Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 827  

post #12391 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

Urgh, getting a bit grumpy at all the "worth" and "synergy" comments. I'm out for a bit.

 

I'm not really much of a fan of the synergy concept either.  I find it problematic in that it kind of avoids directly assessing the qualities of the subject.  While it may be inherently necessary at times, I do find it unnerving. Probably grinds against my ideals of gear being transparent or understood to the point where discussions of synergy are no longer necessary.  Things like impedance matching and power requirements will always be there, but I find discussions of synergy to do with sound signature tiring.

 

For value, yeah I don't mind so much - it's a pretty important concept for anyone without unlimited funds.  Where it kind of falls apart is where value or "worth" is no longer a function of technical performance.

 

re "worth" in the DAP discussion I kind of see the problem there.  There's probably quite a lot of DAP's that are more powerful but less clear than the AK100.  I' m also pretty sure all of them are cheaper than the AK100.  Personally I'm more interested if there is a DAP that can match AK100 in clarity yet also have plenty of power, or say match DX100 performance but have dead quiet headphone out for IEM's.


Edited by drez - 5/19/13 at 3:27am
post #12392 of 21761
Quote:b-recording
I cannot hear the word synergy without thinking Dilbert, because that was where I first learnt the word.

That really resonates with me......

post #12393 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

That really resonates with me......

Would you say it is a synergistic resonance? biggrin.gif
post #12394 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by drez View Post


Would you say it is a synergistic resonance? biggrin.gif

 

lol so you've never heard IEMs or headphones sound noticeably better with different sources (in comparison)? I think it's very important to factor in as well. Better yet if the gear pairs well with more sources than not is ideal. I have IEMs that are a bitch to find a good pairing and I have IEMs that pair quite well with most sources.


Edited by lee730 - 5/19/13 at 5:35am
post #12395 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

lol so you've never heard IEMs or headphones sound noticeably better with different sources (in comparison)? I think it's very important to factor in as well. Better yet if the gear pairs well with more sources than not is ideal. I have IEMs that are a bitch to find a good pairing and I have IEMs that pair quite well with most sources.

 

I haven't really observed this first hand as I have only ever really kept a handful of equipment at any one point in time.  I guess I have thought that at one time an equipment pairing sounded pleasing but I try to avoid this method of classification for various reasons.  It sort of reminds me of amplifier comparisons where say with the HD800 no longer exhibits such a strong treble peak, it could be for many reasons.  The amplifier could make every headphone sound smooth in the treble, the amplifier could have really low distortion, or the amplifier could be providing enough current to stop the headphone sounding thin.  It kind of reminds me of this presentation from RMAF (not that it really supports my argument, in fact it kind of does the opposite, but its kind of interesting):

 

 

I think the key thing is as you say if you listen to an IEM with a whole lot of equipment you start to get an idea of what the inherent qualities of that IEM are.  If a certain player pairs well and everything doesn't it may not necessarily be fixing the problem, but maybe making it less apparent or whatever.  Maybe that player makes every IEM sound smooth, in which case it is the player and not the IEM that is being heard.  When described under the concept of synergy, this information may be obscured.

post #12396 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

lol so you've never heard IEMs or headphones sound noticeably better with different sources (in comparison)? I think it's very important to factor in as well. Better yet if the gear pairs well with more sources than not is ideal. I have IEMs that are a bitch to find a good pairing and I have IEMs that pair quite well with most sources.

 

I'm curious how you define synergy, or what you think causes it.

post #12397 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

I'm curious how you define synergy, or what you think causes it.

Excellent question! I've wondered how the more experienced Head-Fi-ers would define it....although I suspect different people could have different answers.

 

 

Created with GIMP

post #12398 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

I'm curious how you define synergy, or what you think causes it.


Synergy for me is when you take an IEM you've heard a 100 times and pair it with an amp and all of a sudden you just go....WOW!!!

post #12399 of 21761

Random sharing time!

 

I've been listening to this one St.Vincent track over and over again. St. Vincent was one of those artists who I knew I should probably have a listen to, but never got around to it until I went to the David Byrne + St. Vincent concert in Sydney. In the concert they performed music from their collaboration, "Love This Giant", as well as tracks from Byrne and Annie Clark's (St. Vincent's) own solo work.

 

I was super happy to see David Byrne, because he is something of an inspiration to me. Firstly, he was the first 'serious' artist I ever listened to, outside of my dabbling with classical music and novelty songs like Weird Al in highschool. I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that I was introduced to him because of the sample track provided in Windows Media Player, 'Like Human's Do'. I've been struck ever since by his lyrics that regurgitate lines pulled from advertising lifestyle copy writing and yet seem to convey a yearning for a sense of connection.

 

I've also always been endlessly fascinated by this silly and endearing little interview he conducted with himself during his Talking Heads day:

 

 

I also now, upon rewatching this, realise how much this now reminds me of Tim & Eric. One of my favourite lines that has stuck with me from this skit is, "The better the singer's voice, the harder it is to believe what he is singing. I use my faults to an advantage."

