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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 1192  

post #17866 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Even if that wasn't the case, why assume bringing up gender is an attempt at being edgy in the first place? If anything I think that speaks more toward Internet culture. On the Internet we (in the collective sense) tend to assume gender talk is an attempt by people to get attention.

 

 

The song as a whole has a rather psychotic tone and the video and has a fair amount of overt, edgy stuff going on unrelated to gender identity, like that woman peeing in a parking space for whatever reason.  When I see themes of gender identity represented in a song like that, I think they're trying to be edgy with it?  I mean, I don't find a video with people in drag edgy because I'm actually accustomed to it, but it seems clear it's supposed to be revolutionary or unsettling in its own right when everything else in the video kinda is? 

 

 

Quote:
 There's been some controversy there in recent years about policies toward transgendered people that require them to be sterilized.

 

I actually didn't know this and that sounds horrific.  I think the assumption on my part was that this stuff's less controversial in Sweden than it is here as that's the vibe I usually get from Europeans.  Sorry!

post #17867 of 21761
I thought Sweden was one of the more progressive countries on Europe. When did these sterilization laws come onto effect?
post #17868 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

I thought Sweden was one of the more progressive countries on Europe. When did these sterilization laws come onto effect?



Wow that's just wrong.... :(. What is wrong with people these days? It's these individuals lives and a personal choice. It  has nothing to do with other people and their lives. I think too many people are too insecure with themselves and act like idiots because of it. While we're on the subject wouldn't it make more sense to sterilize hardcore criminals so they don't continue the cycle?


Edited by lee730 - 8/31/13 at 3:52pm
post #17869 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by driver 8 View Post

 

The song as a whole has a rather psychotic tone and the video and has a fair amount of overt, edgy stuff going on unrelated to gender identity, like that woman peeing in a parking space for whatever reason.  When I see themes of gender identity represented in a song like that, I think they're trying to be edgy with it?  I mean, I don't find a video with people in drag edgy because I'm actually accustomed to it, but it seems clear it's supposed to be revolutionary or unsettling in its own right when everything else in the video kinda is? 

 

 

 

 

Hmm. To me, I never really got the sense the video was presenting gender as a topic as edgy itself. I don't see it as patting itself on the back just because it's showing queer people. Again, the "let's talk about gender" line is a parody of "let's talk about sex." The overall subject of the song and the video seems to be identity as constructed through our deep---often taboo---desires ("what's your story?").

 

Gender is really the staging ground for the edgy stuff the video presents. The focus seemed to me to be more individuals who are marginalized by society for their desire. The queer imagery involved those who aren't as often overtly sexualized---older people, lower class people, less stereotypically attractive people---who are carrying out power struggle fantasies. The most obvious is the sexual domination in a run down lot. Then there's the sexualization of preexisting power relations between the protester and the law enforcement. There's also someone breaking glassware who is supposed to be cleaning it, a liberating act of self satisfying destruction, like a servant rebelling against the master, albeit in a mundane sort of "every day" way. Similarly the woman urinating in public is going against taboos of public excretion, but the fact that it's a woman who is squatting is significant in that it speaks to a wider taboo against female bodily fluids (like menstruation, a taboo which goes back to ancient times).

 

Really, there's trying to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy, and there's taking subject matter that is often regarded as edgy and exploring it (and the response it solicits) for some other end. Either way I'm sure plenty of folks will find it edgy (looking at YouTube's cesspool comments section this seems to be the case). In this specific case, I suspect The Knife's intentions have to do with the political climate in Sweden.

post #17870 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Actually I don't think that's an attempt at being edgy so much as a play on pop music of the past. The original song's lyrics were: "let's talk about sex baby; let's talk about you and me." In the original the term meant the act of carnal passion, but here they're playing on the fact that sex can also be used to mean biological sex.

 

Even if that wasn't the case, why assume bringing up gender is an attempt at being edgy in the first place? If anything I think that speaks more toward Internet culture. On the Internet we (in the collective sense) tend to assume gender talk is an attempt by people to get attention.

 

Also keep in mind The Knife is from Sweden. There's been some controversy there in recent years about policies toward transgendered people that require them to be sterilized.

 

But yeah, I have to say, the music itself on Shaking the Habitual is pretty edgy from a commercial pop standpoint. Kind of like The Flaming Lips' recent stuff. Sure, when you compare it to stuff on the bleeding edge of underground music it's nothing to get your knickers in a twist about, but in terms of music you can pick up at your local Best Buy, it's actually pretty far out there.


My understanding is that the sterilization law was overturned in Sweden.

 

I thought the pee in the parking lot was a "Curious Yellow" momentbiggrin.gif

post #17871 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post


Well there some good aspects...face to face interactions entail some good self censorship sometimes but allows the loudest to prevail. The web is often more democratic.


I'm not sure if  that's democracy or lowest common denominator.

post #17872 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Does anyone find it weird to say Sub'd when you subscribe to a thread? Who cares? Unless you have something interesting to say. Well it is just like in conversations, people often talk without pondering the interest of what they want to say.

Back to music...listening to The Knife's Deep Cuts album...damn I love them. I actually discovered them through Jose Gonzales' cover of Heartbeats on the incredible Veneer album. Swedish music rocks.

 

I think I discovered the Knife via this route too... but I'm not sure.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by driver 8 View Post

Man, I really like that album too

 

Though, with a few exceptions, I can't say I've been a fan of their newer sound from Silent Shout onward :/

 

I really loved Silent Shout, and the collab album Tomorrow in a Year was probably my favourite album of that year. I am not sure what I feel about Shaking the Habitual, I could not find myself getting into it as much sadly.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Also keep in mind The Knife is from Sweden. There's been some controversy there in recent years about policies toward transgendered people that require them to be sterilized.

