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Why Power Cords are Important  

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 

Not only are the audio interconnects super important but also the power cables are super duper important.    I came across a web source that I think you guys and girls will find fruitful.  It has a lot of interesting information.  Be sure to read the WHOLE page on the first link.

 

High-end power cord:

 

http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-signature-p-199.html

 

 

Scroll half way down and start reading on "Length Vs Sound" and down. It also covers power cord burn-in:

 

http://www.lessloss.com/page.html?id=86

 

 

 

 

As much as I would like to buy me a $1200 power cord (I have $1400 cables) I think I'll go bankrupt. I will have to settle for a little bit cheaper one that costs several hundred dollars....   Only if I don't own a house and a nice car I can easily afford these top notch stuff. :(


Edited by goodolcheez - 9/7/12 at 11:36am
post #2 of 32
Thread Starter 

Here is another good info about cable management:

 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/buying-guides/do-expensive-home-audiovideo-cables-matter/

 

Read towards the bottom where it mentions about cabling.
 

post #3 of 32

You do realize the site that explains benefits of premium power cables are selling them, right?

post #4 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodolcheez View Post

Not only are the audio interconnects super important

Not really.

 

Quote:
but also the power cables are super duper important

Even less so, by several orders of magnitude!

 

 

Quote:
I came across a web source that I think you guys and girls will find fruitful.  It has a lot of interesting information.  Be sure to read the WHOLE page on the first link.

 

- "It is by no means a measured quantitative finding"

 

- "In reality we are dealing with different fine shades of distortion, which are truly beyond measurable quantities, but for the sake of simplicity, we present you with a drawing of frequency response so you could get a feel for what it is we mean."

So what is it: distortion or frequency response? I guess it doesn't matter since either difference seems to be imagined only.

 

- Claims, claims and more claims.. and nothing to back them up other than some anecdotes.

 

=> You're better off spending money on an amp with a proper power supply or even a power conditioner (not the firewall, it's way too expensive) instead of these cables.

 

Btw, LessLoss also sells the "Blackbody ambient field conditioner" (lol) so I'd be careful with or just avoid their other products. wink.gif


Edited by xnor - 9/8/12 at 2:23pm
post #5 of 32

This is one of the worst pseudo science marketing paper that I have seen. According to this web site, all the power cables that you are using with shield does NOT work. The audio improvement you're hearing must be placebo.

 

Quote:

"Shielding the cable, as is the widespread and traditionally accepted practice, does not achieve the audible results we aim for, regardless of the number of shields employed. This, even if the cable is run through thick pipe."

post #6 of 32

A lot of expensive power cords from what I hear are not approved according to some electrical safety standards and provided you even do hear a difference, it is hazardous to use them on your equipment in the first place.In the case you real do hear a reproducible and highly audible differences in your chords, I suggest you send your equipment in for repair or change it.

post #7 of 32

Mods, could you include the word Placebo in the "(DBT-Free Forum)" title, please. (DBT and Placebo-Free Forum). thank you rolleyes.gif

post #8 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by xnor View Post

Not really.

 

yes, really.

 

depending on the cables and the system they're used in, cables can be as important as any other component. 

 

HI-FIChoice do regularly various tests. in the September issue they tested a bunch of cables. I cannot post the entire test, as it's probably copyrighted material, but I cut the beginning and end results ( I hope it's within the rules). if anyone interested in the whole article, buy the magazine, or pm me.

 

 

Intro

Panel

Summary test_#1 (last page)

Summary test_#2

post #9 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

Mods, could you include the word Placebo in the "(DBT-Free Forum)" title, please. (DBT and Placebo-Free Forum). thank you rolleyes.gif

Then lets call it imagined differences due to cognitive biases. This shouldn't surprise you if you take a look at the price of these power cords.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

yes, really.

 

depending on the cables and the system they're used in, cables can be as important as any other component. 

 

HI-FIChoice do regularly various tests. in the September issue they tested a bunch of cables.

No they clearly are not as important as any other component and certainly not, as the OP posted, super (duper) important. Even the test you linked says that "they have a more subtle effect". They also compare them to tone controls, WTF? If I want to color sound I use an EQ.

 

Also, two 195 GBP cables got the highest sound rating. The OP linked to a $1149 power cord! Imho that's pure madness.

