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Why Power Cords are Important - Page 2  

post #16 of 32

Of course power cords are important ... if you don't use them you won't hear anything.

 

As far as a $1,150 power cord improving the [insert buzzword], [insert buzzword] and [insert buzzword] sound quality ... enjoy your $1,150 power cord.

 

 

 

Quote: Mark Twain
"Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising."
 
post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daisangen View Post

You do realize the site that explains benefits of premium power cables are selling them, right?

Yeah, but they sound like they know what they are talking about. After all, it is the cable engineers who provide technical information such as shown in the links.  If the higher end cables make absolutely no difference these cable companies would not exist, or at least drop the cable side of the market altogether.  They make these cables because they make difference in sound.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Not really.

 

Even less so, by several orders of magnitude!

 

 

 

- "It is by no means a measured quantitative finding"

 

- "In reality we are dealing with different fine shades of distortion, which are truly beyond measurable quantities, but for the sake of simplicity, we present you with a drawing of frequency response so you could get a feel for what it is we mean."

So what is it: distortion or frequency response? I guess it doesn't matter since either difference seems to be imagined only.

 

- Claims, claims and more claims.. and nothing to back them up other than some anecdotes.

 

=> You're better off spending money on an amp with a proper power supply or even a power conditioner (not the firewall, it's way too expensive) instead of these cables.

 

Btw, LessLoss also sells the "Blackbody ambient field conditioner" (lol) so I'd be careful with or just avoid their other products. wink.gif

 

I forgot about the "power conditioner" which is very important, too.  So, power conditoner, power cord, and audio cables are all important.

 

 

Don't skimp on power cables and audio cables... they are part of the critical audio system components.

post #18 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

 

 

Quote:
But it's not just that. Have you seen both the kind of details they use to describe each cables' sound but on the other hand just babble countless audiophile meaningless terms/expressions. I've never seen something like that in a proper blind test. These guys must have golden ears, or more likely golden wallets.

It's probably your ears.  As said before, many people suffer from hearing.  Many of them don't notice they have hearing problems because they've got used to their own ears.  Your listening level / capability could be at 70% while others are at near 100%?  I'm just throwing off numbers.

 

 

Quote:
Actually I couldn't care less for what they did or didn't. Talking to expensive cable buyers is like arguing with fundamentalists, there's just no point. Go ahead and spend all your money on cables, please do!

I am truly happy with the result on my solid silver audio cable and purple copper cable. They clearly have very distinct sound. the difference is so massive I don't know how to better describe.   Now the power cords will throw in extra oomp in respect to sound.  Cable skin effect exists everywhere.  Electrical noise has impact on sound and video.

 

 

 

Quote:
People don't have to try it for themselves if they can rely on the results of repeatable tests. But if you do try it make sure you get your money back if you don't like what you bought. And be sure to eliminate biases (see above) when doing the comparison, otherwise you might just be deceiving yourself.

Some things can't be measured. You will have to use your ears to audit.  I have bunny ears. Just because one equipment sounds better doesn't mean everybody will notice it and how much it is different.  But just because you can't hear the difference and telling everyone else that the cables and power cords are only for marketing then you are spreading wrong information..

 

 

post #19 of 32
Thread Starter 

And no, you don't have to spend $1150 on a power cable. The level of performance varies depending on the cable. Generally, the better the cable the most cost there is to it. 

 

I think I'm going to start my project with the power conditioner though.  Get me something descent for my widescreen TV and my audio system.

 

I will also get the descent quality power cords. Expecting to spend upto $100  on the power cords.  $50 on the power conditioner + surge protection.

 

I really can't afford a $1150 power cable.... I will go bankrupt. :(

post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

Yeah, but they sound like they know what they are talking about. After all, it is the cable engineers who provide technical information such as shown in the links.  If the higher end cables make absolutely no difference these cable companies would not exist, or at least drop the cable side of the market altogether.  They make these cables because they make difference in sound.

No, they only sound like they know what they are talking about if you don't know what they are talking about. What you see there is not technical information, it's techno-babble/marketing. Also, it doesn't matter whether the cables they sell make a real difference or not. Yeah, you read right. It doesn't matter at all. They can still have a "healthy" business. Why's that you might ask? Read on..

 

 

I guess you have not seen documentations like "Enemies of Reason" by Dawkins. Most homoepathic remedies are basically water. But they work due to the placebo effect. From Wikipedia: "products with such relatively lower dilutions continue to be sold, but like their counterparts, they have not been conclusively demonstrated to have any effect beyond that of a placebo." So people buy expensive water, use it and feel better afterwards = Placebo.