 

Anyway back to St Vincent. Seeing both of them up on stage, it was interesting for me to listen to Clark's music and try to work out what it is that Byrne saw in her music that made him think of doing a collaboration. Whereas Byrne's music (or at least his early work) is jerky, disconnected and somewhat detached, Clark's work seemed melodious, personal and somewhat emotive. But there was enough of a resemblance - a kind of odd disconnect between sound and meaning where the sentiments and music were sort of assembled by a kind of ransom note pastiche - that I was intrigued enough to finally go out and get St Vincent's Strange Mercy.

 

I must say, I really love the album. It's all kinds of distressing and hard to place pop music conventions in a blender with... something else. I've been listening to the title track over and over again:

 

 

I won't even begin trying to analyse these lyrics. I haven't really even thought about them at this point.

 

It's just that the following lines in the track, and the way she sings them, and the way it all kind of just stutters because the song's narrator is just lost for words - it just absolutely grabs me.

 

If I ever meet that dirty policeman who roughed you up
No I don't know what
If I ever meet that dirty policeman who roughed you up

 

Now this could well be like the case where I absolutely loved Grimes' Oblivion for the sense of oppressive darkness and menace and found out later that the track's lyrics do in fact reference a time Claire Boucher was assaulted. This didn't make me like the song any less or more, but it did remove the sense of male gaze / playful oppression of the music video and replace it with an actual sense of violation.

 

At this point I don't know if I want to do any more research into Strange Mercy to work out if there is any more meaning behind the lyrics, or just enjoy it in ignorance.

 

Diary threaders, do you peeps have tracks where your feelings about the song changed upon learning a little context?


Edited by a_recording - 5/19/13 at 6:50am
post #12400 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by akash neagi View Post

seeing your talk made me use my VHS player a few hours ago....

the quality is amazing....


lol are you serious?

 

If it's any help, I've begun to notice a rough correlation between the length of the ellipses and the intensity of the statement.  Based on that, I would say that yes, he is deadly serious. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosshorn View Post

I know right? Big thanks to a_recording for typing up all the reviews!

 

I actually just finished! Now I realise that it is so much easier writing short little summary reviews compared to my usual epic pagers. (Well duh).

 

Wait, that's all we have to do?  I've been falling over myself trying to come up with a comprehensive format that covers everything there is to know about a unit.  I started creating an outline for such a format and I've been adding notes to it for months now.  The outline is now half a dozen pages long, and, apparently useless.  redface.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

I'm a little wary of having to give anything scores though. I mean something like the EX1000 and the 7550 I want to give very high scores for, but at the same time I know that the impracticality of the design and the relatively high price don't warrant such high scores. I don't want anyone after reading my positive review to go buy the 7550 and use them on the subway to give themselves hearing damage.

 

I'm generally okay with assigning numerical scores because I can understand that some people need a quantifiable unit to help them put things in perspective.  My problem with the scoring system in place is that it seems to assign equal weight to Audio Quality, Comfort, Design and Value when calculating the average score.  In my mind, I think that Audio Quality should account for 50% of the score... with Comfort, Design and Value should account for 25%, 5% and 20% respectively.  I understand that sound quality isn't necessarily EVERYTHING, but surely half is reasonable right?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

Quote:Mr Cello
140 posts to go back... I think not.

You're gonna miss all the plumbing punsL3000.gif

 

And that's bad how?

post #12401 of 21761
Thread Starter 

Oh, synergy is very much a reality in my experience.

 

You have to first accept that upstream components can sounds quite different. On the one hand, certain gear masks trouble spots on a particular transducer, so some folks might find it a good pairing. Personally I don't like this approach much because it can also mask detail. Ideally, I want gear that will allow the character of the transducer to come through without masking anything too much, but also without setting off or spotlighting those problem areas. In other words something with a bright tilt will make a bright headphone even brighter.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drez View Post

 

I'm not really much of a fan of the synergy concept either.  I find it problematic in that it kind of avoids directly assessing the qualities of the subject.  While it may be inherently necessary at times, I do find it unnerving. Probably grinds against my ideals of gear being transparent or understood to the point where discussions of synergy are no longer necessary.  Things like impedance matching and power requirements will always be there, but I find discussions of synergy to do with sound signature tiring.

 

Impedance matching and power requirements do play a role in sound signature to an extent, however. For instance the SR-007 will sound a bit flabby and dark unless you put enough power behind it.

 

Personally, I want upstream components---especially a source---that are as unobtrusive as possible, though even in this sense there's a lot of room for variation. For one thing, there are differing "flavors" of approximations of neutrality (since a true wire-with-gain is elusive illusive). The ZDSE for instance is an extremely transparent sounding amp in line with the rest of Eddie Current gear in my experience, but it has a subtle though distinct midrange sweetness. May not be a big deal for a lot of folks, but it's part of what makes it the best choice in his lineup for the TH900, even over the ECBA in my humble opinion.

