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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 115  

post #1711 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrak View Post

interesting discussion.  for once i am caught up with you all so i can toss in my $.02.  in order to establish where i am coming from, let me first say that i don't care about (or for) lyrics.  perhaps it is because, as mutabor said earlier, english was not my primary language.  born and raised in south america i spoke, and thought, in spanish.  however, i did go to a bi-lingual K-12 school and then moved to the US immediately after graduating high school.  through lack of practice, i have gradually lost my ability to think in spanish and nowadays i have to dig deep for the right words in order to speak it these days.  so now i consider english to be my native language.

i always considered singing/voices as just another instrument.  as such, i tend to prefer instrumental music above all else.  however, this is clearly not very practical as the vast majority of music out there includes singing as does a large portion of my collection.  there's no "getting away" from singing.  i tend not to pay attention to lyrics until i know i like something very much and this can take years. only then do i get curious and wonder "what are these folks saying?".  and it is mostly just curiosity as it is highly likely that i will disagree with what they have to say or simply just not care  wink.gif  why?  because for me music is about the sound.  if the sound doesn't appeal to me i move on.  

this brings me to genres.  i really don't understand why so many are interested in defending/promoting a whole genre. yes, genres are loose labels used to group together similar music based on specific criteria.  however, that criteria still leaves a lot of room for variance from artist to artist and even from album to album from a single artist.  the fact that you like a given artist does not guarantee that you will like all the other artists in the genre.  this even extends to a specific album in that you will not necessarily like all the albums by a given artist.  yes, there's a good chance you will but it is not an automatic given.  for example, i am a huge grateful dead fan which would indicate that i am also a fan of 'the san francisco sound', psychedelia, 60's rock, and maybe even folk.  the answer is: not really.  yes and no.  i love floyd.  the airplane, not so much.  there are more bands in the 'not so much' column than in the 'love' column when it comes to those genres.  liking the grateful dead does not make me a fan of those genres any more than a fan of the genres may or may not be expected to also like the grateful dead.  or even to like them as much as i do.  sorry, that was a bit rambly and convoluted.  i hope it makes sense because there's more rambling coming up...

sound is what gets to me.  i think ardgedee and/or magick man touched on this earlier as well.  which brings me to rap, hip-hop and metal.  rap specifically has an attitude, a cadence and a repetitive nature that is an instant turn off for me.  nevermind the derivative nature of sampling (i forgot to mention that i value musicianship and originality above all else).  even so, when i do listen to the lyrics the subject matter is so far from my reality that i cannot identify with what they are saying.  while i may sympathize with the social issues they bring up, i really don't care to come home and listen to it for pleasure.  there are a few exceptions, although for the life of me i can't figure out why i like them, such as some michael franti, some woo tang clan songs and a handful of beasty boys songs.  there have been others but i cannot say what they are as i only heard them once or in passing at a friend's house or in a movie and, even then, didn't like them enough to hunt them down to find out what they were.  hip-hop on the other hand is more interesting to me.  particularly the instrumental stuff and especially if it is jazz based (yes, i know someone will ding me on the derivative bit wink.gif ).  again, this does not mean i like all hip-hop.  it only means i am more likely to find something appealing in that genre than in in rap.  metal is easier to explain and follows a similar path as others in the thread have mentioned.  i started listening to music in the 70's and basically grew up with the usual suspects: zeppelin, sabbath, deep purple, etc.  hard rock back then, later acid rock and eventually metal.  never did get into the harder stuff but my tastes will go so far as to include maiden, metallica and pantera but not priest or anthrax.  i do like a track or two from slayer though.  i also like other bands with a heavy, metal-ish sound that are not considered metal.  

does this make sense?  not until you step out of the fenced in area we call a genre.  genres, like all labels, are useful in conversation when the need for generalization and/or abstraction arises.  however, i don't feel it is very useful as a guide to what you may or may not like.

I want to push back at the notion of genres not being a useful jumping off point for discussion. It gives you a broad idea of what we're talking about, especially if you're not sharing videos. It's no guarantee of work being exactly the same, but it establishes parameters for discussion. I know that I don't like metal, for example. When I type that, there's a whole lot of information that gets conveyed. If someone says, "Hey, there's good Metal!" I won't disagree with them, but I know that the whole structure doesn't work for me. Note that I said, "I don't like metal." Not "Metal sucks."

