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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 113  

post #1681 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magick Man View Post


For metal and the like, it's about theater. Most in that genre are real pussycats, they're just having fun and they don't take themselves very seriously, like Alice Cooper. He'll make a deal like Faust and then get his head chopped off one night, and the next day he's laughing about it at a charity golf tournament. Metal itself is an acquired taste and I was raised on it, lots of Black Sabbath and Led Zep, at 10 I could even sing all the AC/DC Bon Scott songs by heart. I was inconsolable after he OD'd. So, my tastes are impacted by cultural influence, like anyone else. Never did get into the harder stuff, though, like Cannibal Corpse or Deicide.
For me, I believe it comes down to a couple factors: is the singer(s) actually singing, or are they only talking, growling, or screaming? Is there coherent melody, or an artistry at work that I appreciate on an emotional or technical level?
Rap/Hip-hop lovers shouldn't feel bad, though, I feel the same negative response when I hear Pop-Country, so it isn't exclusive to one genre.

I used to spend quite a bit of time in the metal scene, particularly the death metal scene in Denver.  (I got into it because I used to record some bands in that genre.)  The people are generally pretty laid back and fun, though they are often the "I'm super nice unless you trifle with me" type.  They are generally not the type of people you want to directly screw with, and they will make a point to prove that's not a good idea.  There is also a definite etiquette to the culture.

 

As you said, Metal is an acquired taste, and one that IMO often starts young, when music is a source of energy, motivation, and sometimes aggression.  I also think that people acquire different tastes in frequency balance and tone; Metal has a particular feel in that area, along with the concept of "distortion can be beautiful".

 

I like some rap, but probably only 1% of what I've heard.  I also tend to have an aversion to country.  The odd thing about that is that I was on a light crew for 15 summers at a country focused venue.  So I've seen most of the major country artists, but never acquired a taste for their music.  It does have its fine points, such as a certain amount of emotional depth, especially in the area of loyalty to one's spouse and family.  There are also some very talented musicians in that genre.  Seeing Charlie Daniels play fiddle breaks any urge to mock the talent level.  But the genre overall is pretty simple structurally, generally being in 4/4 time with a 2/2 backbeat, and usually in a key of C or D.  Other genres such as Metal, Classical, and Techno are worlds more complex musically than country is, and I enjoy that diversity.  biggrin.gif

 

EDIT: Typing this post reminded me: Willie Nelson has a bright yellow Neve console that he takes on tours, which makes him cooler than anybody.  Most bands don't have the balls or the budget to tote around a $100,000 sound board, nor do they have the style to have it custom built in bright yellow. cool.gif


Edited by barleyguy - 10/9/12 at 9:33pm
post #1682 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

As you said, Metal is an acquired taste, and one that IMO often starts young, when music is a source of energy, motivation, and sometimes aggression.

 

Okay, so now I know why there's a silver lining on every cloud.  My parents were really into Paul Anka and Pat Boone when I was in my formative years.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post

EDIT: Typing this post reminded me: Willie Nelson has a bright yellow Neve console that he takes on tours, which makes him cooler than anybody.

 

Oh that ain't nuthin'.  As of tonight, I am now the proud owner of a custom title!  Paint me giddy, call me happy, and beat that with a stick!  biggrin.gif

post #1683 of 21761
What warrants such a custom title like that?
post #1684 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

What warrants such a custom title like that?

Check here....http://www.head-fi.org/t/630723/themed-monthly-avatar-committee-tmac-discussion-thread/30#post_8766201 smile.gif

post #1685 of 21761

There's some metal in my music collection but not much. Most metal I'm familiar with doesn't work for me. The genre's gone in all kinds of directions over the past decade and some. I keep meaning to explore it some more, but I'm kind of unmotivated at it when I've already developed my opinions about the music these new artists have branched from.

 

Friends find it weird, too, since I enjoy all kinds of music that owe strong debts to metal without necessarily going there. And, yeah, some of those friends were musicians in metal bands. Actually, most of them were in the punk scene, but there's more crossover between those scenes than outsiders expect. Now I live in an area with a more interesting, vibrant metal scene, and it seems that no small number of artists there who move fluidly between that and the even-more-vibrant neo folk/country music scenes.

