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The diary entries of a little girl in her 30s! ~ Part 2 - Page 700  

post #10486 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

All the speaker boys are clamoring to get in on the headphones action:

 

 

 

They should do something about that 90's German style beard before they get into any sort of "action".

post #10487 of 21761

lol

post #10488 of 21761
Thread Starter 

The RE-400 sounds somewhat different from the RE0 to my ears. The overall balance is less trebley with a bit more bottom end presence.

post #10489 of 21761

I found the RE-Zero kind of honky in the mids. I sold it within hours of getting it. 

 

Is the 400 like that?

post #10490 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I believe that, given one's ears are fully functional, the sound waves reaching out ear drums are all the same. The variations come from the psyche.

I don't know how much of an argument I'm falling into here, but I feel like even though what you say has the grain of truth it's not quite right.

Ears and ear canals have different shapes; the sound waves will be affected differently. Similarly, our hearing is different even to the extent that our abilities to hear test well; we are sensitive to different frequencies to different degrees.

On top of that, as you say, are our psychological preferences. But even that affects physical effects; some transducers perform better when driven more loudly than a given listener is comfortable with -- which can result in one person complaining an IEM is mushy and mids-emphasized where another considers it well-balanced and articulate.
post #10491 of 21761
Leave it to Boards of Canada to turn an album release into a cryptic information event that has to be unlocked by conspiracy theorists.

(Oh yeah, a new BoC album release on the same year as a new MBV release? The planets of the 1990s are aligning. Expect earthquakes and fish falling from the sky and numbers stations broadcasting in plain English.)
post #10492 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

I found the RE-Zero kind of honky in the mids. I sold it within hours of getting it. 

 

Is the 400 like that?


There's a slight metallic tonality, but nothing I'd describe as honky.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

Leave it to Boards of Canada to turn an album release into a cryptic information event that has to be unlocked by conspiracy theorists.

(Oh yeah, a new BoC album release on the same year as a new MBV release? The planets of the 1990s are aligning. Expect earthquakes and fish falling from the sky and numbers stations broadcasting in plain English.)

 

!!!!

 

By the way, I was planning on doing a post about the numbers stations. I recently got a hold of the Conet Project CD / book, so it rekindled my interest.

 

Now we just need some new Aphex Twin...

post #10493 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

I don't know how much of an argument I'm falling into here, but I feel like even though what you say has the grain of truth it's not quite right.

Ears and ear canals have different shapes; the sound waves will be affected differently. Similarly, our hearing is different even to the extent that our abilities to hear test well; we are sensitive to different frequencies to different degrees.

On top of that, as you say, are our psychological preferences. But even that affects physical effects; some transducers perform better when driven more loudly than a given listener is comfortable with -- which can result in one person complaining an IEM is mushy and mids-emphasized where another considers it well-balanced and articulate.

While I agree that there are slight differences, they are made out to be far larger than they actually are. The differences that some people claim are almost pathological in nature.

Regardless of a person's listening preferences, the sound waves are still the same. In the case of your example, the iem simply may not be suited for low volume listening...for those who prefer balanced sound.
post #10494 of 21761

I want to cite a figure published in a paper last year, Lee J, et. al. Hearing & Ear, 2012; <doi;10.1097/AUD.0b013e31823d7917> while the paper itself doesn't have too much to do with the topic (or is it debate? Not sure.) at hand (well, it does, but only indirectly), I find that this figure shows how difficult it is to communicate to each other clearly on hearing nuances.

 

 

As one can see, the gray curves represent measurements using a miniature probe microphone inserted at different depths of the ear canal, and the variance in what is picked up varies wildly with (half-wave) frequency. This means that the small volume within the ear canal is subject to many input parameters (depth, residual volume upon insertion, on/off-axis to the orthogonal plane of the tympanic membrane) that the act of wearing an earphone, or simulating the ear's response with an ear simulator is extremely difficult to control.

 

So what I want to say is, yes, for the most part, we all hear the same, as evolution basically dictates such a notion. Even with great anatomical variances, the end result is that we're more sensitive at some frequencies and less at others --- it's a fact of our species. However, trying to translate perceptions into words, or attempting to simulate the mechanical-acoustic coupling of our auditory system, is highly variable, and requires a high degree of precision. It is these difficulties, along with typical human disbelief, that create the space for audiophile debate. For the measurements people, the fact that the IEC-60318-7 standard is merely the best standard available means not that it is the measuring stick, as it's rather imperfect. And for the people who write our own personal opinions, our thoughts can be only beliefs that can only be at best imprecisely communicated to others.

post #10495 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

As one can see, the gray curves represent measurements using a miniature probe microphone inserted at different depths of the ear canal, and the variance in what is picked up varies wildly with (half-wave) frequency.