Homeopathy is a multi-billion dollar industry. So much for "if their products made no difference these companies would not exist".

 

 

Quote:

I forgot about the "power conditioner" which is very important, too.  So, power conditoner, power cord, and audio cables are all important.

They are only important in the sense that a system doesn't work without them, except for the conditioner.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post
It's probably your ears.  As said before, many people suffer from hearing.  Many of them don't notice they have hearing problems because they've got used to their own ears.  Your listening level / capability could be at 70% while others are at near 100%?  I'm just throwing off numbers.

No, it's probably your brain that deceives you. I'm not going to defend my hearing here because the point you make is just ridiculous. Open your eyes, there have been properly done tests and measurements the show the opposite of what you believe.

 

 

Quote:
I am truly happy with the result on my solid silver audio cable and purple copper cable. They clearly have very distinct sound. the difference is so massive I don't know how to better describe.   Now the power cords will throw in extra oomp in respect to sound.  Cable skin effect exists everywhere.  Electrical noise has impact on sound and video.

Silver vs. copper has been debunked a long time ago. But you're not going to want to hear any of this so I stop here.

 

 

Quote:
Some things can't be measured. You will have to use your ears to audit.  I have bunny ears. Just because one equipment sounds better doesn't mean everybody will notice it and how much it is different.  But just because you can't hear the difference and telling everyone else that the cables and power cords are only for marketing then you are spreading wrong information..

My comment was about repeatable listening tests and you switch to measurements.. Yes, we can measure what's going into the cable and coming out of it. Yes, we can do null difference testing. No, you don't have to use your eyes to hear the "massive differences" (*facepalm*).

 

You are right, if one piece of equipment sounds better it doesn't mean that everybody will notice it. But if we do proper tests and measurements and conclude that the differences are imagined, we can say pretty much for a fact that there are no real differences.

 

Let me end this with a quote of liamstrain: "But whatever, it's your money. I prefer to spend it on things that actually can affect the sound quality."


Edited by xnor - 9/10/12 at 9:51am
post #21 of 32

I just arranged for my local power company to lay a 100 per cent silver transmission line from the sub station to my house.  Now if I could just get Hoover dam to install a silver line to the sub station.  And those darn turbines, hummm.

post #22 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

And no, you don't have to spend $1150 on a power cable. The level of performance varies depending on the cable. Generally, the better the cable the most cost there is to it.

Wrong again. The review linked by Lenni shows that two mid-priced cables got the highest possible rating while the more expensive ones all scored worse. Granted, there's not much difference between 150 and 233 GBP, but still, there's no clear correlation between price and quality.

 

I know that using the review which I said I think is flawed isn't the smartest move, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't listen if I just told you that price doesn't correlate with quality.

 

Quote:
I think I'm going to start my project with the power conditioner though.  Get me something descent for my widescreen TV and my audio system.

 

I will also get the descent quality power cords. Expecting to spend upto $100  on the power cords.  $50 on the power conditioner + surge protection.

 

I really can't afford a $1150 power cable.... I will go bankrupt. :(

*thumbs up* on the increasing saneness. :D

post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

 

Quote:
Wrong again. The review linked by Lenni shows that two mid-priced cables got the highest possible rating while the more expensive ones all scored worse. Granted, there's not much difference between 150 and 233 GBP, but still, there's no clear correlation between price and quality.

I was talking about different grades of cables from the same manufacturer.. not mixing different brands...

 

 

 

 

Quote:

I know that using the review which I said I think is flawed isn't the smartest move, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't listen if I just told you that price doesn't correlate with quality.

 

*thumbs up* on the increasing saneness. :D

I can't prove on the power cords yet as I haven't bought them yet.  If and when I get them mid / high end power cords I will do critical listening on them and the generic power cords with power conditioner attached on both setup.

post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

 

I was talking about different grades of cables from the same manufacturer.. not mixing different brands...

Okay, but still. You could be buying an expensive "high-end" cable from manufacturer A and it could be worse than a (much?) cheaper "high-end"cable from manufacturer B. That is if you can tell them apart at all, in a proper test, which I have my doubts about.

 

 

Quote:

I can't prove on the power cords yet as I haven't bought them yet.  If and when I get them mid / high end power cords I will do critical listening on them and the generic power cords with power conditioner attached on both setup.