 

Also it's not enough to just measure well on paper in certain areas in my experience. Some very well known gear that is also very well know to measures well in certain areas... well... in certain other areas it doesn't do so well. For instance a lack of effortlessness---something I refer to as the clenched buttcheck or tight arsed effect---that results from amps sounding too constricted. Another example is a certain highly regarded wunderkind amp's unrefined, grainy treble. Not so bad with the HD650, especially the earlier variants, but with the HD800... whoooboy.

 

I think there's just too much variation on both the gear-end and the user-end to not talk about synergy, as some folks like their Lebens.

 

As they say, if life gives you Lebens...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post

Urgh, getting a bit grumpy at all the "worth" and "synergy" comments. I'm out for a bit.

 

Yeah the "worth" thing is a slippery slope for me, one I try to avoid. I personally don't feel comfortable assigning exact monetary value to the way something sounds, and I've always poked fun at the head-fiers' arithmetic, the assumption that a headphone that costs three times as much as another for instance needs to sound three times as good in order to be justifiable.

 

In only really makes sense on a relative / comparative scale, ie. "here's what else I can get for x amount." IDK, for me the hobby has always been about music listening and the appreciation of gear in and of itself as mutually coexisting. Headphones for me have always been cultural artifacts and artistic statements, so I tend to see value as more multi faceted.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

Universals, with one yellow shell and one Turquoise blue shell smily_headphones1.gif I wanted crazier colors but my wife is always restraining my Boy George tastes smily_headphones1.gif

 

 

Aww, poo. I'm glad I can freely express my inner Culture Club tendencies. I might order the 3DD in universal form myself at some point out of curiosity. That or the Elpis. Rooth's CIEMs were always some of the best when it came to translating them into universal form, if the demo units are anything to go by.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by songmic View Post

Just out of curiosity, has anyone here heard the Liquid Glass?

Could you say that it is one of the best amps for the LCD-3?

If so, which tubes are recommended?

 

I preferred the Liquid Gold with the LCD-3, but the Liquid Glass is more flexible 'cuz of the tube rolling factor. I actually think the stock tubes sound quite good with Audez'e headphones, but if you want to experiment 12SN7s are the way to go IMHO as they're fairly inexpensive compared to 6SN7s but sound pretty much similar. 6GU7 are also relatively inexpensive, but I have less experience with them.

 

Personally, I'd like to do some experimenting with 6F8Gs which were the predecessor to the 6SN7 I believe. The LG can't accept them directly, but you can use an adapter to run them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I just bid $20 on a random pair of old 70's era vintage Japanese headphones on ebay. They look like dinky FAD Muramasa VIII's. I'm wondering if I could put a nicer driver in them and have some fun!

 

Nice. Who makes them? Sansui always made stylish headphones. I also want to track down some old Ashidavox at some point.

 

Driver transplants FTW. Go planar magnetic!

 

 

EDIT: Nice post, a_rec! Made my morning.

 

EDIT #2: The most straight forward definition of synergy I can think of, as it pertains to this hobby, is how well one perceives two pieces of gear get along with one another.


Edited by MuppetFace - 5/19/13 at 8:33am
post #12402 of 21761

How much power would be required to effectively drive the HD600 from a portable source?  I'm considering picking one up someday but since all my listening is done on portable setups, I'm not sure if the purchase would be worth it.  I'm hoping something like the future Fiio X5 could drive them without the need of an additional amp.

 

Here are the X3 specs: 30mW@300 ohm.  The X5 is said to be 50% more powerful.

post #12403 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

How much power would be required to effectively drive the HD600 from a portable source?  I'm considering picking one up someday but since all my listening is done on portable setups, I'm not sure if the purchase would be worth it.  I'm hoping something like the future Fiio X5 could drive them without the need of an additional amp.

 

Here are the X3 specs: 30mW@300 ohm.  The X5 is said to be 50% more powerful.

 

I don't know how much this counts for, but my HD600 still sounds fantastic straight from my iP4. I think the higher impedance requires more voltage than it does power.

 

Matter of fact, I really couldn't notice much of a loss in SQ compared to my more powerful sources.

 


 

Thanks for the explanation MF. How I read it is that you're essentially matching the sound sig of the source/amp to that of the headphone, in order to create the end result you want. Right?


Edited by eke2k6 - 5/19/13 at 8:51am
post #12404 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post  The X5 is said to be 50% more powerful.

 

post #12405 of 21761
Oh Jezza, don't ever stop being you.

Synergy huh...

It's when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

No no, that's not it.

When you combine something you don't like with something you don't need?

Nope. Not it either.

The whole is greater than the sun of its parts??

I think I'm getting warmer...

Honestly, I believe in it but it really does seem like we talk about it to describe when we finally like something that we didn't before as much really becuase it now sounds more like we hoped/expected it to. It's always used in paragraphs that feature a sentence like "it sounds amazing, now."

Personally, I see it as a good balance created between two things you like in their own way.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2