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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 1095  

post #16411 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I'm totally posting this to my Facebook page. The treadmill of desire!

GET ON THE TREADMILL AND GRIND!
post #16412 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


The road to nowhere.


Sometimes you just need to "Escape"...

post #16413 of 21761
I don't see how it doesn't make sense to leave a hobby. I've done that before, and doing it again right now. I've walked away from anime once for close to 3 years because I found it boring for a while. Similarly, I'm finding that I'm getting bored and bored with this hobby, and only sticking to this forum for the people, the posts, and the usual headache inducing consumer logic that pops up.

Not surprisingly I'm in agreement with MF's point, because I see it in myself, at least in anime. I've seen some that truly rocked my world (of anime) and I kept craving more of it, but not finding much luck. But since that craving is still strong, I kept on swimming through crap. It is, in its bear essence, the same as The Journey that purportedly Head-fiers must have experience. In the end, I (and others) stayed for the ride in a just to have that euphoria of having the craving satisfied, before wanting the crave to come back to start over again. Generally speaking that is.

Congratz, I've found something that I like immensely, but there's always that one small thing that's a bit not up to scratch. No matter, there's always more to come... Always...
Edited by jgray91 - 7/27/13 at 5:28pm
post #16414 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

The road to nowhere.

 

 

 

Well we know where we're goin'
But we don't know where we've been
And we know what we're knowin'
But we can't say what we've seen
And we're not little children
And we know what we want
And the future is certain
Give us time to work it out
post #16415 of 21761

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I think the mistake a lot of audiophiles make is not realizing the desire itself is what they crave. Craving the craving? Yup. I know a lot of folks like to act like it's all such a big hassle or a pain, but really deep down they love that never ending song and dance. They're always looking for that objet petit a to satisfy themselves, but as soon as they acquire it the satisfaction starts to diminish because desire must ultimately remain unfulfilled to continue to exist.

 

;)

 

Which is why I have a: Shure SE215, Yamaha MT220, PSB M4U 1, Sennheiser Momentums on the way (even though I still have all I need! ;))

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post


Sometimes you just need to "Escape"...

 

MAAN do I love Journey!!!!

post #16416 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

I think it's mostly a matter of where your priorities lie. So long as you focus on gear rather than, say, music (and make music a means to an end rather than the end itself), you're never really going to be "finished." I know some folks who say they're only focusing on gear for a time and that once they "finish," then they'll start listening to music again. In my experience though it doesn't really work this way, and it's hard to really force yourself to get out of the "head-fi mindset" of acquisition. I dunno, in my case it tends to come in cycles over the years. The only time I find I'm ever truly satisfied with my gear is when I get into music again as my primary focus and gear becomes secondary. Like, I can't really stay in that hyper-critical-listening mindset and ever be "finished." Y'know? There's always the urge to explore, for fresh experiences, and so long as the gear is the primary focus one is going to have that compulsion to continue to try new stuff. It may be subtle, it may be diminished, it may be dormant... but there it lurks.

 

I mean, there are some folks on the forums who act like they want gear for music listening first and foremost, but I never see them talking about music. They never mention music in their reviews, they never talk about what they're listening to.... and I can't help but think that music is just a means to an end, an excuse for the consumption. Nothing really wrong with that per se, but it's kind of deluding one's self. I think it's healthier to understanding / expose those underlying motivators. But then that's my psychoanalytic fetishism talking I guess.

 

When I start focusing on music first and foremost and gear becomes secondary, it honestly doesn't matter what I'm listening with so much. I've been just as into music listening through cheap stuff as I have been my expensive-ass summit-fi rig. That's sort of what contributed to my own understanding of transparency, the observation of my listening past certain devices rather than to them. Ultimately fidelity is one variable, and not an absolute one. Lo-fi has its own distinct appeal. But yeah, for me I'm only really ever satisfied with my current setup when my priorities shift to music first and foremost, and I find it really doesn't matter what I'm using gear-wise so much.

