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post #21196 of 21760

I wasn't impressed with the prototype... mainly because of the shape.  Note to all, it does NOT fit comfortably in your pocket.

 

 


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post #21197 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post
 

I wasn't impressed with the prototype... mainly because of the shape.  Note to all, it does NOT fit comfortably in your pocket.

 

 

 

Not recommended for the "skinny jeans" set, then? :D

post #21198 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post
 

I wasn't impressed with the prototype... mainly because of the shape.  Note to all, it does NOT fit comfortably in your pocket.

 

 

well there goes my dream for a cheap player with lots of storage :(

post #21199 of 21760

That thing looks...massive. As in at least once again as big as I was imagining just from seeing the promotional shots, without a hand nearby for scale. Looking at the specs S.O. posted, I guess it really is that big. The iPod got away with having a large footprint because even the original model was thinner than that thing at its thickest point.

 

I hate coming across so cynical, but the form factor does seem to be bogging this thing down before it even gets out of the gate. I imagine a future "mini" version might be inevitable at this point, provided the project catches on well enough to warrant iterating and expanding the hardware line.

post #21200 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by veyrongatti View Post

The pono sounds too good to be true..... An 128gb music player for half the price of the ak120 tongue.gif looks like I found just the thing to replace my iPod classic when it dies XD

 

If it sounds too good to be true...

 

Rumour is Pono is plagued by DRM, can only be played on Pono software and Pono hardware.  I'd stay the hell away.

post #21201 of 21760

I predict a future in head-fi full of "Is that a pono in your pocket or are you to happy to see me?" jokes and pictures.

post #21202 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

What I'm trying to understand is, will the Ponoplayer play any music or only files from the Pono store?

It plays all the usual audio formats: FLAC, MP3, WAV, AAC, ALAC...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

That thing looks...massive. As in at least once again as big as I was imagining just from seeing the promotional shots, without a hand nearby for scale. Looking at the specs S.O. posted, I guess it really is that big. The iPod got away with having a large footprint because even the original model was thinner than that thing at its thickest point.

The iPod was smaller than its competitors at the time, and it's probably smaller than the Pono (hard to make an exact comparison since the shapes are so different). It's mostly the miniaturization of storage that has made subsequent portable players smaller-yet. These days I don't know if anybody besides Apple even makes a disk-based portable player any more.

One of Pono's selling points is supposed to be that it doesn't use miniaturized surface-mount electronic components that would compromise the sound. There are a couple shots of prototype boards on the Kickstarter page that includes the same peanut-sized capacitors that iPod circuit hackers use when they're bypassing the onboard preamp stage. Those suckers take a lot of room at portable device scale.

In terms of size, I dunno. It looks smaller than HiFIMan's portables. It is probably less massive than an iPod + third party amp. It might or might not be as unwieldy. Depends on how you use it, I guess. It's not going to fit in a shirt pocket, but neither would an iPod->amp combo. Unless you make your shirts out of parachute pants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drez View Post

Rumour is Pono is plagued by DRM, can only be played on Pono software and Pono hardware.  I'd stay the hell away.

The Pono hardware is not constrained to purchases from the Pono store. Just like Apple's portable devices, you can load up any random music file you got from wherever. (And unlike Apple's portable devices, these support FLAC natively).

As for whether purchases from the Pono store are DRM'd, I dunno but I'm skeptical. Pono is supposed to be selling only high-res FLAC files, and I don't recall the FLAC file format being DRM-able.

There are a lot of good reasons for not buying a Pono but vendor lock-in and DRM are the least relevant concerns. The problems either don't exist or at worst are by design easy to avoid.

Relevant concerns -- relevant to me, anyway -- are the quality of the UI and controls, the quality of the sound, battery life and durability. Eight hours is a pretty poor charge life. A laggy or balky touch screen UI is a whole lot more annoying than a laggy or balky button-based UI. I'm very firmly on the fence about buying one, myself, having more to do with my current portable players mostly collecting dust these past couple months. But I'll confess to spending some time trying to think up excuses to myself to get one anyway.
Edited by ardgedee - 3/14/14 at 5:01am
post #21203 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

As for whether purchases from the Pono store are DRM'd, I dunno but I'm skeptical. Pono is supposed to be selling only high-res FLAC files, and I don't recall the FLAC file format being DRM-able.

There are a lot of good reasons for not buying a Pono but vendor lock-in and DRM are the least relevant concerns.

Relevant concerns -- relevant to me, anyway -- are the quality of the UI and controls, the quality of the sound, battery life and durability. Eight hours is a pretty poor charge life. A laggy or balky touch screen UI is a whole lot more annoying than a laggy or balky button-based UI. I'm very firmly on the fence about buying one, myself, having more to do with my current portable players mostly collecting dust these past couple months. But I'll confess to spending some time trying to think up excuses to myself to get one anyway.

 

I'm hoping that's true re using FLAC, I had the same thought that FLAC doesn't support DRM but this rumour was circulating a while back.  Personally I'm waiting to see how a DAP with Sabre DAC and chip amp will turn out.

 

As far as my current musical tastes go theres plenty of digital distribution of classical music and jazz in lossless, but heavy metal is terrible for finding legitimate means to access digital downloads.  I'm not sure if Pono will do much to help that sector of the music industry...

 

I think the main problem with recordings these days is the compression used in mastering, high res is great but wouldn't it be awesome of the production was done with decent dynamic range right away rather than needing to be remastered for audiophiles?

post #21204 of 21760
PonoMusic will be selling their files in FLAC. Their FAQ's state unequivocally that there will be no DRM. The player seems to be the bargain of the decade right now.

