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Best classical recordings...ever! - Page 105

post #1561 of 2177
Maybe downplayed is the wrong word... What I mean to say is that the emotions in Mahler need to be carefully balanced in scale against each other. It isn't good to just go for fire and play every one for a 10 on 1 to 10. Some need to be held back to allow later ones to play off them properly. To me, Solti sounds like he is flipping back and forth from the same sort of loud to the same sort of quiet over and over again. It makes Mahler tiresome to listen to that way.

It's weird because I don't feel the same about other composers. I think it's because Mahler is so long winded, the shifts can become annoying back and forth if each one isn't carefully scaled to fit into the flow of the whole. Other composers have more gradation built into the music itself.
post #1562 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Maybe downplayed is the wrong word... What I mean to say is that the emotions in Mahler need to be carefully balanced in scale against each other. It isn't good to just go for fire and play every one for a 10 on 1 to 10. Some need to be held back to allow later ones to play off them properly. To me, Solti sounds like he is flipping back and forth from the same sort of loud to the same sort of quiet over and over again. It makes Mahler tiresome to listen to that way.

It's weird because I don't feel the same about other composers. I think it's because Mahler is so long winded, the shifts can become annoying back and forth if each one isn't carefully scaled to fit into the flow of the whole. Other composers have more gradation built into the music itself.

Sounds like, from your perspective, the Thomas Sanderling 6th is right up your alley.  What really impresses me about the performance is the way he holds back the tide of emotion and keeps things very controlled and perfectly paced so that by the time that crashing minor chord is let loose at the end of the Finale it's impact is overwhelming in a way I've not heard in any other performance.


Edited by Andolink - 3/23/14 at 5:20am
post #1563 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

I don't listen to CDs themselves much any more. Everything gets ripped to AAC and added to my rapidly expanding music server.

I agree. Good music first, then good sound. Nothing else matters. Whichever format works best for you is best. They all can sound good if the engineering is good.

Still, the problem HOW  to ripp remains exactly the same. Once on hard disc (or whatever), it is OK - but if one is ripping "street numbers" instead of the actual content of the recording, is bound to listen to these errors while ripping - for good.

 

I agree "good music first, then good sound". But if the master was too flawed in the first place, no amount of engineering after the fact can make it better.

post #1564 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Maybe downplayed is the wrong word... What I mean to say is that the emotions in Mahler need to be carefully balanced in scale against each other. It isn't good to just go for fire and play every one for a 10 on 1 to 10. Some need to be held back to allow later ones to play off them properly. To me, Solti sounds like he is flipping back and forth from the same sort of loud to the same sort of quiet over and over again. It makes Mahler tiresome to listen to that way.

It's weird because I don't feel the same about other composers. I think it's because Mahler is so long winded, the shifts can become annoying back and forth if each one isn't carefully scaled to fit into the flow of the whole. Other composers have more gradation built into the music itself.

I don't think it helps that the Solti Decca Mahler recordings (certainly the CD versions) are heavily compressed, so everything sounds loud, whatever the dynamic.  I totally do understand what you mean about Solti's hard edged approach, I just see the good in his approach as well.  Have you heard his later 5th, live from the Musikverein in Vienna with the Chicago Symphony? That's a lot more open recording, with real subtlety and charm, as well as fire and passion.  The climaxes definitely need to be graded in Mahler and Solti does just that in that Vienna recording.  Do check it out.

post #1565 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


Anyway, my point is that I love Mahler's music so much that I crave to hear different approaches, just so I can relive the piece in a different way. There can always be something to take away from another's interpretation of such substantial edifices of sound. I'd much rather do that than find things to bash about.

 

Good thinking IMO.

 

Mahler interpretations seem to polarize listeners' opinions more than most other composers.

Kind of like Beethoven.

 

I've seen grown men fight like children many times to defend their opinions on Mahler performances.

post #1566 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post
 

 

Good thinking IMO.

 

Mahler interpretations seem to polarize listeners' opinions more than most other composers.

Kind of like Beethoven.

 

I've seen grown men fight like children many times to defend their opinions on Mahler performances.

Agreed on all 3 counts.