That's the source of my defense of rap as a genre. People don't have to like it, but I think every genre, every band, even the ones that I don't care for, have their virtues that should be respected.

Except The Grateful Dead. tongue.gif
post #1712 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrak View Post

does this make sense?  not until you step out of the fenced in area we call a genre.  genres, like all labels, are useful in conversation when the need for generalization and/or abstraction arises.  however, i don't feel it is very useful as a guide to what you may or may not like.

 

I partially agree with you that there are big variations inside even one genre. But I can generalize from your opinion that you are not a fan of rap. You mentioned that you liked couple or three rap bands and only bits of them ( also I don't consider Beasty Boys a typical rap band, they are punks L3000.gif) so I can say that thrak doesn't really like rap and I will be correct.

 

<ding><ding><ding> give that man a cookie!.  thrak does not like rap! wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post

I want to push back at the notion of genres not being a useful jumping off point for discussion. It gives you a broad idea of what we're talking about, especially if you're not sharing videos. It's no guarantee of work being exactly the same, but it establishes parameters for discussion. I know that I don't like metal, for example. When I type that, there's a whole lot of information that gets conveyed. If someone says, "Hey, there's good Metal!" I won't disagree with them, but I know that the whole structure doesn't work for me. Note that I said, "I don't like metal." Not "Metal sucks."

That's the source of my defense of rap as a genre. People don't have to like it, but I think every genre, every band, even the ones that I don't care for, have their virtues that should be respected.

Except The Grateful Dead. tongue.gif

 

well, we are both kind of saying the same thing.  at worst we are splitting hairs.  as a jumping off point for discussion, yes, they are useful.  but only in very general terms.  however, for me, the final decision point comes when hearing a specific piece/artist/band.  i also agree with you in that there is a difference between good metal existing and you/me liking it.  by all accounts it appears that classical is good.  i won't argue that.  i will say i don't like it though wink.gif

 

by the way and just clear the air, i am not attacking rap.  actually, i only mentioned it because it and metal where the examples being discussed.  i can think of any number of other genres that dislike as well.  my point was mostly that even within genres that you may not like there may be examples that you do like.

 

come on now, no need to diss the good ol' grateful dead.  i know it's not everyone's cup o' tea but i won't hold that against you biggrin.gif

post #1713 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrak View Post



well, we are both kind of saying the same thing.  at worst we are splitting hairs.  as a jumping off point for discussion, yes, they are useful.  but only in very general terms.  however, for me, the final decision point comes when hearing a specific piece/artist/band.  i also agree with you in that there is a difference between good metal existing and you/me liking it.  by all accounts it appears that classical is good.  i won't argue that.  i will say i don't like it though wink.gif

by the way and just clear the air, i am not attacking rap.  actually, i only mentioned it because it and metal where the examples being discussed.  i can think of any number of other genres that dislike as well.  my point was mostly that even within genres that you may not like there may be examples that you do like.

come on now, no need to diss the good ol' grateful dead.  i know it's not everyone's cup o' tea but i won't hold that against you biggrin.gif

Yeah, we are more agreeing than not. I like most types of music, so I always bristle a little when people put complete areas down.

I am just not a jam band fan. I like jazz and other improvisational music, but endless guitar noodling has never done it for me. I will say I liked the two Americana sort of albums, Working Man's Dead and American Beauty, so I guess that proves your point.
post #1714 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

I love you mavs, but I really think you get way too nitpicky and meta-critical when it comes to gaming.

 

Some of it is pretty nitpicky.  Some of it kinda is asking for something that the game really isn't supposed to be.  I'm not saying that it has to ruin it for everyone or that they can't use it to end up telling a good story but it's just that I didn't like it.  I was never a fan of the gameplay, but I did like the story and atmosphere a lot so I kept playing the first one.  IMO ME2 starts out by chucking all that out the window and it pretty much ruins all my identification with my Shepard and all my desire to find out what happens next.

 

Maybe I could be 'overanalyzing' it or something and I know you like it a lot but I'm really not trying to tear it down or throw mud.  They're only my attempt to explain why I wasn't having fun with it.  It's very meta on purpose.  I'm trying to explain my emotional reaction to it and say something more substantive than "I didn't like it."  It's not like I'm sitting there scoring it with a checklist or something.  I started playing it but wasn't having much fun so afterwords I just thought about why.

post #1715 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post

Yeah, we are more agreeing than not. I like most types of music, so I always bristle a little when people put complete areas down.