 

But that's just me.

 

Advertently or not you hit directly on the two of the critical points that allowed the HF market to become the twisted monster it now is.

 

How is is that a tonemeister or sound engineer can listen in that so called hyper critical mode for days without giving any thought to the headphones?

 

At one point in time that transparency was THE goal, not some signature sound de jeur.

 

Take those two points, add in the "I spend therefore I am" marketing hype and suddenly you have an industry turned upside down and inside out preying on basic human needs to organize. Lo Fi Summit Fi Mid Fi. What a joke, be honest call it what it is, Royalty, courtesans, peasants and serfs.

 

It's either HiFi or it aint, get off the socially structured tiering system and perhaps we wont be treated to anymore headphones coming out at 3X their realistic value.wink_face.gif

post #16417 of 21761
Thread Starter 

A few notes on what I've been listening to all day today.

 

My production Liquid Gold was delivered the other day, the first one off the assembly line since I was the first to pre-order one. Just goes to show you how long I've been waiting for this amp. In fact, I've been waiting for it about as long as I've been a member of head-fi, back when it wasn't even the same amp! It's only gotten better and better over the years, to the point where now it's pretty much one of the finest dedicated headphone amps I've ever heard. The biggest qualm I had with it was that it was too powerful for highly sensitive headphones, resulting in too much noise coming from SE operation. Now there's a dedicated low impedance jack (instead of separates they've been replaced with combo XLRs). Makes me a little sad I've ditched most of my sensitive headphones.

 

I can say that the LAu paired with the Abyss is one of the finest headphones rigs I've owned. Yeah it's stupidly expensive, but it's still about half the price of an Orpheus rig today, and personally I think it's on the same level performance wise more or less with its own strengths and weaknesses in comparison. Compared to the LL2 + SR-009, I find the treble lacks the same refinement but has a better overall balance relative to the rest of the FR for my tastes. For some folks who really like the SR-009 I can see the treble being a possible sticking point, however I don't think I'm hearing quite the same issues as Tyll did on my set, and it was interesting to note that Tyll apparently didn't hear the same issues on the set at the LA meet either. I need to pick his brains about this next time we talk. The mids on both the SR-009 and Abyss are very good, though they're more emphasized on the SR-009 + LL2 combo. The bass of the LAu + Abyss however absolutely smokes just about every other headphone rig I've ever heard. It's more alive, tauter, more visceral without being bass heavy in any sense. Overall a very balanced signature that is somewhat laid back despite some peaking above the sibilance region.

 

Really, I think purrin's post in one of the LAu threads here (I can't remember which one off the top of my head) sums up my views on these two headphones. They both do certain things very well, and it's definitely a case of personal preference without one being a clear victor over the other. He made a very astute observation that these two headphones approach speed in different ways: the SR-009 is more of a gradual, gentler acceleration and deceleration whereas the Abyss is like a barrel-assing semi that proceeds to slam on carbon fiber breaks. This helps to contribute to a more dreamy, ethereal presentation on the SR-009 whereas the Abyss is more visceral. He tends to hear the SR-009 as slightly faster, but personally the Abyss is the faster of the two to my ears. I don't think there's a clear, definitive answer: it's just dependent on one's perception of these traits. Purrin also puts it quite well when he says that folks who love the SR-009 are unlikely going to find the Abyss their cup of tea. I've noticed this to be the case myself. People who are very much intrenched in the Stax camp seem to feel the Abyss lacks the upper-end refinement and somewhat more "gentle" approach they're used to hearing. Personally, for my tastes, I was never quite satisfied with the SR-009. Neither was Purrin. Or dBel. The three of us took to the Abyss quite strongly.