 

I even changed my mind about some conductors, Abbado at least - once upon a time, i could not possibly stomach his Mahler. Now I can appreciate what he brought to the table. 

post #1567 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post

 

Good thinking IMO.

Mahler interpretations seem to polarize listeners' opinions more than most other composers.
Kind of like Beethoven.

I've seen grown men fight like children many times to defend their opinions on Mahler performances.
Agreed on all 3 counts.

I even changed my mind about some conductors, Abbado at least - once upon a time, i could not possibly stomach his Mahler. Now I can appreciate what he brought to the table. 
Yeah, one of the best Mahler 2nd and 7th ever imaginable!
post #1568 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by sh4dowd4ncer View Post
 

In the same subject, one can grab Bernstein's NYPO Mahler cycle (Sony) for extra 9 USD

http://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Complete-Symphonies-Gustav/dp/B005SJIP1E/ref=sr_1_16?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1395265502&sr=1-16

 

Price dropped 6% (was $38.32 when added to Wish List)

post #1569 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by fractus2 View Post
 

 

Price dropped 6% (was $38.32 when added to Wish List)


Cool. That is an incredible offer in my opinion.

Despite all controversial view about Mahler's conductors, one cannot say that understands Mahler without listen Bernstein cycle.

For good or for bad, Bernstein's Mahler made history.

post #1570 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by sh4dowd4ncer View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fractus2 View Post
 

 

Price dropped 6% (was $38.32 when added to Wish List)


Cool. That is an incredible offer in my opinion.

Despite all controversial view about Mahler's conductors, one cannot say that understands Mahler without listen Bernstein cycle.

For good or for bad, Bernstein's Mahler made history.

It made history for good and that's without doubt.

post #1571 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post
 

It made history for good and that's without doubt.


Indeed he did great work and contributed a lot to the popularity of Mahler's music ( and Adorno's book) in the early sixties..

post #1572 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post
 

It made history for good and that's without doubt.


Hehehehe.. My wife is the witness how I agree on that.

Just wanted to put my opinion on a neutral tone...

Cheers.

 

PS.In this same thread Quinto posted a video that shows a bit about Mahler + Bernstein.

Something really, I mean really, nice.

Special note to the 29 minute

"I don´t care about your acht Stunden... Wir arbeiten oder wir arbeiten nicht..... Wir werden keinen Mahler haben"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvBbe8Nkgz8

post #1573 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinto View Post
 


Indeed he did great work and contributed a lot to the popularity of Mahler's music ( and Adorno's book) in the early sixties..


Yes, but... the sound on those old Columbia recordings isn't what RCA gave Zinman - and if ever there was a composer where sound quality matters, it's Mahler! No Mahler collection should be without Bernstein in both the Sony and DG (better sound) versions. Skip his DVDs - too many errors and lousy sound. When it comes down to it, Bernstein was likely the greatest Mahler interpreter of them all. He possessed the maniacal drive of Solti, the gemutlichkeit of Walter, the architectural sense of Tennstedt, and the pacing that makes Bertini so enjoyable - he doesn't get bogged down like Klemperer, Maazel, and several others. His NYPO was good, great at times, but his DG remakes had better orchestras by far. 
 

post #1574 of 2177


Fascinating little rendition. Lacking the grandiose stage of most large name renditions it takes on a very intimate ambiance.

post #1575 of 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhaub View Post
 


Yes, but... the sound on those old Columbia recordings isn't what RCA gave Zinman - and if ever there was a composer where sound quality matters, it's Mahler! No Mahler collection should be without Bernstein in both the Sony and DG (better sound) versions. Skip his DVDs - too many errors and lousy sound. When it comes down to it, Bernstein was likely the greatest Mahler interpreter of them all. He possessed the maniacal drive of Solti, the gemutlichkeit of Walter, the architectural sense of Tennstedt, and the pacing that makes Bertini so enjoyable - he doesn't get bogged down like Klemperer, Maazel, and several others. His NYPO was good, great at times, but his DG remakes had better orchestras by far. 

 

His DG records are histrionic, which succeeds powerfully for a less restrained symphony such as no. 6 and fails lolerrificly [my coinage, sic] at more restrained works such as the Resurrection.

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