRM-007t, are pretty much designed to counter-balance. Same thing with Sony's pinnacle headphones and their source components. Similarly one finds in Shindo Labs and Kondo Audio Note source components that are warm, analog, almost "vintage" sounding while their speakers are incredibly resolving and transparent.

 

My original argument was about high-end audio. The colored gear you mentioned---wooden Audio-Technicas, Denons, etc----simply isn't on the same level as the above examples. That's why I included them in categories like collectibles, mass market goods, and fashion headphones. It wasn't meant to dismiss them at all, but rather to say that once you get out of the realm of uber-audio reproduction, there's just too much going on to make sweeping generalizations. That doesn't mean one can't still discern similar threads running throughout. The SA3000 / SA5000 may not be revered (though I'd actually argue that in some circles they are!), but they're certainly well known as audiophile headphone products from Japan. Not summit-fi, but audiophile nonetheless. Same with the AD2000.

 

My point was never to look for "true icons of Japanese transparency" anyway. That's where I think you're misunderstanding my point: I'm not saying most Japanese headphones are transparent. My point was that high-end Japanese gear upstream is usually colored a certain way, and that the headphones and speakers that get paired with it tend to get out of the way and let that come through in the playback. It seems to me like these companies design their gear with the entire system in mind.

 

That's why I said the more mass-market audio is often "self-contained." It's less likely you'll find people building entire systems around it, or that it's meant to be integrated into a specific system. These products are often designed to sound "good" when you play them out of an iPod or another gumstick DAP. Pop music, symphonic rock, and mainstream vocals are popular in Japan and so this gear is often voiced with an emphasis on romantic midrange and sparkly treble. Or in other cases lotsa bass (though that seems to be more of a US thing? Iunno.).

 


Edited by MuppetFace - 12/28/12 at 7:47pm
post #4191 of 21760

I've seen this type of debating in other threads and have seen where it leads. Right now I'm wondering who will be the first to post "Alright then give me an example of a headphone that's perfectly neutral. There isn't any because there's no such thing as true neutrality or a true definition on what should be considered neutral".

 

Don't mind me you two I'm all eyes on the screen so please continue on.

popcorn.gif

post #4192 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

I've seen this type of debating in other threads and have seen where it leads. Right now I'm wondering who will be the first to post "Alright then give me an example of a headphone that's perfectly neutral. There isn't any because there's no such thing as true neutrality or a true definition on what should be considered neutral".

 

Don't mind me you two I'm all eyes on the screen so please continue on.

popcorn.gif

 

Actually, the whole "neutrality" issue wasn't even that important a part of my original point. I think focusing on it kind of detracts from what I was saying, TBH.  

 

It was more about holistic implementation and viewing source components as part of audio recreation, not simply a vector through which audio comes. In fact, you see this even with some of those "highly colored" headphones: the legendary pairing of Audio-Technica's woodies with Yamamoto Sound Craft amps for instance. Both are fairly colored, but they're voiced in such a way that is complementary to one another. It's the whole picture. My musings on the headphones being the least colored in the chain on certain systems was meant as a general reflection, noting the contrast to a certain ideology that corresponds with the above-mentioned "vector" approach: that the source needs to be the most transparent, and as you go down the chain you can add some flavor. It seems like a lot of the values one finds in Japanese high-end audio encourages the opposite approach.

 

I also don't think the recent "German approach" you see in headphones like Ultrasone and some of Sennheiser's gear is really synonymous with natural sound, but that's another argument altogether. I will simply say again that in the really high end Japanese gear I've heard, music is presented in a way that goes against that audiophile stereotype of hyper-resolving, picking apart details, fixating on singularities, etc. It's still accurate---and I don't meant to suggest it's bloated and mushy (which Luxman and Leben *can* sometimes be guilty of)---but rather that you just want to listen to the music rather than pick it apart. It just sounds... right. Incidentally, the last headphone I heard that did this really well was a German headphone: the Float QA. Running off a Japanese amp lol.

post #4193 of 21760
That makes more sense when you break it down. I was confused by your high end statement since the entirety of AT's wooden line up is more expensive than the rest of their headphones, and more expensive than headphones like the SA pair.

@ DF

Won't happen here. Not interested in a pissing match, just a good conversation.
post #4194 of 21760
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

That makes more sense when you break it down. I was confused by your high end statement since the entirety of AT's wooden line up is more expensive than the rest of their headphones, and more expensive than headphones like the SA pair.
 

