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post #10771 of 21761

The reasoning is very logical.

It was written to show Shannon Information Theory does not go far enough in explaining what information really is.

post #10772 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

The reasoning is very logical.
It was written to show Shannon Information Theory does not go far enough in explaining what information really is.

If I'll buy this book I'll probably do it in a year or so, after taking courses on quantum physics and statistical physics (thermodynamics). At that point I'll have a better understanding of information in an academic sense.
post #10773 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeskd View Post


Perhaps, one day. However, that doesn't change the fact that closed-backs have superior bass in quantity (+ quality with the TH900s) with great impact when in contrast with the majority of the open-backs. My part-time job is mastering and mixing mainly with electronic music. While I like to use my monitor speakers, sometimes headphones are a necessity. Sub-bass and the lower frequency region of  <100 Hz is an extremely difficult task to analyze. From my inventory, the SA5000 is the worst in reproducing these frequencies and I was waiting for a headphone like the TH900 for a long time since it provides the quality that other closed-backs: DX1000, D7000/D5000, and Beats (these ace in quantity), lack.

 

 

A few errant thoughts.

 

1. Forming a seal can indeed create the perception of more bass, in my experience. This comes from limited modding, but also CIEM fit and foam tips versus silicon. The TH900 however is not a complete seal, it's actually semi open as are all the denon models you list.

 

2. Damping plays a pretty significant role, not just the cups. There are plenty of closed headphones that aren't bassy. You can't really speak of "a majority of closed headphone" in this case, especially when you keep cited the same few that aren't even fully closed. I wouldn't cite the TakeT and claim the majority of open headphones have bass response like that either.

 

3. Subbass is also a function of extension, and that's not something that is dictated much by cups to my knowledge (I'm thinking this is more inherently a function of the driver and damping?). The subbass on some of those headphones you cite is actually not that impressive. The LCD-3, an open headphone, has some of the best subbass of anything out there right now. Maybe the best as far as full-sized headphones go (provided you have a pair that is "correct" lol).

 

4. The TH900 is indeed a very clean headphone in the bass region. This is good, because it allows you to EQ the bass more easily. However this is most certainly not a function of the cups. The Denons you list are very distorted in the bass region. Their bass is actually quite poor in terms of texture and detail and snappiness. All it does is WUB WUB WUB. At least on the earlier models. Same with most Ultrasones.

 

5. Speaking of Ultrasone, they use the same drivers in the 2900 as the 900, and the bass on them is very very similar! I wonder how bassy we could keep the TH900 while moving to open cups. Just food for thought.

 

6. My point was never about the majority of one architecture or another. That's actually what I'm trying to avoid, because it leads to erroneous conclusions (like "tubes are warm and mushy"). I simply stated that there are definite examples of open headphones that are quite bassy. The "open headphones can't do bass" thing is, at the end of the day, a myth.


Edited by MuppetFace - 4/28/13 at 4:48am
post #10774 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuppetFace View Post


Clean lower bass? LCD-3. Can't beat it, really. Just a shame the rest of its sound isn't that hot.

Is that a pun?
post #10775 of 21761

post #10776 of 21761

Somebody someday will have the makings of a good study comparing collective efforts at solving designed puzzles like this Boards of Canada game or ARGs like ilovebees, and at resolving real-world dilemmas like the Boston Marathon bombing.

post #10777 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgray91 View Post


Is that a pun?

 


It was meant to have double meaning. The LCD-3 really excels in bass, particularly lower bass. The rest of the spectrum however isn't as impressive: the highs in particular just lack any sense of air, and the sound overall is closed-in and a bit lifeless. Congested. Not very engaging. It's not particularly adept at presenting subtle dynamics, nuances in volume changes, etc.

 

However these observations come from the "less than stellar" pairs I've heard, including my own. There was one set that was much clearer and more open sounding, more engaging. A few others have encountered these neigh-mythical LCD-3s from time to time. A friend of mine got one after sending his veiled one in for RMA work. When I got mine back from Audez'e, the sound was slightly less congested, but overall it wasn't much of an improvement. In some ways I actually find these lesser LCD-3s to be a step back from the LCD-2 in certain respects.

 

I'm going to be modifying my pair soon. An ortho-phile friend of mine has some mods he developed for it, and they improved the sound quite a bit on his set and another head-fier's. I'll also be sending them in to Martin Custom Audio for some new wood rings. Don't care for the zebrawood at all, so I'll be going for a different variety. I'm also not particularly fond of the chrome connectors, so I'm going to have them included as part of the cups like on the older LCD-2s. Oh yeah, new earpads too. I've still got the original ones that are like deployed parachutes, and they bother me somethin' fierce.

post #10778 of 21761

I was more impressed by the zebrawood in person than I had been by photos of the LCD-3. But, yeah, whether or not it looks good, it doesn't actually look like an improved, higher-quality product than the LCD-2. I suspect most of the design decisions improve the physical robustness at the cost of overall appearance.

post #10779 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

I was more impressed by the zebrawood in person than I had been by photos of the LCD-3. But, yeah, whether or not it looks good, it doesn't actually look like an improved, higher-quality product than the LCD-2. I suspect most of the design decisions improve the physical robustness at the cost of overall appearance.

 

The angled connectors were definitely a response to some incidents where the wood cracked around the original ones. That was the biggest weak spot on the older style cups, I believe. I don't think they look bad, at least in the matte black finish used on the newer LCD-2s, but I really don't care for their chrome finish on the LCD-3.

