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NRB Mod... Nut Rattlin Bass from an Ety?!? Yes, Yes, YES!!! [How To] NRB Mod... - Page 2

post #16 of 72

PLEASE READ THE EDIT.  THE EQ FOR THE GREY FILTER IS THE ETYMOTIC GREY FILTER.  THE ETYMOTICS DO COME WITH A 1500 OHM FILTER THAT IS GREEN THAT MATCHES THE GREEN FILTER KNOWLE'S USES.  HOWEVER, THE GREYS DIFFER GREATLY.  IF YOU GET GREY KNOWLE'S FILTERS, YOU'LL SEE A TREBLE SPIKE!!!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpartanD63 View Post

Nope. The other way. You increase resistance to get more bass.

I'm trying to see if I can create "Treble Monsters."*  tongue_smile.gif The grey filters (330) to my understanding, would do that.

 

*For no reason other than to see if I can...

 

EDIT: Alright, I'm done playing with the edit button...

EDIT #42: I lied.

 

Increase of resistance never increases anything.  It decreases something.  In order to create treble mosnters, you have to decrease the bass.  There is no Knowle's Filter that will do that.  That said, I want to know what the OP is using on the MCs to generate "bass monsters".  

 

That said, if you want to "test the filters" (grey and green), you can actually use some handy EQs.  These are rough EQs to give you a general idea of what something will sound like.  In order for these EQs to work, you must ensure your Etymotic has no filters in them (HF5s, for example, come with green filters).  The EQs can be defined as follows:

  • f(EQ) = f(filter) - f(black)

For example, to get the EQ for the green filter, you would look at the green filter and subtract it from the black (no filter) to get your EQ.  It is a damper, so your answer will be negative (it will reduct the volume of something).  To get the grey filter, you'd do the grey filter line and subtract it from the black (no filter) to get your EQ.

 

So the EQs are below (as I calculated them).  They are rough estimates good within 1 dB:

 

Green filter:

1 kHz = 0 dB (first anchor)

2.3 kHz = -3 dB

3.1 kHz = 0 dB (another anchor)

5 kHz = -5.3 dB

8 kHz = 0 dB (another anchor)

10-11 kHz = -2 dB

12 kHz = 0 dB (final anchor)

 

Grey filter:

1 kHz = 0 dB (first anchor)

2.3 kHz = -9 dB

3.1 kHz = -2 dB

5 kHz = 13 dB

8 kHz = -2 dB

9 kHz = 0 dB (anchor)

10 -11 kHz = -2 dB

12 kHz = 0 dB (final anchor)

 

First and final anchors are used to segregate out the are that will be damped.  Then the added anchors are where there is no change between no filter and filter.  Additionally, I have included and EQ for the HF5 (with green filters install) if you put in the grey filter.  Since the MCs come with green filters as well, this will also be the conversion to the greys for the MCs as well:

 

1 kHz = 0 dB (first anchor)

2.3 kHz = -6 dB

3.1 kHz = -1.5 dB

5 kHz = -7 dB

8 kHz = 0 dB (anchor)

10-11 kHz = -2 dB

12 kHz = 0 dB (final anchor)

 

This last one will only work if you are using an Etymotic with its original green filters!!!  It is not recommended that you use any IEM without it's filters for an extended amount of time as it allows debris to get into the driver chamber.  

 

That said, I have tested the EQ with the HF2s I have.  The result is a much warmer sound with veiling bass.  They aren't bass monsters, the quantity being around the same amount the between the Westone W4 and UE900s (so around a perceived 5-6 dB bump as opposed to a 2 dB bump that you normally get).  Sub-bass presence becomes a little better.  However, you end up with a muffled sound similar to the Phonak green filters have on the single driver PFEs.  Details are lost in a major format.  The end result is like my transition from the ASG-1 1.0/1.1 to ASG-1 1.2.  A big increase in bass (which is more preferred) with a loss in the higher mids and highs.  This damage isn't as much, but you lose detailing to an extreme level.  I don't recommend going with the grey filters.  

 

****IMPORTANT EDIT****

 

This EQ was made comparing Etymotic grey filters to Etymotic green filters (the greens are the same though for Knowles and Etymotic).  The greys don't look that way.  I'll make the EQs for the other dampers soon :)


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/9/12 at 9:10am
post #17 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by eshiku View Post

Complete noob here :) I ordered my Etymotic Research HF3 yesterday so i should be here next week.

 

I assume these will work for hf3 also? If i want more bass from it then i should get the 1500 (green)? and for Treble i should go for the lower one?

 

So the higher it is the more bass it gives? And how do i do the mod? Thanks :)

 

sorry for the noobish questions

 

HF3s come with greens.  Read my post above for information about that XD

post #18 of 72

if that works like with the audeo filters, you will increase bass for the cost of resolution.

post #19 of 72

Ah! Alright! I guess my noobish mind got ahead of itself. redface.gif

post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofastreamer View Post

if that works like with the audeo filters, you will increase bass for the cost of resolution.