 

Yeah, the Japanese market has a pretty strong collectors niche that encourages limited editions like the wooden headphones. Similarly Final Audio's Piano Forte line includes some of the most expensive universal earphones in the world (the X-CG is the most expensive I believe), but they're extremely colored products, almost to the point of being novelties: they're voiced to sound like vintage radios. I think most audiophiles would be befuddled by that.

post #4195 of 21760

No no no a pissing match is not what I was hoping would happen. I just simply enjoy reading debate posts from two people who know what they're talking about. I usually wind up learning a few things in the process.

post #4196 of 21760

 

 

I have an iPod that is perfectly audiophilialy neutral. Plus my Beats fully compliment it with its neutral sound. There is no need for that "battery pack" dingy you have beneath yours. And those earbuds of yours are garbage. Trust me, I'm an Apple Store Genius.

 

 

I recommend you guys watch this. It is hilarous:

http://screen.yahoo.com/beets-by-dre-29130452.html


Edited by bowei006 - 12/28/12 at 8:21pm
post #4197 of 21760

I got my Stello U3 today and my Aqvox USB power supply is coming in 10-20 days. 

 

Something's definitely different here, but I'm holding off on giving any real impressions until I've listened to it a bit more.  My earliest impressions of gear are often meaningless, especially when I haven't been listening to headphones much for a few days prior.  I always have to readjust to that first.

post #4198 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post

 

 

I have an iPod that is perfectly audiophilialy neutral. Plus my Beats fully compliment it with its neutral sound. There is no need for that "battery pack" dingy you have beneath yours. And those earbuds of yours are garbage. Trust me, I'm an Apple Store Genius.

 

 

I recommend you guys watch this. It is hilarous:

http://screen.yahoo.com/beets-by-dre-29130452.html


That actually happened to me once.

post #4199 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


That actually happened to me once.

I know etysmile.gif Which is why I paraphrased the story

 

Anyway, check out the video. I found it hilarious.

post #4200 of 21760

I think I'm gonna take a shot at this "year in reflection" thing.

 

2012: A Head-Fi Retrospective

 

This year was a very interesting one for me with respect to music. I spent a few thousand dollars (quite a bit for a poor high school senior) altogether on audio gear and even more on collecting music. This post, however, will focus only on the equipment. In no particular order of importance:

 

Biggest Suprise -  I can't wear universal in-ear monitors. This came as a nasty shock. I learned that my right ear canal is so different, in shape and/or size, that universal IEMs don't seal properly in my right ear and so isolation suffers, big-time.

 

In Response to Above - I purchased the Heir Audio 4.A and will never look back. I simply refuse to try universal in-ears anymore. Not only is the seal correct now, but I preferred the sound to my GR07 Mk II (sold it to a friend) and it is so comfortable that I've been able to wear it for more than six hours without a problem. That's something that universals never offered me.

 

Best Investment -  Probably the aforementioned 4.A.

 

Discoveries -  I've always been interested in the differences between different types of drivers and designs in headphones and have spent a good deal of time and money this year acquiring some different things. With the HD600, 4.A and my most recent addition, T50RP Mad Dogs, I have three designs covered. I only just received the Mad Dogs today, but I can already tell that these are some pretty special headphones. There might really be something to this planar magnetic design. Also, being a professional modification on an existing headphone, I guess I might have to start taking mods pretty seriously. I can't say this with any real certainty at the moment, but I think these may eliminate my need for the HD600 entirely. If that should happen, I guess I should start my mother on her way to taking an audio journey of her own... tongue.gif

 

Disappointments -  EPH-100. It was a respectable IEM, to be sure, but the sound signature was not really my thing, and I strongly disagree with the hypetrain that had me thinking these were better than GR07. Not worth $130. Also, GR07 Mk II. It's sound was incredible, but this IEM was the one that brought my attention to my problem with universal IEMs, so it was disappointing in the sense that my time spent with it was not long enough and I didn't get all the enjoyment out of it that I'd hoped for.

 

Miscellaneous - My jazz and metal collections are growing pretty quickly. Also, my friend recorded a piano EP and another friend of mine is planning on recording her second album sometime soon. I'm still in need of more and more music, so if anybody wants to just throw out random recommendations, regardless of genre (except popular country, please - not a fan), please PM me. I would appreciate input from any one of you in this thread.

 

Thanks - To MF for making this thread and for all the regulars here who make it such an enjoyable little corner of this forum. It has a nice atmosphere and is one of the few parts of Head-Fi that I genuinely enjoy checking on regularly. I hope that in the new year, I'll be a little more active in the discussions going on in here.

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