Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › iPhone 5 (and new Touch) has totally new dock connector - 'Lightning' - adapters available but no line-out
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

iPhone 5 (and new Touch) has totally new dock connector - 'Lightning' - adapters available but... - Page 11

post #151 of 391
9/14/12 at 2:04am

To all the people fearing that the 29$ lightning adapter could have a worse DAC than the iPhone:

 

The iPhone 4 uses a "Cirrus Logic CS4398" DAC. It costs 6$ if you buy a single piece as a private customer. Apple will pay much less for it. Why should they use a cheaper one in the lighning to Dock adapter?

Reply

Head-Fi's Best Sellers

post #152 of 391
9/14/12 at 2:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celador View Post

To all the people fearing that the 29$ lightning adapter could have a worse DAC than the iPhone:

 

The iPhone 4 uses a "Cirrus Logic CS4398" DAC. It costs 6$ if you buy a single piece as a private customer. Apple will pay much less for it. Why should they use a cheaper one in the lighning to Dock adapter?


 Not being an engineer myself my doubts are about implementation, clocking and power supply in such a tiny thing.

 

Obviously i'd be delighted if the line level signal coming off the adapter would be as good as the old line out port signal was/is.

Reply
post #153 of 391
9/14/12 at 4:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celador View Post

To all the people fearing that the 29$ lightning adapter could have a worse DAC than the iPhone:

 

The iPhone 4 uses a "Cirrus Logic CS4398" DAC. It costs 6$ if you buy a single piece as a private customer. Apple will pay much less for it. Why should they use a cheaper one in the lighning to Dock adapter?

 

Because implementation is everything.

 

As elfary pointed out, its about more than the chip. You might like to read some of the reviews of various implementations of the SABRE DAC, and that costs a lot more than the Cirrus chip in the iDevices. Its about a lot more than Apple using a 'cheaper one' in the adapter, but its all moot until someone gives us feedback, and that wont happen till October. 

Reply
post #154 of 391
9/14/12 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfary View Post

Breaking News - UPDATED APPLE STORE INFO ON THE ADAPTER -

 

Overview

This adapter lets you connect devices with a Lightning connector to many of your 30-pin accessories.* Support for analog audio output, USB audio, as well as syncing and charging. Video output not supported.

 

 

Thus is official now that there's line out signal off the adapter and hence iPhones are still capable of line out via the adapter. Which still puts them above Androids and WP8 devices in that very realm of the line out (Let's see how much time passes by before the competition copies this kind of adapter)

 

 

Sorry, can't resist!

Samsung Android phone  > digital out > kind of adapter > line out > amp

[img]http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/c0/350x263px-LL-c02d7f65_USBOTG.jpeg[/img]

Reply
post #155 of 391
9/14/12 at 4:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celador View Post

To all the people fearing that the 29$ lightning adapter could have a worse DAC than the iPhone:

 

The iPhone 4 uses a "Cirrus Logic CS4398" DAC. It costs 6$ if you buy a single piece as a private customer. Apple will pay much less for it. Why should they use a cheaper one in the lighning to Dock adapter?

Indeed. It might be hard to believe, but sound processors are awfully cheap. They don't need hundreds of massive, complicated ALUs inside GPUs or CPUs and consume very little power - DACs do not need to provide amperage and have relatively simple circuitry. It wouldn't be hard for an iPhone to supply the power. Apple has always been quite obsessive about perfection, so chances are the new dock won't disappoint in sound quality. In a worse case scenario, an old iDevice could just act as a LOD source at home. Unless I'm mistaken most people (slash audiophiles) don't carry amps with them on the go since they use IEMs. I do believe, though, that Lightning to USB works like any other USB audio input.

 

I just placed a pre-order for a iPod Touch 5. I'll let you guys know when the time comes. As for those lucky will be iPhone 5 users, I'll be looking forward to your impressions first :).

Reply
post #156 of 391
9/14/12 at 9:00am

I understand that current LODs will be affected. However, doesn't it also mean that in the future we can have even smaller LODs, or direct plugins to a DAC/AMP? 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/14/new_lightning_dock_connector_capable_of_hosting_usb_devices___report

 

--

Stay tune for the Centrance HiFi-M8 as well. It might be compatible..Might. I'm just guessing.

http://centrance.com/products/new/blog/


Edited by eron - 9/14/12 at 9:06am
Reply
post #157 of 391
9/14/12 at 10:15pm

If i understand right,so they putted an audio dac in this new lightning  adapter,how the hell they did in such a small device?

Reply
post #158 of 391
9/14/12 at 11:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by antberg View Post

If i understand right,so they putted an audio dac in this new lightning  adapter,how the hell they did in such a small device?