 

The look of the LCD-2 has a lot of appeal for me. My personal favorite variant was the original LCD-2 with the metal and foam headband, thinner pads, and rosewood with carved connector posts. Of course, comfort-wise this was probably the most problematic for a lot of people. Most of the exterior changes over time were indeed for ergonomics and comfort, though the cushier pads also improved the sound (without going overboard like the first version of the LCD-3 pads...).

 

In any case, the LCD has a very "workbench" type of look in my opinion. It's like a prototype on its way to being a final product, and personally I really like that sort of thing. I like how the cups can be detached easily from the frame, though I'm not so fond of the way the pads are applied. Speaking of... the Abyss uses a magnet system for securing the cups, which I think it really cool. They just magnetically snap on and off.

 

Not sure if I like the bamboo as much as the rosewood on the newer LCD-2s, though it saves a bit on weight and production costs. Apparently the rosewood has gone up in price because it's harder to source now. For a while they cost the same, but now the rosewood is an option that costs a few hundred more.

 

I'll be trying out the suede headband and pads---what Audez'e refers to as their vegan option---with the mods to my LCD-3.

 

Edit:

 

My experience with Audez'e hasn't always been a smooth ride, particularly when they were still newcomers and still learning how to deal with the massive influx of customers resulting from all the hype surrounding the first LCD-2. Specifically, the adjustment gimbals developed hairline cracks that eventually grew to the point where the blocks fractured completely, and there was nothing substantive to attach the cups to the main assembly. I waited several months for replacements. Finally when they showed up I discovered Audez'e left out the new sized screws (and I couldn't use the older ones). LOL. So I waited a few more months. 


Edited by MuppetFace - 4/28/13 at 7:03am
post #10780 of 21761

When I first heard GirlsGeneration's LCD 3s at my last headphone meet I wasn't impressed at all either. I thought it sounded rather rolly poley slow and thought the mids sounded veiled. If given the choice I'd take the LCD 2 over the 3 any day and use the savings of a 1000 bones towards another headphone or maybe amp or DAC. The only niggle I had against the LCD 2 was the vocals sounded a little shouty in spots but even so I thought it was an incredibly fun sounding headphone.

 

You guys think they'll nail it this time around with their closed back and not screw it up like they did with the LCD 3?

 


Edited by DigitalFreak - 4/28/13 at 10:06am
post #10781 of 21761

I think the only thing I would care to try relating to Audeze is the LCD-2/Pan Am combo. That video just made it too appealing with the LCD-3, but I prefer warmer sounds overall, so yeah.

 

 

Also, I need to quit being lazy on this thread. I do stuff for a week, come back and there's 500 posts redface.gif

 

Boards of Canada, what can I say? I think what they are doing is cool, they are making audiences work a little harder at getting music, something most of us don't have to worry about anymore. 

 

So I guess a little update from me: I FINALLY ordered the 5 pin DIN sockets (see: midi plugs) to finish my completely rigged up PS1 CDP. All I have left is a couple small cosmetic things to deal with (one being whether I'm going to make the faces out of Ipe or Macassar Ebony), and it should be ready for service. I would love to collect vinyl instead, but the cost of good vinyl and the cost of maintaining a turntable is unappealing for me at the moment.

 

I also ordered a mini XLR jack to redo my T50RP's. When I had my last pair modded, I had some M80's, so I never experienced the stock cable. Now that I have, I feel it can be used as an example of cable capacitance. I can physically move the cable into an inductive type circle and change the noises that I hear. At first I freaked, thinking it was either my Magni (which has been known to be sensitive to RFI/EMI from my phone) or the jack in the T50RP's was screwed up, but after a little more testing, nope. Just this sucky cable.

 

I'll also be getting my impressions done for my Cosmic Ears BA4's this week. Pretty excited, Phil did an amazing job on the shell design:

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

How does everyone feel about customs and amping? I've been recently thinking of picking up another tube amp, but the impedance of these (10 ohms) combined with a high sensitivity makes me slightly wary. Thoughts?

 

Babbling over.

post #10782 of 21761
Tolerant to streaming music on the computer when at work? Want to listen to some great video game and anime music with a dash of classical and jazz? Why not try Eden of the West; it's only a click and a flash player away.


No, seriously. It's a great internet radio, although there's no DJ (and ads for that matter).
post #10783 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosshorn View Post

How does everyone feel about customs and amping? I've been recently thinking of picking up another tube amp, but the impedance of these (10 ohms) combined with a high sensitivity makes me slightly wary. Thoughts?

 

I use amps with customs all the time. No tube amps, though. IEMs (generally, not customs specifically) tend to be more sensitive than full-size headphones, and pick up low-level amp noise very easily. Most tube amps tend to be a little noisy, although (on good amps, anyway) not noticeable on full-sized phones. This doesn't rule out all tube amps, but read reviews of them carefully to confirm they're noiseless, or that the noise level is low enough to not be distracting on IEMs.


Edited by ardgedee - 4/28/13 at 2:25pm
post #10784 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosshorn View Post

 

 


 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

How does everyone feel about customs and amping? I've been recently thinking of picking up another tube amp, but the impedance of these (10 ohms) combined with a high sensitivity makes me slightly wary. Thoughts?

 

Babbling over.

Congratulations, those customs look gorgeous, I hope they sound as good as they look. I rarely listen to my customs, or universals, without an amp. I recommend a Leckerton amp, for the price its a great buy.

post #10785 of 21761

That does look pretty sweet.

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