 

Anyway, that link in my previous post is to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. The premise of the podcast and description of the episode are better-explained over at their page, but basically it's a discussion about metal, and the guest expert on metal (who, no kidding, sounds fluidly articulate and well-informed about it) is

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats

 

 

and whose parting words are a couple sentences that neatly summarize everything I was trying to say above. 

post #1686 of 21761

Incidentally, a great introduction to hip-hop is a documentary called Scratch, which covers the history of deejaying as a musical form, starting from the projects of New York in the '70s through the late 90s. It's all about the DJs -- so instead of an MTV-style show about rappers proving how hard they are and living large, you're mostly watching interviews with dozens of people who are intense music nerds and fiercely committed to their art. The movie's 10 years old now and showing its age; it dwells a little too long on DJ competitions where the form eats its own tail -- there's much more interesting music to come out of turntablism since, and you won't know it if your exposure is limited to that movie. It's still vital for its time spent with the early greats of hip-hop, and with DJ Shadow while he was still riding high on the popularity of Endtroducing.

 

There's a new documentary that came out recently about the craft of rapping that I want to see: Something from Nothing. It's produced by Ice-T, who travels the country to visit various well-established rappers to talk about craft. (I heard an interview where he explains that he focused mostly on older rappers who'd already reached the top, because they'd be less defensive and more willing to open up about themselves; younger rappers are going to be more defensive and steer the conversation to prove themselves.)

post #1687 of 21761
Thread Starter 

A lot of genres have their own sense of theater and meta-awareness. There's just as much pageantry and self-parody running throughout hip hop as there is in metal.

 

Speaking about "hip hop" or "rap" in a really broad sense, saying you hate it because of X Y and Z, that gets problematic fast. Same with any genre. In metal you've got everything from proto-metal and NWOBHM like Sabbath and Pagan Altar, to tech grind like Cephalic Carnage, to death metal like Funebrarum, to Katatonia, to Dragonforce, to Sunn O))), and etc.

 

It's like saying "I gag when I hear metal because I don't like Satanic lyrics and cookie monster vocals." That's not all metal. Similarly in hip hop you've got everything from underground turntablism to top 20 gangasta rap. Genre distinctions are helpful as a guidepost, but they ultimately necessitate a certain violence being done to musical uniqueness.


Edited by MuppetFace - 10/10/12 at 5:20am
post #1688 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

A lot of genres have their own sense of theater and meta-awareness. There's just as much pageantry and self-parody running throughout hip hop as there is in metal.

 

Speaking about "hip hop" or "rap" in a really broad sense, saying you hate it because of X Y and Z, that gets problematic fast. Same with any genre. 

 

I've read that Americans don't really get satirical nature of the Gangnam Style. They don't feel it because they are not familiar with the background. But they still enjoy the act. I always felt that the words and their meaning were not important in enjoying music. There are fans of metal and hip-hop around the world and many of them don't speak English. Not only they don't understand the language but they don't understand the social background of the genres.

 

For me words and their meaning in songs is absolutely not important. I perceive voices as instruments just like guitars, drums etc. If I don't like the idea of talking instead of singing like in rap then I don't care what kind of rap it is.

 

If somebody doesn't like loud aggressive music then he/she won't like any metal genre. I can stand and even enjoy hard-rock like Deep Purple and alike but something like speed metal gives me headaches.


Edited by mutabor - 10/10/12 at 6:14am
post #1689 of 21761

Yeah I saw that when I was browsing the TMAC thread on my phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutabor View Post


I've read that Americans don't really get satirical nature of the Gangnam Style. They don't feel it because they are not familiar with the background. But they still enjoy the act. I always felt that the words and their meaning were not important in enjoying music. There are fans of metal and hip-hop around the world and many of them don't speak English. Not only they don't understand the language but they don't understand the social background of the genres.