 

I can sit here and pick apart individual attributes of each flagship noting that each one in turn does some things better than others. People can look at individual facets of the measurements independently, cherry picking negative or positive points out of the context of a whole to suit their own fancies. This tends to yield only part of the story however, mistaking the trees for the forest. The full story is always more compelling, for better or for worse. For me personally, the Abyss presents a combination of attributes that hits upon my listening priorities in a way that makes it one of the most complete packages in summit-fi. There are certain things other headphones do better, yes, but for me the Abyss + LAu combo sounds more true to life, more musically satisfying, and more spatially convincing while retaining an uncanny level of clarity and sense of detailed layering. Do I wish it cost less? Of course. However for the asking price I personally think it's a better prospect than the Sony R10 (which costs more now second-hand) and is pretty much on the level of the Orpheus (which costs over twice as much for the headphones alone now). The SR-009 can be had for less at the moment due to the weakened JPY, but folks aren't taking the entire chain into consideration in a lot of cases: you'll need to invest in a rather expensive amp (unless you go the DIY route) to get the most out of your SR-009. The Abyss meanwhile is much more flexible synergy-wise compared to certain other orthos despite having an even bigger power requirement: it'll sound exceedingly good out of a $700 mid-tier Schiit amp or whatever vintage speaker amp you have lying around the house most likely. As a result, unless you're already invested in the world of stats, going for either is going to be comparable expense-wise.

 

At this point I'm not looking for a fight. I'm not looking to debate with anyone over my justifications for the Abyss. I really do think some folks 'round these parts have an almost obsessive need to hate the Abyss for reasons I've outlined before (and will refrain from outlining yet again). It's all forum nonsense, all part of a play wherein we adopt certain roles. We all have our biases, our brand loyalties, our motivations. No post exists in a vacuum, including this one. To that end I should say this post is mostly the result of where I am right now in this hobby. I'm at the point where I'm satisfied with what I have because I'm primarily into music above all else, and really I don't feel the Abyss is necessary in any capacity for my enjoyment of it. The Abyss is pure luxury, just as the SR-007 and Jecklin Floats are pure luxury. Just as my CIEMs are pure luxury. Honestly, things get a little surreal when you see some summit-fi members calling out others on their high end gear when it's all relative madness. It's one lunatic chastising another because he happens to talk to his suppositories in a French accent rather than just, y'know, talking to them. Once we hit the $1k mark, we've pretty much flown over the cuckoo's nest in the eyes of most folks.

 

The gear is really just an excuse though in what amounts to a battle of egos and emotions, a battle of justification. Justification of what? Of one's self, I suppose. Of one's chosen role in this theater. I wanted to take a break from the forums and just enjoy music because the posturing and agenda-mongering was starting to get to me. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), the distance only made these things all the more apparent. Just today I came across a post by a certain member who is held in high esteem for his supposed knowledgeability. He constantly goes on the warpath against manufacturers, and while most folks recognize he has the social graces of a steamroller, most folks also seem to view his posts as blunt in an honest way, of "telling it like it is" and "saying the hard things people don't want to necessarily hear." Only he's full of it. His maths don't add up according to some very brainy individuals who have dealt with him, and he doesn't know what he's talking about half the time. Most of his accusations are outright fabrications or based on erroneous assumptions, as was the case in this post where he completely misrepresented the figures of a particular product. Yet folks buy into it. I bought into it when I first joined head-fi. He obfuscates the truth but parrots just enough bits and pieces from others to seem knowledgeable. Who this person is exactly is unimportant, because really he's an archetype. The reason why this archetype is so successful I think ties back into a lot of what I posted about before. There's this air of mistrust in summit-fi that arose out of a very natural and very important skepticism. People don't want to be taken in by medicine shows, and in this hobby there's a lot of nonsense and fluff to get bleary eyed over, certainly. Yet it sort of blossomed into this need to deride the Other for the sake of feeling whole, for the sake of propping up one's own chosen role. To be the victim of the industry. To be the expert. To be the one in-the-know while, a voice of reason in a hobby spiraling out of control. You see all these posts about this or that product being a sad reflection of the state of things, for instance. Honestly nothing is that different in this hobby from ten years ago, it's mostly just a difference in scope. There are more uber-expensive headphones, yes, but then there are more headphones in general. Look at some of the 'stats from the 70s and what they cost, factoring in inflation. You might be surprised. 