An iPhone contains a huge display, a battery, a dual core computer system with up to 64 gb, several antennas, a camera, a bunch of other things AND a DAC. So why shouldn't a small adapter be capable of holding just a DAC which at least is not worse than the iPhones?
Edited by Celador - 9/15/12 at 12:23am
Reply
post #159 of 391
9/14/12 at 11:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celador View Post


An iPhone contains a huge display, a battery, a dual core computer system with up to 64 gb ram, several antennas, a camera, a bunch of other things AND a DAC. So why shouldn't a small adapter be capable of holding just a DAC which at least is not worse than the iPhones?

 

There is no reason to believe that there is a DAC inside this adapter.  IMO, the iPhone/iDevice will sense when the 30-pin adapter is attached, and switch the functions of the Lightning pins to be appropriate for the adapter (in this case, 2 of the pins being stereo analog audio).  The adapter would contain the minimum amount of circuitry for this to work.  I could be wrong, but this makes the most sense to me.  Apple has no reason to waste money putting a DAC into the adapter when they already have one inside every iDevice.  still it wouldnt be shocking if it does have a DAC and its actually better than whats in the phone.  theres a fair amount of circuitry inside the USB camera connection kit adapter for the iPad.

 


Edited by justin w. - 9/15/12 at 12:11am
HeadAmp Insider

HeadAmp Audio Electronics - home of the Pico and Gilmore amps.  Now offering Audeze, HiFiMAN, and STAX headphones.
Find us at www.HeadAmp.com

» Get the latest news and updates at the HeadAmp sponsor page.
Reply
post #160 of 391
9/15/12 at 5:09am
I have three questions:

* Will the iPhone 5 work directly when connected to USB desktop DACs via Lightning?
* Will the iPhone 5 (and iTunes) properly support hi-res files, finally?
* Could Gordon Rankin or someone else develop a Dragonfly-like mini DAC specifically for the iPhone 5?

Apple tends to under-deliver when it comes to audio performance, but we can hope.
Reply
post #161 of 391
9/15/12 at 6:23am
Thread Starter 

I suspect that your vision for the iPhone 5 is about 180 degrees away from the designers at Apple Corp. Seems they thought they were designing a smartphone which happens to also play music - who knew ? Unless Gordon can write an app which sells for 4.99, chances are his impact in the Apple Universe will be zero. 

Reply
post #162 of 391
9/15/12 at 6:40am

So does this mean that there will soon be lightning-to-usb cables which means you can plug your iPhone 5 straight into any external portable DAC with a USB connection? No more specialized products needed to extract a digital signal from portable i-devices - since they only give a digital out now?

 

If so, is there likely to soon be an emergence of Portable DAC + Headphone Amp Combo products in the market?

Reply
post #163 of 391
9/15/12 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregeas View Post

I have three questions:
* Will the iPhone 5 work directly when connected to USB desktop DACs via Lightning?
* Will the iPhone 5 (and iTunes) properly support hi-res files, finally?
* Could Gordon Rankin or someone else develop a Dragonfly-like mini DAC specifically for the iPhone 5?
Apple tends to under-deliver when it comes to audio performance, but we can hope.

 

Not sure I agree with this....

Reply
post #164 of 391
9/15/12 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus_farmer View Post

So does this mean that there will soon be lightning-to-usb cables which means you can plug your iPhone 5 straight into any external portable DAC with a USB connection? No more specialized products needed to extract a digital signal from portable i-devices - since they only give a digital out now?

 

If so, is there likely to soon be an emergence of Portable DAC + Headphone Amp Combo products in the market?

Exactly my thoughts. 

I personally am not concerned. If I can get usb digital out, I am more than happy. I am also concerned with how the headphone out sounds as ultra portable, or semi portable (with a high quality usb dac/amp) are imo the best two formats for an iphone.

Would be laughing if I could connect my JH3a via usb. (coax would be asking too much i'm sure.)


Edited by customNuts - 9/15/12 at 9:07am
Reply
post #165 of 391
9/15/12 at 10:43am

I'm not worried about the line-out/dock/external DAC/amp stuff. I have other source devices for that. What I want to know is what the iPhone5 has internally for a DAC, and how good it will sound through the regular headphone out. I had heard some rumors about iPhone5 going back to Wolfson DACs. Anyone know if that's true? I haven't seen anything definitive on it. 

 

All I know is, the iPhone4s headphone out sounds fantastic - so hoping for at least as good from the iPhone5 :)

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear

Head-Fi's Best Sellers

Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › iPhone 5 (and new Touch) has totally new dock connector - 'Lightning' - adapters available but no line-out