For me words and their meaning in songs is absolutely not important. I perceive voices as instruments just like guitars, drums etc. If I don't like the idea of talking instead of singing like in rap then I don't care what kind of rap it is.

If somebody doesn't like loud aggressive music then he/she won't like any metal genre. I can stand and even enjoy hard-rock like Deep Purple and alike but something like speed metal gives me headaches.

With regards of the underlined statement, this has been what made me still listen to a lot of Japanese songs and music, and even more recently branched out away from anime-based songs to standalone ones. I can still relate without understanding much of the language if it's from an anime since I would probably know that this certain song is about this certain scene in that anime. It still has that emotional link for me because from what it was based on. If anyone remember about me asking music_4321's opinion about that one song from an anime, it's no wonder that he wouldn't be as hooked or enthralled by it since he doesn't have what I have, which is the familiarity of said anime.

For the longest time I never ventured out of anime-based songs since I thought that without anything else other than a show to link me to something that I can't understand, I won't and can't enjoy it. Seems that I proved myself wrong.

And regarding Gangnam Style, I have never been able to like most K-pop. But really Gangnam Style seem to have done something different, so much so that the first time I finally watched Gangnam Style, I sat there replaying it for the umpteenth time. It's probably the exception out of that genre though, since I still can't stand most of K-pop even after that.

IMO, and this could probably ruffle some feathers, being closed-minded towards a whole swath of genre is a bit of a waste to yourself. I kicked myself for denying me the enjoyment that I can get from metal and most electronic music, because of just a few bad initial impressions that I had about the genre. Not that I would suddenly turn into a basshead or a metalhead overnight, but having a few variation from the norm of high-pitched, young-ish sounding female artists singing in moonspeak pop is quite liberating.
post #1690 of 21761

There's not any specific thing that's characteristic of metal that isn't also an aspect of something I do like (or is a characteristic not common to all forms of metal).  It's a music that doesn't press my buttons, and there's a point at which working at trying to like it wasn't being as rewarding as developing a taste for other musics.

 

So what I would rather do is handwave the matter and wait for something to come along that puts the pieces together for me. It's happened before with other forms of music (the movie Scratch did a lot for my appreciation of hip-hop, and repeatedly listening to an Evan Parker album while wondering what was going on was essential to my liking any free jazz).

 

It's probably better to say that I don't hate metal as much as I've failed at trying to like it. I don't consider metal a thing that I cannot like.

post #1691 of 21761
Thread Starter 

So, some Mass Effect 3 ramblings:

 

I'm actually starting to enjoy Mass Effect 3 somewhat now that the DLC is flowing. The Leviathan stuff was pretty rad, though from a purely narrative standpoint it's kind of bad form. Still, it felt a lot more dramatic than anything the game originally did in its last third and fourth quarters. It kind of makes the game as a whole seem more pathetic, because it shows there are still people at BioWare capable of churning out good stuff.

 

The next single-player DLC will be the campaign to retake Omega. I've been waiting for that one, as I love the Omega setting and Aria's character. Also excited over the latest multiplayer DLC, if only because it reintroduces The Collectors, and so it stands to reason they'll be showing up in the single player game at some point. One of the early info leaks talked about the Omega mission and also mentioned "Hive Base Five" which was some sort of last remaining Collector outpost. Fans are crying over it, saying that it makes the second game irrelevant. They have a point in that most of ME3 does make the ME2 irrelevant (the dark energy subplot, the purpose of the human reaper, etc.), but the survival of The Collectors is actually fine narratively speaking. Blowing up their base doesn't mean they're all gone suddenly.

 

It's actually the FIRST game that is made irrelevant by ME3. Choosing to kill certain characters in ME1 turns out to mean little, as BioWare simply replaces them in ME3 with a very similar substitute and keeps the plot pretty much identical. As much as I dislike ME3 for its extreme linearity, lack of dialog options and social dimension, bland new characters, unloading important plot points like Shepard's trial off onto other media (like a comic book that was only available at certain b&m stores), the war assets system, the step 'n' fetch quests, really modular level maps taken right from multiplayer, the forced dream sequences, the incredibly superficial and bland romance options, and the Gears of War mechanics... I think this devaluation of past choices is one of two things that bug me most. The other is the lack of exploration (ie. limited planet-side stuff, bland locations like Cerberus bases, and only one hub world).

post #1692 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

 

Okay, so now I know why there's a silver lining on every cloud.  My parents were really into Paul Anka and Pat Boone when I was in my formative years.