 

Anyway, we can justify anything to ourselves whatever position we choose to adopt, and I fully realize I'm not going to change minds. Perhaps I would have cared more a year ago, but now I want to just sit back and enjoy my music. Complaining is definitely a fun pastime: here I am, complaining about other people complaining. However I'm so over any desire to discuss this stuff. I've adopted a rather immature (or maybe mature? I can never tell) policy of ignoring certain folks who seem to me to have an axe to grind or just want to pick at scabs. Honestly, this thread has always been about ridiculous consumerism, back from the days of its inception via Kiteki. It's always been about chasing rainbows and the treadmill of desire as Lach calls it. If this stuff bothers you, then you're definitely in the wrong place.

post #16418 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

 

Anyway, we can justify anything to ourselves whatever position we choose to adopt, and I fully realize I'm not going to change minds. Perhaps I would have cared more a year ago, but now I want to just sit back and enjoy my music. Complaining is definitely a fun pastime: here I am, complaining about other people complaining. However I'm so over any desire to discuss this stuff. I've adopted a rather immature (or maybe mature? I can never tell) policy of ignoring certain folks who seem to me to have an axe to grind or just want to pick at scabs. Honestly, this thread has always been about ridiculous consumerism, back from the days of its inception via Kiteki. It's always been about chasing rainbows and the treadmill of desire as Lach calls it. If this stuff bothers you, then you're definitely in the wrong place.

+1. I think limiting it to this thread is a disservice to the impact of that statement.

 

 

 

 

This doesn't follow the naming game but I'll probably never see a opportunity fit to post it again so...

 

 

 

God in heaven, my only friend
Will I live to see my journey's end?
As the world awakens me so hard, my values have been changed
I make a promise to myself: Never again
A dusty godforsaken path, endless to my dismay
I know these are the badlands, somehow I'll find my way


Edited by vwinter - 7/27/13 at 6:14pm
post #16419 of 21761

I kind of feel like some of these small fires start in Head Fi because some people have the prison mentality of:

 

"Sure, I spend on some stupid things, but I'm not AWFUL about it like THAT fool."

 

I've been more than guilty of this myself. Projection is fun!


As long as everyone calms down and realises this is a perfectly human tendency I think this would be a nicer place.

 

Or:

 

IMMA LET YOU FINISH BUT THE M50 IS THE BEST HEADPHONE OF ALL TIME

post #16420 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I kind of feel like some of these small fires start in Head Fi because some people have the prison mentality of:

 

"Sure, I spend on some stupid things, but I'm not AWFUL about it like THAT fool."

 

I've been more than guilty of this myself. Projection is fun!


As long as everyone calms down and realises this is a perfectly human tendency I think this would be a nicer place.

 

Or:

 

IMMA LET YOU FINISH BUT THE M50 IS THE BEST HEADPHONE OF ALL TIME


Thats called relative morality, and the main problem with it is when you go down that road you become very ungrounded with no inherent rules or principles of your own. It was the very vacuum that consumerism was created to fill.

 

The M50 sucks, and you know itbiggrin.gif

post #16421 of 21761

@MuppetFace

 

I'm sorry if I stepped out of line but I couldn't help myself and had to quote your last post on my FaceBook page. That last post, especially the part roughly half in, has got to be one of the hallmark posts made by this group of ours. Bravo madam, bravo


Edited by DigitalFreak - 7/27/13 at 7:58pm
post #16422 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

I think the mistake a lot of audiophiles make is not realizing the desire itself is what they crave. Craving the craving? Yup. I know a lot of folks like to act like it's all such a big hassle or a pain, but really deep down they love that never ending song and dance. They're always looking for that objet petit a to satisfy themselves, but as soon as they acquire it the satisfaction starts to diminish because desire must ultimately remain unfulfilled to continue to exist.