 

That is both distressing and appalling. I hope that was the work of a very vocal minority.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

Really, there's trying to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy, and there's taking subject matter that is often regarded as edgy and exploring it (and the response it solicits) for some other end. Either way I'm sure plenty of folks will find it edgy (looking at YouTube's cesspool comments section this seems to be the case). In this specific case, I suspect The Knife's intentions have to do with the political climate in Sweden.

 

Really, I felt that there was a lack of subtlety in Shaking the Habitual, but then the Knife was very clear in interviews prior to the release of the album that they were going for an overt political message. Clearly they have advanced an agenda 'successfully' if, for instance, people like us are talking about it. So the question is kind of, is music as a medium a good platform for political messaging?

 

I'm never really sure since I often feel like music artists often pose really interesting questions in their music until they become self conscious about it, and then it goes from being subversive to vapid. (I don't necessarily feel that way about Shaking the Habitual but the music videos push it a little for me).

 

If you want to co-opt people you have to make them comfortable in some way first (or at least that is how my manipulative mind tends to think).

 

One of my favourite politically themed songs is Randy Newman's Jolly Coppers. Newman has made some pretty unsubtle stuff, and perhaps because of this Jolly Coppers is so interesting since it is just a song, sung from the perspective of a child, watching a police parade.

 

 

From his musical and personal statements, Newman is obviously a staunch progressive - but unlike his other music there is nothing overtly satirical or sarcastic in this particular song. People have gone so far as to describe this song as 'fascist' for that exact reason - it's just a nice little narrative about jolly coppers.

 

It's delightfully troubling because the satirical aura of the song only comes from Newman's other work and our own feelings about police and authority.

 

As far as the Knife goes, I think songs like "You Make me Like Charity" and "We Share Our Mother's Health" were all quite interesting because they are just so darn accessible and cryptic. 

post #17873 of 21761

re HE6 amplifier, IME they sound dynamically compressed even out of my 7WPC AudioGD Master6.  I mean they still sound lovely and lush but compared to HD800 they are compressed, a little loose in the bass and slightly muddled in the mids.  I do miss they lushness and beautiful tone.  If HifiMan are releasing a new flagship I am almost surely going to buy it, after I save up...frown.gif

 

re sterilising transgener persons thats unthinkably horrible, I would be very glad if it was repealed, but that it was passed in the first place...

 

re provocative themes in music, I think its fine as long as they don't offer too much judgement/commentry, people should be able to think for themselves.  For me though deliberately confrontational art isn't my thing, I don't like being nauseated.  I also don't feel like the shock factor is a particularly effective artistic medium to provoke any sort of meaningful thought.  If you try put people off, you will probably put people off...

 

Last night I was lucky enough to see La Traviata at the opera, I think the first I have seen in recent memory.  It kind of makes me wish I didn't spend so much on audio gear and instead bought season passes (by now I could have bought a lot...)  Unfortunately makes my system sound a bit crap - interestingly not in terms of detail or imaging, but more in terms of deilcacy, timing harmonic integrity and bloom.  Also I find I notice the treble peak in my HD800 quite a bit more.  I can see myself going to the opera regularly, probably just the cheap seats.

post #17874 of 21761

I haven't seem a picture of Randy Newman in quite awhile. Most of the pics I've seem of him were when he was a young musician during his hay day in the 70's. The guy now looks more like a librarian or old school teacher and not a songwriter.

post #17875 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

Really, I felt that there was a lack of subtlety in Shaking the Habitual, but then the Knife was very clear in interviews prior to the release of the album that they were going for an overt political message. Clearly they have advanced an agenda 'successfully' if, for instance, people like us are talking about it. So the question is kind of, is music as a medium a good platform for political messaging?

 

I'm never really sure since I often feel like music artists often pose really interesting questions in their music until they become self conscious about it, and then it goes from being subversive to vapid. (I don't necessarily feel that way about Shaking the Habitual but the music videos push it a little for me).

 

 

Music as a platform for political messaging has a long long history. A message is far easier to remember when put to music. Whether is be good or bad I guess depends on the source. I'd probably think about some political point made by Neil Young, whereas I would not give any thought at all to anything a Bieber, Britney, Selena spouted.

 

Look at the mileage Clinton and Obama got by co opting Bands into their political machines.

post #17876 of 21761

Bought a bottle of Fiji water today.

It tasted just like water. 

I'm not sure what else I expected.

post #17877 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Bought a bottle of Fiji water today.




It tasted just like water. 




I'm not sure what else I expected.

This is gonna sound nuts but was it cold, like right out of the fridge?
post #17878 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


This is gonna sound nuts but was it cold, like right out of the fridge?

 

Ha, yeah it was.

post #17879 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

I thought Sweden was one of the more progressive countries on Europe. When did these sterilization laws come onto effect?

There is no sterilization law for transgender people. They don't force sterilization upon transgenders.

 

1972 there was a requirement that you had to be sterile to get sex change care in Sweden (however not if you get it in another country). This requirement is now obsolete and no longer in use. Also, forced sterilization has been illegal since 1976 in Sweden.


Edited by Coq de Combat - 8/31/13 at 10:32pm
post #17880 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

Ha, yeah it was.

Lol. I've actually run this experiment before. I'm not guaranteeing any results but try doing a side by side with room temperature water.
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