Even if you had those cords and think they improve sound and told everyone doesn't prove anything.

post #25 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

Yeah, but they sound like they know what they are talking about. After all, it is the cable engineers who provide technical information such as shown in the links.  If the higher end cables make absolutely no difference these cable companies would not exist, or at least drop the cable side of the market altogether.  They make these cables because they make difference in sound.

 

 

 

Have you read their information? They are making the claim that most audiophile power cables do not work only theirs will work. Their technology is based on a high tech pigmentation (paint?).

They also have a page on their cable designer. Just try to find out what technical achievement has he obtained? What technical degree does he have? At least, he got a very nice smile.

Based on their website info, you should save your $100 and wait until you can afford their cable. Because only theirs will work.

 

One other question you should also ask is. If measurement is not used, on what basis do these people grade their cable? Do they have a guy that sit around and go; "Hmm, this is grade A I will charge $1,150, and this is barely grade B we'll take only $500 for this?" And what exactly are the difference between grades? More bass? Nah, that can be measured. Less noise? Hmm, that can be measured too.

 

Curious mind want to know. BTW, Furutech has a cable demagnetizer that you might want to try instead. As a bonus, this device will also demag your CD and LP too. And it's a bargain at $1,800.

 

http://www.soundstage.com/vinyl/vinyl200702.htm

post #26 of 32

Goodolcheez!!! EDUCATE YOURSELF!!!

 

Marketing over-expensive cables and assisting scam artists in ripping off the masses is silly. They prey on people's ignorance and lack of technical understanding and try to convince them that they need crap they don't need. Just do some research and understand how it's just some people's means to get rich quick (despite their claims, those multi-thousand dollar cables probably cost around $10 to make,  if that).

post #27 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post

So you do not object to the word "placebo", you only object if it is used against your belief. Maybe you should contact the Lessloss cable guys, it is their claim that shielded cable does not work as they claimed only the their pigmented cable will work. I do not deal with what people can hear or cannot hear because I can't get in their heads. I can only deal with verifiable facts. There is no proof that pigment can filter high frequency nor is that any basis that high frequency noise is not getting filtered out by any competent power supply design. Nor can I prove that you are not hearing what you're think you're hearing. I can only point out the obvious misinformation or non-information.

 

FYI, I do owned after market cable because it was thrown in as a package and I do have friends that own them. Heck, even my brother owns them. I do not own any exotic digital cable or power cable because I want certifiable performance at a reasonable cost and I used to specify cable for a living. I am not paying $1,150 to disprove their claim. Please post your listening impression after you receive your cable.

 

fair enough.

 

unfortunately, I don't have that kind of disposable income to spend on a power cord, and even if I did, I likely wouldn't - certainly not on Lossless products - just to be clear. so, no impressions...

post #28 of 32

I just remembered that I've got a cable experience to share.

 

It was between a stock LCD-2 cable and a donated LCD-2 Q cable.

 

COULD NOT HEAR A SINGLE DIFFERENCE!!

 

However, ergonomics and aesthetics were much improved. Don't know if that justifies the cost of a few hundred dollars but it's certainly not as bad as other cable manufacturers who sells cables for a few thousand.

post #29 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

And no, you don't have to spend $1150 on a power cable. The level of performance varies depending on the cable. Generally, the better the cable the most cost there is to it. 

 

I think I'm going to start my project with the power conditioner though.  Get me something descent for my widescreen TV and my audio system.

 

I will also get the descent quality power cords. Expecting to spend upto $100  on the power cords.  $50 on the power conditioner + surge protection.

 

I really can't afford a $1150 power cable.... I will go bankrupt. :(

Can you explain why I hear no difference between my $3 Monoprice power cables and the $100 PS Audio/ Pangea cables that I foolishly tried (I have what is considered high-end gear)?

Can you explain why you think that the last 3'-4' of power cable going from your wall to your component makes a difference compared to the hundreds of feet of power cable behind the wall? How can this not make complete sense to you (or anyone)?

post #30 of 32

If you really want to try out an aftermarket power cord, try a Quail.

 

I think a cord that is designed to properly operate LIFE-SAVING equipment might be more substantial than a cord dressed up in fancy sheaths with expensive looking connectors and a ridiculous mark-up.

 

Hi-fi companies know that 'audiophiles' have a reputation for gullibility and will exploit it any chance they get ... that's how they stay in business.

 

The funny/sad thing about sites like this is that I'm sure that he's made some decent money off his 'products'.  

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