 

Audeo filters don't increase the bass.  They decrease the mids and highs...  

 

EDIT:

 

Then you increase the volume to get the increase.  The dampers themselves can't increase anything though.  If anyone does want to make treble monsters, you can use a damper that has less than 1500 ohm resistence.  The grey Knowle's for example.  


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/8/12 at 11:04pm
post #21 of 72

OK, I'm using this graph now.  The EQs I'm making will be f(filter) - f(green).  That said, keep your green filter in your Etymotic if you want it to work XD  I'm going on the assumption that everyone wants to tame the Etymotic treble, so that's what we're going with XD  So red, orange, and yellow filter EQs will be given.  If you want the other ones, please let me know which ones.  

 

 

RED:

  • 800 Hz: 0 dB;
  • 1.6 kHz: -0.5 dB;
  • 2.3 kHz: -3dB;
  • 3.1 kHz: -0.5 dB;
  • 5 kHz: -3 dB;
  • 7.9 kHz: 0 dB;
  • 9 kHz: 0 dB;
  • 10 kHz: -1 dB;
  • 13 kHz: 0 dB;

ORG:

  • 800 Hz: 0 dB;
  • 1.6 kHz: -4 dB;
  • 2.3 kHz: -6 dB;
  • 3.1 kHz: -3 dB;
  • 5 kHz: -6 dB;
  • 7.9 kHz: -1 dB;
  • 9 kHz: 0 dB;
  • 10 kHz: -2 dB;
  • 13 kHz: 0 dB;

YLW:

  • 800 Hz: 0 dB;
  • 1.6 kHz: -6 dB;
  • 2.3 kHz: -8 dB;
  • 3.1 kHz: -4 dB;
  • 5 kHz: -10 dB;
  • 7.9 kHz: -3 dB;
  • 9 kHz: -1 dB;
  • 10 kHz: -3 dB;
  • 13 kHz: 0 dB;

 

The yellow filter looks the closest to the Etymotic grey filter.  I would avoid those.  If given the choice, go red or orange depending on how much you want to damp the treble.  Try the EQs for yourself and see which one comes closest to suiting your needs.  Then purchase the right filters in bulk ;)

 

I still stand by my statement that they won't turn your Etymotic into what Head-Fi would consider a "bass monster" (unless you consider the W4 a bass monster).  The bass signature would be similar to the ASG-1 (1.2 rev) but in lesser quantity (I don't consider them bass monsters, but do see them as bass-head quality now).  They won't turn your Etymotics into Westone W3s, TF10s, or Heir Audio 3.Ai's though.  So don't expect miracles.  Also, I don't think the name of the mod is appropriate as it doesn't create "nut rattling bass".  The Heir Audio 3.Ai is nut rattling bass (the thing literally gave me goose bumps in my first hours use; they actually still do a bit).  

 

EDIT:

 

Impressions using the EQs:

  • Red: Slight loss of higher midrange microdetailing with a small loss of sweetness (not all is lost).  The Slightly better presence in bass (larger body).  No physical increase in quantity.  
  • Orange: Muffled sound starts up.  It's not horrible, but is a loss of EQ.  Everything takes a slight low-shift in sound.  Details lost further vocals deepend (sweetness is lost almost completely).  
  • Yellow: Further muffling of the sound.  This time, I don't recommend going this far.  Sounds a little veiling at this point.  The bass presence is larger, but the bump isn't as great as one would make it out to be.  Vocals lose out on sweetness completely and turn into completely lush vocals (but do have decent timbre to them).  Details in the upper-mids are lost.  

 

That said, what the dampers seem to do is adjust the higher-mids and low-highs to boost bass body (no other part of the bass is adjusted, in order to do that, part of the bass would have to be damped; which it isn't).  This doesn't improve quality, actually, in many ways, bass quality goes down as you go to the orage and yellow filters.  I wouldn't suggest anything further than this as you begin sacrificing the mids and highs way too much.  The red vs green won't produce the changes that will do too much where users won't miss the details they are missing.  They aren't monsters though, the perceived bass is still somewhere around 4-5 dB (up from 2) in the mid-bass.  Sub-bass is boosted by 1 dB (this is a perceived change; not an actual).  Bass is actually not even touched with the dampers, the highs and mids are.  


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/9/12 at 9:12am
post #22 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

 

Also, I don't think the name of the mod is appropriate as it doesn't create "nut rattling bass".

Great opinion piece Tiny... I think it needs more than an EQ to truly experience it though.

 

Secondly, I have Edited the first post with a disclaimer too.

