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Stax SR-009: suggestions to tone down the brightness? - Page 2

post #16 of 197

I have a Liquid Lightning on loan and it has made many unbearably edgy songs/tunes sound more like listening to live recording sessions/performance. It can be truly awesome ! :D


Edited by rubenpp - 9/10/12 at 9:04pm
post #17 of 197

I'd make the same suggestion buy it's not really the kind of change he's looking for, me thinks. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubenpp View Post

I have a Liquid Lightning on loan and it has made many unbearably edgy songs/tunes sound more like listening to live recording sessions/performance. It can be truly awesome ! :D

 

You could throw a nice EQ in the mix. Easiest way to get it done. If push comes to shove you could get an 007. It's significantly different from the 009.

post #18 of 197

I have tried different sources to see how it affects the brightness of the SR-009.

 

My conclusion:  Any solid state DAC I have used results in unacceptable brightness.  A tube based DAC with upsampleing has substantially less brightness.   A tube based DAC without upsampleing - to my ears- results in no noticeable brightness on the SR-009.  It also sounds fuller- a nice plus for somewhat thin sounding headphones.


Edited by rsbrsvp - 9/11/12 at 5:39am
post #19 of 197
Thread Starter 

thanks guys for all the suggestions.

 

i have been listening to my rig last few nights and it seems to get much better over time. either

 

i) i am getting used to the brightness, or

 

ii) the 007tA is running in.

 

i sure hope is it the latter:)

 

btw, anyone of you tried the woo audio wee?

post #20 of 197

Is that how to rewire the tube sockets in 007t for other tubes, with more power than 6CG7?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

The real cause of this bright nature is the diaphragm and its properties so there isn't a whole lot you can do about that.  I haven't tampered with the cable on the 009 but I have swapped the cable on the 507 and it made no difference.  I doubt you upstream stuff is causing any issues as Accuphase is about as good as it gets.  Now the 007t is a good amp but hampered by the tubes it uses (type not brand).  There is a fix to that but you have to be a bit nutty to even try it... 

 

 

This is only recommended if you know what you are doing...  Other than that, find a SR-Omega which has only brief spells of brightness and sounds awesome. 

post #21 of 197

Not more power but rather better voltage specs.  That is an amp rewired for 6S4A's which can handle more power but more importantly, can take far more voltage.  No more compression at higher levels and the amp doesn't sound like a garbled mess. 

post #22 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

Not more power but rather better voltage specs.  That is an amp rewired for 6S4A's which can handle more power but more importantly, can take far more voltage.  No more compression at higher levels and the amp doesn't sound like a garbled mess. 

 

Sounds interesting. I've decided that, in the end, I don't like any of the sets of 6FQ7s I have here, so if I could find a 007t that could be modded, the idea would be tempting. Is there anything else required beyond the wiring in the picture?

post #23 of 197

You only have to cut all traces to the tubes (minus the filament) and better yet remove them completely.  Then rebias the amp as if it were a SRM-T1 (only use TVR1 and TVR2).  It's a bit of a pain to cut the traces but a steady hand and some good blades help. 

post #24 of 197

I'd just get a nice EQ if I were in your situation.

post #25 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbrsvp View Post

I have tried different sources to see how it affects the brightness of the SR-009.

 

My conclusion:  Any solid state DAC I have used results in unacceptable brightness.  A tube based DAC with upsampleing has substantially less brightness.   A tube based DAC without upsampleing - to my ears- results in no noticeable brightness on the SR-009.  It also sounds fuller- a nice plus for somewhat thin sounding headphones.

That sounds really interesting!!!

I have same opinion based in my experience with speakers. I was thinking to sell my AudioNote 3.1x full upgrade NOS DAC but after I,ve read your impressions about brightness associated with upsamplig and solid state DACs I,ve decided to stop selling untill I can hear it with my SR-009. I'm reading many comments about brightness and SR-009 and most of them  have a solid state or upsamplig source associated.

 

Thank you. 


Edited by Sahara - 9/17/12 at 9:10pm
post #26 of 197

"Brightness" has nothing to do with up-sampling, unless doing so increases distortion. Components that use a lot of feedback in their amplification circuits tend to be associated with fatiguing treble. 

 

If someone finds 009s to be too bright, then 007s are the answer IMO.

post #27 of 197

IMHO the differences between 009 and 007 simply not bright and dark, to assume 007 is the dark version of 009 can be misleading. Different sound signature, different tonality. In fact both is quite different.

post #28 of 197

I agree with that and the perceived darkness is pretty much a moot point once they have a suitable amp behind them.  I also don't think the sledgehammer like EQ tricks people are talking about somehow fixes the problem when the 009 is clearly at fault.  NOS dac or some horrible tube output stage doesn't change the fact that the transducer is highly flawed so why pay for all that supposed resolution just to throw it away at the source?  On the amp front I've done a lot of testing and there is no magic bullet which can fix them so it all boils down to how you are going to roll off the top end (high output capacitance, some super simple stage which does it naturally or perhaps both) and how much distortion you are going to inject above 1kHz. 

 

I do have an ideal amp for the 009 on the books but it's basically a modern version of a 1970 design which speaks volumes about what we are dealing with.  Same tuning necessary as with the HEV90 so instead of striving for the best performance possible we have to hit the elusive mark of something that sounds "right", whatever that may be. 

 

There is also something to consider, almost half of all the headphones Stax have released have been "off" in some way or the other.  It's just the stand out models that manage to keep the brand name so strong so for every SR-Lambda we have the Lambda Pro, for the SR-3 we have the SR-3N, SR-5N we have the SR-5, SR-XMk3 we have the SR-X Mk2, SR-Sigma we have the SR-Sigma Pro and the list goes on. 

post #29 of 197

I'm not sure its how the Dac is constructed is necessarily the issue Nos, upsample, oversample  However the race to ever higher resolution which seems to make the sound to my ears in many cases, relentless and mechanical which seems to come across to as a brightness by enhancing the deatil.  If you are used to attending live music it just does not sound relaxed dnd natural.  Yes you can hear things in the recording you may not have heard before but its almost larger than life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbrsvp View Post

I have tried different sources to see how it affects the brightness of the SR-009.

 

My conclusion:  Any solid state DAC I have used results in unacceptable brightness.  A tube based DAC with upsampleing has substantially less brightness.   A tube based DAC without upsampleing - to my ears- results in no noticeable brightness on the SR-009.  It also sounds fuller- a nice plus for somewhat thin sounding headphones.


Edited by complin - 9/18/12 at 1:45pm
post #30 of 197
In my opinion the greater upsamplig means higher resolution, but the sensation of artificial sound and excess of brightness is patent. With these conditions if we add a resolutive headphnes, perhaps the sensation is not satisfactory.

I think that NOS DAC which there is no upsamplig the sound is not as refined, but it is more natural and balanced, then brightness is not so patent.
 
I had the Cary CDP 303/300 for near two years and I,ve tried all possible tube & solid state upsamplig/downsamplig configurations with it. After that I decided the most natural sound was associated to non up&oversamplig and bought the AN.
 
If SR-009 is so neutral as people say I think the most important is to get our "sound aesthetic" from the associated system.
 
Cheers
 

Edited by Sahara - 9/18/12 at 8:37pm
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