^ Completely Spot on biggrin.gif

post #16423 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post

A few notes on what I've been listening to all day today.

 

My production Liquid Gold was delivered the other day, the first one off the assembly line since I was the first to pre-order one. Just goes to show you how long I've been waiting for this amp. In fact, I've been waiting for it about as long as I've been a member of head-fi, back when it wasn't even the same amp! It's only gotten better and better over the years, to the point where now it's pretty much one of the finest dedicated headphone amps I've ever heard. The biggest qualm I had with it was that it was too powerful for highly sensitive headphones, resulting in too much noise coming from SE operation. Now there's a dedicated low impedance jack (instead of separates they've been replaced with combo XLRs). Makes me a little sad I've ditched most of my sensitive headphones.

 

I can say that the LAu paired with the Abyss is one of the finest headphones rigs I've owned. Yeah it's stupidly expensive, but it's still about half the price of an Orpheus rig today, and personally I think it's on the same level performance wise more or less with its own strengths and weaknesses in comparison. Compared to the LL2 + SR-009, I find the treble lacks the same refinement but has a better overall balance relative to the rest of the FR for my tastes. For some folks who really like the SR-009 I can see the treble being a possible sticking point, however I don't think I'm hearing quite the same issues as Tyll did on my set, and it was interesting to note that Tyll apparently didn't hear the same issues on the set at the LA meet either. I need to pick his brains about this next time we talk. The mids on both the SR-009 and Abyss are very good, though they're more emphasized on the SR-009 + LL2 combo. The bass of the LAu + Abyss however absolutely smokes just about every other headphone rig I've ever heard. It's more alive, tauter, more visceral without being bass heavy in any sense. Overall a very balanced signature that is somewhat laid back despite some peaking above the sibilance region.

 

Really, I think purrin's post in one of the LAu threads here (I can't remember which one off the top of my head) sums up my views on these two headphones. They both do certain things very well, and it's definitely a case of personal preference without one being a clear victor over the other. He made a very astute observation that these two headphones approach speed in different ways: the SR-009 is more of a gradual, gentler acceleration and deceleration whereas the Abyss is like a barrel-assing semi that proceeds to slam on carbon fiber breaks. This helps to contribute to a more dreamy, ethereal presentation on the SR-009 whereas the Abyss is more visceral. He tends to hear the SR-009 as slightly faster, but personally the Abyss is the faster of the two to my ears. I don't think there's a clear, definitive answer: it's just dependent on one's perception of these traits. Purrin also puts it quite well when he says that folks who love the SR-009 are unlikely going to find the Abyss their cup of tea. I've noticed this to be the case myself. People who are very much intrenched in the Stax camp seem to feel the Abyss lacks the upper-end refinement and somewhat more "gentle" approach they're used to hearing. Personally, for my tastes, I was never quite satisfied with the SR-009. Neither was Purrin. Or dBel. The three of us took to the Abyss quite strongly.

 

I can sit here and pick apart individual attributes of each flagship noting that each one in turn does some things better than others. People can look at individual facets of the measurements independently, cherry picking negative or positive points out of the context of a whole to suit their own fancies. This tends to yield only part of the story however, mistaking the trees for the forest. The full story is always more compelling, for better or for worse. For me personally, the Abyss presents a combination of attributes that hits upon my listening priorities in a way that makes it one of the most complete packages in summit-fi. There are certain things other headphones do better, yes, but for me the Abyss + LAu combo sounds more true to life, more musically satisfying, and more spatially convincing while retaining an uncanny level of clarity and sense of detailed layering. Do I wish it cost less? Of course. However for the asking price I personally think it's a better prospect than the Sony R10 (which costs more now second-hand) and is pretty much on the level of the Orpheus (which costs over twice as much for the headphones alone now). The SR-009 can be had for less at the moment due to the weakened JPY, but folks aren't taking the entire chain into consideration in a lot of cases: you'll need to invest in a rather expensive amp (unless you go the DIY route) to get the most out of your SR-009. The Abyss meanwhile is much more flexible synergy-wise compared to certain other orthos despite having an even bigger power requirement: it'll sound exceedingly good out of a $700 mid-tier Schiit amp or whatever vintage speaker amp you have lying around the house most likely. As a result, unless you're already invested in the world of stats, going for either is going to be comparable expense-wise.