 

Cheers, Jim

post #23 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTurf View Post

Great opinion piece Tiny... I think it needs more than an EQ to truly experience it though.

 

Secondly, I have Edited the first post with a disclaimer too.

 

Cheers, Jim

 

Explain that statement.  All a damper does is absorb sound (reduces it's loudness).  That effect can be recreated by essentially EQing that certain frequency out.  So please do explain yourself in an objective manner.  

post #24 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

Explain that statement.  All a damper does is absorb sound (reduces it's loudness).  That effect can be recreated by essentially EQing that certain frequency out.  So please do explain yourself in an objective manner.  

If all that was needed was to EQ an IEM to obtain a certain sound... What need would there be for so many?

Hence the Damper Effect can be measured, but I would contend that it would be very difficult to duplicate with a standard portable player/source equalizer.

So why go there? Even better yet, you have a set of Etymotic MC5s correct?

PM Me your addy, and I will send you a set of green filters. I would like to hear your first hand experience.

You may not believe this but, I do appreciate your opinion.

Jim
post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTurf View Post


If all that was needed was to EQ an IEM to obtain a certain sound... What need would there be for so many?
Hence the Damper Effect can be measured, but I would contend that it would be very difficult to duplicate with a standard portable player/source equalizer.
So why go there? Even better yet, you have a set of Etymotic MC5s correct?
PM Me your addy, and I will send you a set of green filters. I would like to hear your first hand experience.
You may not believe this but, I do appreciate your opinion.
Jim

 

This isn't objective.  EQ is digital manipulation while the damper is a physical one.  That's why there is so many.  You can reproduce many effects of dampers with an EQ (to get a feel for end effect).  I don't have the MC5, I have the HF5 which have green filters installed (by default actually).  

 

I need to know something the EQ can't reproduce (objectively show it with some sort of evidence) that the damper can.  I did state that the EQs were approximates, good within +/-(1-2) dB for each given FR range.  The error is smaller for smaller changes.  That said, I do want to know objectively speaking why the EQ won't produce a similar (if not the same) effect.  You're basically avoiding my question.  

 

There are also many reasons why people don't like using EQ.  I stated the first one above is that EQ tends to be digital manipulation vs physical.  The second is that not all devices have a good EQ.  That is why I suggest using a parametric one (actually, you have to use a parametric one).  These tend to use a lot more power and guzzle battery if you're on the go.  This is one of the reasons I don't use EQu (app) on my iPod.  The other reason is that I don't like to mess with something an engineer has created (not arguing that one again).  


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/9/12 at 10:13am
post #26 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

This isn't objective.  EQ is digital manipulation while the damper is a physical one.  That's why there is so many.  You can reproduce many effects of dampers with an EQ (to get a feel for end effect).  I don't have the MC5, I have the HF5 which have green filters installed (by default actually).  

Yeah... I am not the smartest guy around, so I will have to trust your EQ and you can trust my experience.

Hmmm, HF5s. OK, I would recommend the orange dampers for you. Sorry I don't have an extra set of those.

Jim
post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTurf View Post


Yeah... I am not the smartest guy around, so I will have to trust your EQ and you can trust my experience.
Hmmm, HF5s. OK, I would recommend the orange dampers for you. Sorry I don't have an extra set of those.
Jim

 

My preference would lean towards red based on the EQs I used.  The reason being that the orange sacrifices too much of the vocals for me as well as detailing in general.  The reds still do result in a loss of micro-detailing; something the Etys are known for.  

post #28 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

My preference would lean towards red based on the EQs I used.  The reason being that the orange sacrifices too much of the vocals for me as well as detailing in general.  The reds still do result in a loss of micro-detailing; something the Etys are known for.  

Fair Enough...

I have by the way figured out a way to remove the metal dampers without damaging them.

I'll post up my findings this evening. That way you could try a couple of different resistance levels.

Once again, I am really looking forward to your ears on review of this mod.

I know I have really been enjoying it.

Jim
post #29 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTurf View Post


Fair Enough...
I have by the way figured out a way to remove the metal dampers without damaging them.
I'll post up my findings this evening. That way you could try a couple of different resistance levels.
Once again, I am really looking forward to your ears on review of this mod.
I know I have really been enjoying it.
Jim

 

How much is shipping on these dampers?  If it's low enough, I'll buy some.  Otherwise, I'll pass for now.  

 

The dampers should be able to be removed using something like the Phonak filter removal tool as filters on the site you gave give the spec of 41mm (4.1 cm) which is approximately the size of the Phonak filters).  

 

EDIT: Dang, that shipping is expensive...  7 bucks to buy 9 XD  it's about a third of my order XD  I'll wait until I get some spending money :)


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/9/12 at 11:36am
post #30 of 72
Thread Starter 

Note to all...

 

Filter part numbers and resistances added to the first post.

 

Enjoy, Jim

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