I am just not a jam band fan. I like jazz and other improvisational music, but endless guitar noodling has never done it for me. I will say I liked the two Americana sort of albums, Working Man's Dead and American Beauty, so I guess that proves your point.

 

it further proves my point in another way.  the gd was around looong before the 'jam band' genre but for some reason (perhaps the, mostly sociological, association with phish) they have been lumped in there.  i personally don't like many 'jam bands'.  i do like some bands that have somehow been lumped into that genre however (allman brothers (blues, southern rock) and mmw (jazz, avant-garde) for example).  i would label the gd as americana, folk, blues, psychedelia, rock and r&b among any number of other genres.  imo there's self-indulgent noodling and then there's improvisation which i think you agree with.  i think, and please correct me if i am misguided here, that the label of 'jam band' (or whathaveyou as this applies to other genres and other bands as well) pre-defines what a new listener expects to hear when introduced to a new band so they tend to go into the experience with a pre-set idea of what it will be.  i find this does a disservice to the band by pigeon-holing (is that even a word?)  them into a pre-defined slot that they may or may not fit into.  this tends to prevent new listeners from fully appreciating an act for what it truly is rather than what it has been categorized as by who knows whom.

 

in any case, i want to thank you for the conversation.  it has been very pleasant as well as enlightening in that it has made me think about this in a new light.  i also dig that you liked some gd wink.gif

 

also, please forgive the nested text.  i'm an engineer and i write the way i think.


Edited by thrak - 10/11/12 at 5:25pm
post #1716 of 21760

Oh boy. Just skimmed through the last pages, haven't been able to get on as much.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I've accepted a new teaching position, which means I'll be moving out-of-state. I'm really excited.

 

But also nervous.

 

Congratulations! Everything I know about Portland really does come from Portlandia, in which case it seems like the kind of place that would be familiar to me. (It seems to bear close resemblance to Melbourne or the Sydney suburb of Surry Hills).

 

I hope you stay sane and healthy during this big move :3

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by compoopers View Post

For people who own or have tried the Fostex TH 900s:
I'm planning on buying these some time down the road if they are still available and I was wondering if anyone had amp recommendations. I need to factor it into my purchasing decision in terms of price.
thanks

 

Gosh, you're really moving up! Do you think by the time you can get them there won't already be some great successor?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

Am I the only one who thinks that album art showing up in the GUI is for the illiterate?

 

I especially hate cover flow.  It's like if I walked into a McDonalds and the first thing the cashier did was hand me the picture menu.

 

This seems a bit of an extreme position. While I don't use cover flow (it's a poor interface for selection I find) I do like to album art quite prominent in the interface. The album art helps me navigate a long playlist very fast when scrolling, and I just happen to really really like album art. I find a mosaic grid of all the album art I have actually somewhat comforting. Album art is literally enough for me to try an album out, or at least have an interest in it (despite the book / cover adage). It generally seems to point towards the direction of a band / artist, or at least orient my feelings towards the music.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

My visual/spacial memory is much stronger than my verbal memory. It's not a deficiency and it's not even unusual. I know every album I own, but more of them by artwork than by title. Cover flow might not be optimal, but text search is not optimal for anybody either.

 

^ I concur!

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

As you said, Metal is an acquired taste, and one that IMO often starts young, when music is a source of energy, motivation, and sometimes aggression.  I also think that people acquire different tastes in frequency balance and tone; Metal has a particular feel in that area, along with the concept of "distortion can be beautiful".

 

I love distortion, but I think I've said before - I can never really get into metal because I'm really never sure what mood or emotion it's meant to engender in me when I listen to it. (That isn't to say that I'm sure the entire genre is meant to create the same feeling). I've certainly tried to give it a fair shake because I have a friend who plays me metal albums all the time. Some of the stuff I find interestingly theatrical (like say Mr Bungle) but most of the times I feel like the music is trying to provoke an aggression or energy in me that I can't really find in myself.

 

My favourite metal track is that baby metal track that was posted in this thread many eons ago (if that even counts). I like it for purely ironic reasons. My friend hates it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

Oh that ain't nuthin'.  As of tonight, I am now the proud owner of a custom title!  Paint me giddy, call me happy, and beat that with a stick!  biggrin.gif

 

Grats!

post #1717 of 21760
I threw jam band in there because I thought it best captured what I don't like about the Grateful Dead. But you're right, it sets up certain expectations in the reader. And it turns out that readers don't necessarily share the same context. For example, I would never have thought of the Allman Brothers (who I like and wish I had seen back in the day) as a jam band, so thoroughly do I have them in my southern, blues inflected rock category drawer. The problem is that when you're trying to tell someone about a new band or song, you have to use these rough estimates and then focus with better examples as far as you can. No language can really capture what music is like, but what can we do?

