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Best classical recordings...ever! - Page 85

post #1261 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrasdesoria View Post
 

Shostakovich was the Beethoven of the XXth century. Lived through horrible age, in the midst of Stalinist terror and also saw the II. WW. His work reflected the horrors, terror and fear of his age. Sometimes he used double speech and referred not only the tremendous crimes committed by one revolutionary regime, but the other one also. This particular symphony is about the crimes committed by the Nazis against Jewish people. Today is the day of remembering on Holocaust, the day when the Auschwitz camp was liberated in 1945. Be here the magnificient work of Shostakovich for this occasion. 

 

While Shostakovich was indeed a major composer of the 20th century( whose music I enjoy BTW) 

I disagree about the "Shostakovich was the Beethoven of the XXth century" analogy.

 

Shostakovich's accomplishments, stature and influence simply do not measure up to Beethoven IMO.

post #1262 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post
 

While Shostakovich was indeed a major composer of the 20th century( whose music I enjoy BTW) 

I disagree about the "Shostakovich was the Beethoven of the XXth century" analogy.

 

Shostakovich's accomplishments, stature and influence simply do not measure up to Beethoven IMO.

 

"Of the XX century" is the key phrase. The author of the part of Genesis about Noah described him as "perfect in his generations," viz., the best of the worst.

post #1263 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

"Of the XX century" is the key phrase. The author of the part of Genesis about Noah described him as "perfect in his generations," viz., the best of the worst.

 

Sorry but I don't understand what your saying here.

 

I will however go further and say placing Beethoven and Shostakovich at the same level of cultural importance or visionary musicianship is absurd.

 

Still enjoy Shostakovich music though.

post #1264 of 8942

Maybe I was not enough clear. Of course, Shostajkovich is not as pathbreaking, monumental figure in the history of classical music as Beethoven. On the contrary, certain extent he is the last representativ of a dying tradition. But I meant that Shostakovich in his music protrayed, reflected the major questions of his age, like Beethoven and both hoped a better society, and both composed music also to convey this massege to their audience.  

post #1265 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post
 

Sorry but I don't understand what your saying here.

 

My apologies. I mean that just as Noah was called the best of a bad generation, Shostakovich might be considered the best of an (overall) bad period. I would say either him or late Bartok, but I seldom listen to anything later than Brahms anymore. It's too unsettling.


Edited by Claritas - 1/27/14 at 12:46pm
post #1266 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post
 

 

My apologies. I mean that just as Noah was called the best of a bad generation, Shostakovich might be considered the best of an (overall) bad period. I would say either him or late Bartok, but I seldom listen to anything later than Brahms anymore. It's too unsettling.

 

Ok I think I understand your position.

 

My personal view is different;

I consider the 20th century to be a fertile, productive and relevant period musically.

Yes, 20th century music can be unsettling and challenging but it can also be relevant and interesting to me(and many others).

 

In addition, I don't personally believe Shostakovich represents the "best' of his period.

This is only my opinion of course.

 

Other than Shostakovich writing in the same types of forms and for similar types of ensembles,I still can't find many parallels between Beethoven and Shostakovich.

post #1267 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrasdesoria View Post
 

Maybe I was not enough clear. Of course, Shostajkovich is not as pathbreaking, monumental figure in the history of classical music as Beethoven. On the contrary, certain extent he is the last representativ of a dying tradition. But I meant that Shostakovich in his music protrayed, reflected the major questions of his age, like Beethoven and both hoped a better society, and both composed music also to convey this massege to their audience.  

 

Ok.

 

I suppose that's a fair assessment :smile:.

post #1268 of 8942

Duke Elliington was the Beethoven of the 20th century

post #1269 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

Duke Elliington was the Beethoven of the 20th century

 

Ellington was awesome but no.

Different galaxy IMO.

 

I'm still not sure what "so-and-so is the Beethoven of the 20th century" means.

Therefore I could be wrong.

 

It amazes me the lack of understanding of Ellington's music in the so-called "serious music" community even today.

Ellington's music was possibly better understood by musicians(of all types) during his lifetime than Beethoven's was though...

post #1270 of 8942

In fact it could be argued that Ellington's influence was felt during his own lifetime much more than Beethoven during his.

 

 

 

EDIT: "during his own lifetime"


Edited by perhapss - 1/27/14 at 2:05pm
post #1271 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Duke Ellington was the Beethoven of the 20th century

Still wish I had a one-way time machine (or could reverse reincarnate).
post #1272 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post


Still wish I had a one-way time machine (or could reverse reincarnate).

 

To when?

Life wasn't exactly peaches and cream in Beethoven's time either...

post #1273 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claritas View Post

 

"Of the XX century" is the key phrase. The author of the part of Genesis about Noah described him as "perfect in his generations," viz., the best of the worst.

Sorry but I don't understand what your saying here.

I will however go further and say placing Beethoven and Shostakovich at the same level of cultural importance or visionary musicianship is absurd.

Still enjoy Shostakovich music though.
I don't know, I find Shostakovich's music to be more visionary than Beethoven's.
post #1274 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post


I don't know, I find Shostakovich's music to be more visionary than Beethoven's.

 

Obviously you're wrong :veryevil:.

 

Sorry, the effect of the influence of Beethoven's music on those composer's after him is easily observable historically.

Shostakovich?

 

We'll give it 150 years or so and then see...

post #1275 of 8942
Quote:
Originally Posted by perhapss View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by amigomatt View Post

I don't know, I find Shostakovich's music to be more visionary than Beethoven's.

Obviously you're wrong very_evil_smiley.gif .

Sorry, the effect of the influence of Beethoven's music on those composer's after him is easily observable historically.
Shostakovich?

We'll give it 150 years or so and then see...
I'm not denying Beethoven's influence on music after him, I'm talking about how I hear his music compared to Shostakovich's. When I say I feel that Shostakovich's music is more visionary, I don't necessarily mean it has greater foresight. I mean it sounds more visionary in its aesthetic. Shostakovich uses a broader palette than Beethoven did. His works are more varied and IMO more dramatic and vivid on the ears. Of course, being more modern, his harmonic language and instrumentation is more complex, yet he manages to maintain a distinctive and recognisable voice in the just the way Beethoven did.

Shostakovich's influence can be heard far and wide too, with much film music being directly derivative of his sound and techniques.

Shostakovich pictured the human condition of the time through his music in a way so visionary that few have come close to matching. Shostakovich's output is like a history lesson without words and the bleakness and horror portrayed in works like the 8th symphony have few comparisons with any other composer. I think you underestimate the importance of good old Dmitri!
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