 

 

Oh that ain't nuthin'.  As of tonight, I am now the proud owner of a custom title!  Paint me giddy, call me happy, and beat that with a stick!  biggrin.gif

I think that formative music can sometime happen because of parents, and sometimes to spite the parents.  My mother's music was bands like The Beach Boys, Firefall, and The Beatles.  There was a tinge of metal in my step-father's collection, but my first exposure to it was from a neighbor's older brother.  (It was actually known as "acid rock" back then though.  The name changed from acid rock to Heavy Metal, and then as the genre got more diverse, it was shortened to Metal.)

 

Also, congrats on the title.  regular_smile%20.gif


Edited by barleyguy - 10/10/12 at 11:13am
post #1693 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

A lot of genres have their own sense of theater and meta-awareness. There's just as much pageantry and self-parody running throughout hip hop as there is in metal.

 

Speaking about "hip hop" or "rap" in a really broad sense, saying you hate it because of X Y and Z, that gets problematic fast. Same with any genre. In metal you've got everything from proto-metal and NWOBHM like Sabbath and Pagan Altar, to tech grind like Cephalic Carnage, to death metal like Funebrarum, to Katatonia, to Dragonforce, to Sunn O))), and etc.

 

It's like saying "I gag when I hear metal because I don't like Satanic lyrics and cookie monster vocals." That's not all metal. Similarly in hip hop you've got everything from underground turntablism to top 20 gangasta rap. Genre distinctions are helpful as a guidepost, but they ultimately necessitate a certain violence being done to musical uniqueness.


Pagan Alter is more firmly entrenched in the early doom era, which in a lot of ways deserves to be known as it's own genre instead of being dumped into the sub genre category, but yeah I know where you're coming from. Rather interesting doom has developed it's own set of sub genres such as funeral and drone but by many it's still considered a sub genre of the metal movement when technically it was already alive and well when the early days of the NWOBHM were first beginning . A wild guess, you listen to Cirith Ungol and the drone era Trouble don't you? From the late 70s era St Vitus in my opinion was probably the unsung hero's of that time era. Not to far behind them as far as influence to the genre is concerned was Trouble and Candlemass. Of coarse that's just my opinion many others would disagree. .

post #1694 of 21761
My beef with rap is, sadly enough, it's gansta/off-the-street roots. I LOVE rap/hip hop beats, but I can't stand the repetitiveness of themes in rap, both in underground ("Breaking outta the system, **** the sell outs, etc"), modern ("livin the hard life on the streets, being a good man for my kids, having a hard life") and gangsta ("time to pop yo ass and get on this fine girl, ass ass ass ass")

Obviously this is not all rap, but can I not make the argument that rap seems to define itself within certain tropes far more than other genres do? I feel like creativity is almost nil in this genre. That's why "The Roots" feel so refreshing, even though their work isn't all that creative or original anyway.

It's why I mostly stick to foreign and instrumental hip hop. It's interesting to see the lyrics that come from people who learned English as their second or third language and are not as aware of the hip hop "culture" in America. I really like those. Nujabes is a great example, but he also recruits rappers from America so I'm not sure why his music seems to stand out to me as breaking the tropes.

I guess it's also my personal tastes and preferences though. I could listen to cheesy folk/bluegrass lyrics like The Avett Brothers or Mumford and Sons for albums on end and probably not get sick of it.
Edited by compoopers - 10/10/12 at 1:40pm
post #1695 of 21761
The day I found some Pioneer SE-700 for sale that made me want to buy them for the LOLZ is the time that I don't have spare cash to spend on. SUCH IS LIFE. triportsad.gifdeadhorse.gif
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