In interviews Neil mentions dynamic compression over and over and using the original masters to create the digital files from. However the kickstarter page has yet to address this specifically. Until then I remain hopeful but skeptical.
post #21205 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

PonoMusic will be selling their files in FLAC. Their FAQ's state unequivocally that there will be no DRM. The player seems to be the bargain of the decade right now.

In interviews Neil mentions dynamic compression over and over and using the original masters to create the digital files from. However the kickstarter page has yet to address this specifically. Until then I remain hopeful but skeptical.

We already have a very well established hi-rez stores online. I do not think pono will be an amazing sounding gear for the seasoned head-fi users. Its content will most likely be just another licening of what is already avaliable on hdtracks and other 24/192 stores. It is probably be great for most folks who have never heard any other DAP beside their iphones but for the rest of us I think it will be just another experiment that has nothing major to offer.

 

I think the importance of pono movement is more on the recording side of things, the movement that request the recording engineers to maintain the same quality of recording to the "pre 70s" level. I don't think we will see the benefits of the pono movement anytime soon.

 

I hope at least we will see a nice competition for hd files, maybe a major price reduction on the current contents?

post #21206 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by audionewbi View Post
 

We already have a very well established hi-rez stores online. I do not think pono will be an amazing sounding gear for the seasoned head-fi users. Its content will most likely be just another licening of what is already avaliable on hdtracks and other 24/192 stores. It is probably be great for most folks who have never heard any other DAP beside their iphones but for the rest of us I think it will be just another experiment that has nothing major to offer.

 

I think the importance of pono movement is more on the recording side of things, the movement that request the recording engineers to maintain the same quality of recording to the "pre 70s" level. I don't think we will see the benefits of the pono movement anytime soon.

 

I hope at least we will see a nice competition for hd files, maybe a major price reduction on the current contents?

 

 

I think it could be good if they manage to get more albums remastered, I think a lot of the hi-res albums can be found across hdtracks, quobuz, LinnRecords so even if not using Pono service the other channels might benefit if Pono can get music remastered.

 

I don't think it will be a bad thing, put it that way, if it distributes music in FLAC without DRM as they promise.  The player could be good, but would be good if they offer more info on measurements or the hardware they're using or planning to use.  The storage capacity is a good start, but it's a bit of a no-brainer if you're making a DAP to use with hi-res music.

 

Maybe if the project gets prosumers into hifi then that could be good for the industry as well.  Not sure if it will appeal to hipsters though.  Seems they are more interested in vinyl and cassette tapes.

post #21207 of 21760
The player that most have heard is based on their early work with merdian. If you a compare internal of pono and merdian explorer it looks very similar . I seems like they are no longer working with merdian and Ayer is taking over ponos design.
Edited by audionewbi - 6/22/14 at 1:11am
post #21208 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

PonoMusic will be selling their files in FLAC. Their FAQ's state unequivocally that there will be no DRM. The player seems to be the bargain of the decade right now.

In interviews Neil mentions dynamic compression over and over and using the original masters to create the digital files from. However the kickstarter page has yet to address this specifically. Until then I remain hopeful but skeptical.
I am also skeptical on accessing the original mastering. Honestly many albums I own sound like crap because they are produced as such, with a dirty sound. Some indie rock or punk albums can be Hirez all they want, they will not be Jazz at the Pawnshop.

I do not understand your bargain of the decade...what does this toblerone dildo bring to market that X5 or DX90 or even ZX1 does not?
post #21209 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

I am also skeptical on accessing the original mastering. Honestly many albums I own sound like crap because they are produced as such, with a dirty sound. Some indie rock or punk albums can be Hirez all they want, they will not be Jazz at the Pawnshop.

I do not understand your bargain of the decade...what does this toblerone dildo bring to market that X5 or DX90 or even ZX1 does not?

Yeah Neil talks about low quality original masters in his Esquire interview. Nothing can be done there.

I'm talking about the supposed es9018 dac chip being used. Assuming that's correct, there is greater potential for implementation than say a dual es9018-2m. The larger, odd shaped housing lets them work with larger quality components like cap size, discrete components and battery implementation.

Taking all that into account and getting one for $200 or $300 seems like a complete steal to me. With Ayre involved, I'd hope this to clearly surpass say Herus SQ. At this point it's a gamble without definitive specifications but I see it as a cheap and fairly calculated gamble.

Edit: even if it ends up being the 2m mobile version, it still ends up being much cheaper than what the marketplace has right now. Competition is good.
Edited by shotgunshane - 3/14/14 at 8:40am
post #21210 of 21760
To answer a few questions, Meridian dropped out of the project awhile ago and Ayer are now the ones who had a say in the final Pono design.

It states quite clearly on the Pono FAQ that all files downloaded from the Pono store
Will be DRM free and the player will support the vast majority of files (FLAC AAC WAV etc) that's commonly used. Their pricing of the store files will vary from 14.99 for 16 bit to as high as 25 for 24 bit high res.

My view is Pono will have a hard uphill battle to fight if it wants to gain any traction. First, it has to convince the average consumer that paying for high res is worth it and, as stated before on this thread, it has to actually provide content that would benefit from high res. If the files you download are just 24 bit versions of songs that are victims of the loudness wars then what's the point.

I'm gonna do a video about all this tonight. The Pono announcement has everyone talking and thinking. Even if it's a failure I'm impressed that the project has been able to get do many people thinking about the possibilities.

@Warren
You've heard the Pono, is this a well done neutralish sounding player or are we talking standard mainstream bassy warm sig with rolled off highs?
Edited by DigitalFreak - 3/14/14 at 8:49am
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