Excellent. Brought up the other thing I had meant to mention: Even if shape of the canal does not itself affect sound, it can affect IEM insertion and that is known to affect sound, sometimes profoundly.

Heck, one of my customs can sound more trebly or bassy just within the small range of rotation possible in my ear. I don't think there's anything mysterious to this; I think it has to do with one of the drivers' holes in the nozzle getting pushed close to a bend in the canal.

It's an area where small physical changes can have significant perceptible effects. One of the things we tend to ignore in our mental models of earphones is how squishy our ears are.
Edited by ardgedee - 4/23/13 at 7:09am
post #10496 of 21761
In totally unrelated news, the K1000 sounds amazing through the UHA-6S. That was a real eye-opener. If it hadn't recently become a collector's fetish item again, I might even consider getting one. The K1000, I mean -- I already have the portable amp.

Instead, I'm contemplating how one could be made from scratch -- in a way, it's just a large tweeter in a frame with a minimal baffle, not particularly unlike other earspeaker configurations (particularly the Stax Sigma, or the headphones Jeorg Jecklin designed before the Floats, like the PMB100/QP80). What AKG did (and maybe got right) was to put the drivers on hinges and ensure that the space around the ears is as unobstructed as possible (the contact points are on the temple above the ears) to minimize the possibility of creating a sound passage or instigate reflections.
post #10497 of 21761
Excellent post, Tom.

The point of my post wasn't to say that we don't hear differently at all, but more to dispel certain trends I've seen recently. I mention that I've been lurking a lot lately - that's why I put my account into incognito, so I can do it in silence - and I notice a lot of things that are just disappointing. The worst of them is "x is faaaaar better than y." Then, people buy y, only to find it to be a simple change in sound sig. The effect then dominoes when these new purchasers gush about the tiniest things, and refuse to discuss any flaws with the product.

A turning point for me in the hobby was the ASG-1 saga. The original obviously had ridiculously shouty mids, but there was one individual who was hyping it to no end, calling it the best he had heard and that it surpassed everything. When I got my own pair and found it to be a fallacy, I pm'ed him asking for tips. He then admitted to me that he was using two hifiman filters to tame the sound, and begged me not to mention it on the forums. rolleyes.gif
post #10498 of 21761
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardgedee View Post

In totally unrelated news, the K1000 sounds amazing through the UHA-6S.

 

Yeah, I was really impressed with how well the UHA-6S handled the K1000. The DX100 did a pretty good job too.

 

The K1000 and I have had a rather stormy relationship over the years. I'd want to track down a lower serial number, as the higher ones tend to be too thin and shrill sounding.

post #10499 of 21761

Looking at the new Galaxy, the specs seems to be disappointing rolleyes.gif No Octa in Australia means no wolfson in Australia biggrin.gif

post #10500 of 21761
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

Im curious what you didn't like about the RE0 though James? :3 I bought my pair for $260 AUD way back when. I still think its a pretty awesome thing.  

 

What can I say, I had filter modded RE1s and liked them very much. Surprisingly though I could never quite warm up to the more popular RE0. Here's an old post of mine from the e-Q5 thread:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I know I'm a minority, but in my book the RE0 are a failed attempt to cater "something different" to audiophiles by making a dynamic driver sound like an armature. Failed of course not in a commercial sense, but sonically, because the result is a rather obtrusive castrato phone with strangled bass and screechy treble.

 

The e-Q5 sound far less constrained and wonderfully relaxed to my ears, their bass doesn't have all too much punch either, but is at least allowed to pulsate freely and their highs are easily likable and never screechy.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

If my RE0s worked I might be inclined to agree. Alas they do not work and have not worked for almost a year now. These are the only IEMs I have ever owned where the drivers (not the cables) have blown multiple times and I've had to send them back multiple times.

 

Bad build quality on my RE1s (I actually had two pairs) and the RE0, plus the obscure RE252 design were among the main reasons why I lost interest in HiFiMAN products back then.

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