I'm enjoying this too, btw.
post #1718 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post

I threw jam band in there because I thought it best captured what I don't like about the Grateful Dead. But you're right, it sets up certain expectations in the reader. And it turns out that readers don't necessarily share the same context. For example, I would never have thought of the Allman Brothers (who I like and wish I had seen back in the day) as a jam band, so thoroughly do I have them in my southern, blues inflected rock category drawer. The problem is that when you're trying to tell someone about a new band or song, you have to use these rough estimates and then focus with better examples as far as you can. No language can really capture what music is like, but what can we do?

I'm enjoying this too, btw.

 

you nailed it on the head!  what can we do about it?  play it LOUDER! biggrin.gif


Edited by thrak - 10/11/12 at 6:26pm
post #1719 of 21760

My pre-dinner entertainment was brought to me in part by, a_recording...thanks kindly. I'm leaving my terminal now with a smile on my face and in a good mood for dinner.

beerchug.gif

post #1720 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

This seems a bit of an extreme position. While I don't use cover flow (it's a poor interface for selection I find) I do like to album art quite prominent in the interface. The album art helps me navigate a long playlist very fast when scrolling, and I just happen to really really like album art. I find a mosaic grid of all the album art I have actually somewhat comforting. Album art is literally enough for me to try an album out, or at least have an interest in it (despite the book / cover adage). It generally seems to point towards the direction of a band / artist, or at least orient my feelings towards the music.

 

There's a bit of hyperbole for comedic effect but I honestly don't like it.

post #1721 of 21760

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

This seems a bit of an extreme position. While I don't use cover flow (it's a poor interface for selection I find) I do like to album art quite prominent in the interface. The album art helps me navigate a long playlist very fast when scrolling, and I just happen to really really like album art. I find a mosaic grid of all the album art I have actually somewhat comforting. Album art is literally enough for me to try an album out, or at least have an interest in it (despite the book / cover adage). It generally seems to point towards the direction of a band / artist, or at least orient my feelings towards the music.

 

I love distortion, but I think I've said before - I can never really get into metal because I'm really never sure what mood or emotion it's meant to engender in me when I listen to it. (That isn't to say that I'm sure the entire genre is meant to create the same feeling). I've certainly tried to give it a fair shake because I have a friend who plays me metal albums all the time. Some of the stuff I find interestingly theatrical (like say Mr Bungle) but most of the times I feel like the music is trying to provoke an aggression or energy in me that I can't really find in myself.

 

My favourite metal track is that baby metal track that was posted in this thread many eons ago (if that even counts). I like it for purely ironic reasons. My friend hates it.

 

Grats!

 

I don't mind Cover flow per se, but my music is not tagged consistently enough for it.

 

Speaking of Mr. Bungle, Trey Spruance had assisted a fairly interesting experimental Jazz band named Estradasphere. They were a 6 piece multi-instrumentalist group from Santa Cruz trained in all sorts of backgrounds from classical to metal and jazz, and a typical song was around 5 to 8 minutes in length, shifting in style and genre throughout the piece. Producer/audio production engineer, standup/electric bassist Tim Smolens also occasionally sang vocals. Here's one of my favorite songs of theirs, and a good example of their style:

 

 

Compared to other songs of theirs, Millenium Child holds to more of a single idea and moves between genre's less, but either way its all good fun ^^

post #1722 of 21760
That Baby Metal track still sounds like pop to me lolol. I do know that there are more 'metal sounding' Japanese band, but still....
post #1723 of 21760

I thought they were fun though...

post #1724 of 21760
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

That Baby Metal track still sounds like pop to me lolol. I do know that there are more 'metal sounding' Japanese band, but still....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent One View Post

I thought they were fun though...

 

I thought they were pretty hilarious. I could just imagine those 3 girls as opening act at a Slayer or Anthrax concert......so not a good idea.

post #1725 of 21760
For those who love Jazz, the Metal entry point has to be Animals As Leaders, I think they call the style Metal Fusion.
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