 

 

I also came across a similar conversation relating to what constitues speed in the HD800 thread - there is impulse response where Orthos are super fast, but there is also settling time, control which also contributes to the sense of speed, or rather control in the decay direction.  The couple times I have listened to 009's I found them to sound super composed, they made my HD800's sound like they were mumbling, so I think there is much more to this than purely reading off headphone measurements.

 

Interesting to hear - I was kind of wondering if this would be the case - Abyss being cheaper to power relative to STAX.  Re hate-mongering, I think it's kind of natural, or at least human to hold this kind of attitude, at least initially.  I find that there are a lot of young people on head-fi, and it take maturity to live and let live.  Relative to speakers headphones are still relatively affordable, even when they cost $5000.  It really doesn't concern me that much, ultimately I'm happy that progress is being made, even if I can't afford these offerings for now; it doesn't make the equipment I am using any less competent.

post #16424 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

I don't see how it doesn't make sense to leave a hobby. I've done that before, and doing it again right now. I've walked away from anime once for close to 3 years because I found it boring for a while. Similarly, I'm finding that I'm getting bored and bored with this hobby, and only sticking to this forum for the people, the posts, and the usual headache inducing consumer logic that pops up.

Not surprisingly I'm in agreement with MF's point, because I see it in myself, at least in anime. I've seen some that truly rocked my world (of anime) and I kept craving more of it, but not finding much luck. But since that craving is still strong, I kept on swimming through crap. It is, in its bear essence, the same as The Journey that purportedly Head-fiers must have experience. In the end, I (and others) stayed for the ride in a just to have that euphoria of having the craving satisfied, before wanting the crave to come back to start over again. Generally speaking that is.

Congratz, I've found something that I like immensely, but there's always that one small thing that's a bit not up to scratch. No matter, there's always more to come... Always...

 

I don't see it as being attributable for all hobbies nor all people. You can say it for some or most yes but that doesn't mean it applies to all. That is where I don't agree. Just because I really don't have the desire to be constantly buying products doesn't mean I have to leave the hobby. There's more to this hobby in particular than just buying new gear and seeking the new thrill. I know that it's fun to have that desire for new stuff (looking forward to trying out different gear) but really that just leads you to never being satisfied with what you have. More so it leads you into a lot of purchases where you will be disappointed in. I'm glad I'm not at that stage anymore. Heck I have the opportunity to demo a lot of good products but I don't really care at this point and thus for my comments of truly being satisfied. Instead I'm finding it more of a hassle than anything else to drive the point home further.


Edited by lee730 - 7/27/13 at 9:38pm
post #16425 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

I don't see it as being attributable for all hobbies nor all people. You can say it for some or most yes but that doesn't mean it applies to all. That is where I don't agree. Just because I really don't have the desire to be constantly buying products doesn't mean I have to leave the hobby. There's more to this hobby in particular than just buying new gear and seeking the new thrill. I know that it's fun to have that desire for new stuff (looking forward to trying out different gear) but really that just leads you to never being satisfied with what you have. More so it leads you into a lot of purchases where you will be disappointed in. I'm glad I'm not at that stage anymore. Heck I have the opportunity to demo a lot of good products but I don't really care at this point and thus for my comments of truly being satisfied. Instead I'm finding it more of a hassle than anything else to drive the point home further.


Well put Lee. It's simply misplaced Jaegerinstinct, that leads to the endless chase. At some point blind instinct gives way to value judgement and satisfaction surfaces. Then you can look at new stuff in the light of what it actually brings to the experience rather than looking at it as the goal itself.

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