 

Btw, you are not allowed to discuss blind listening tests in this forum. :D (I don't think that hifi choice test was a proper blind test though..)


Edited by xnor - 9/9/12 at 11:01am
post #10 of 32

If it were a Placebo-free forum, there wouldn't be a single thread in here (besides speakers) ;) 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

Mods, could you include the word Placebo in the "(DBT-Free Forum)" title, please. (DBT and Placebo-Free Forum). thank you rolleyes.gif

post #11 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

Mods, could you include the word Placebo in the "(DBT-Free Forum)" title, please. (DBT and Placebo-Free Forum). thank you rolleyes.gif

Are you objecting to the word? 

post #12 of 32
Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor View Post

...

 

(I don't think that hifi choice test was a proper blind test though..)

 

may I ask why you think so? I doesn't say in the article how the tests were conducted. yet, you've already concluded it wasn't proper. maybe, if you're such an expert in these kind of tests, you should contact the editor and let him know.

 

I wonder if you've actually tried better cables. if not, should you really be making comments on the matter? personally, I don't mind if you do. my point is: should someone without trying the object is question - with what sometimes seems an utmost conviction - really commenting on it? I think not.

 

nevertheless, I don't dispute that people should be careful. some people are in it just for the money, but not everybody is in it, just for the money. and hype can get to people, especially new comers. it's not easy for everybody; one can somewhat rely on comments and advice from other users, but ultimately one has to try it for themselves in their system. that's why some company lend you a bunch of cables. unfortunately,  that's not always possible.

post #13 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post

Are you objecting to the word? 

 

only when used generally to describe the possible sound differences heard between audio components, including cables. and in particular from people who actually never tried any cable.

 

it seems to me, placebo, is the answer to what science cannot explain. since they yet don't understand how that could be, they look for the next feasible explanation. in this case placebo fits in. it a bit like people who believe in heaven, they know there isn't, but they still choose to believe in it because it makes them feel better. see, I know what placebo is...atsmile.gif

post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

may I ask why you think so? I doesn't say in the article how the tests were conducted.

Exactly. Not a single piece of information on how the test was conducted.

 

Quote:
yet, you've already concluded it wasn't proper.

No I just said I think it wasn't a proper blind test - until proven otherwise. Why wouldn't they at least explain in one paragraph how the test setup looked like? Maybe they cannot afford the space since they have more important page-sized cable ads in there.

 

But it's not just that. Have you seen both the kind of details they use to describe each cables' sound but on the other hand just babble countless audiophile meaningless terms/expressions. I've never seen something like that in a proper blind test. These guys must have golden ears, or more likely golden wallets.

 

Quote:
maybe, if you're such an expert in these kind of tests, you should contact the editor and let him know.

Actually I couldn't care less for what they did or didn't. Talking to expensive cable buyers is like arguing with fundamentalists, there's just no point. Go ahead and spend all your money on cables, please do!

 

edit: And this proves my point:

Quote:
it seems to me, placebo, is the answer to what science cannot explain. since they yet don't understand how that could be, they look for the next feasible explanation. in this case placebo fits in. it a bit like people who believe in heaven, they know there isn't, but they still choose to believe in it because it makes them feel better. see, I know what placebo is...atsmile.gif

 

 

Quote:
I wonder if you've actually tried better cables. if not, should you really be making comments on the matter? personally, I don't mind if you do. my point is: should someone without trying the object is question - with what sometimes seems an utmost conviction - really commenting on it? I think not.

Yes I've participated in tests and the results, as posted above, looked quite a bit different. There's also loads of measurements that show the teeny-weeny differences. Again, you're better off with a headphone/speaker, amp, dac upgrade or even a power conditioner.

 

Quote:

nevertheless, I don't dispute that people should be careful. some people are in it just for the money, but not everybody is in it, just for the money. and hype can get to people, especially new comers. it's not easy for everybody; one can somewhat rely on comments and advice from other users, but ultimately one has to try it for themselves in their system. that's why some company lend you a bunch of cables. unfortunately,  that's not always possible.

People don't have to try it for themselves if they can rely on the results of repeatable tests. But if you do try it make sure you get your money back if you don't like what you bought. And be sure to eliminate biases (see above) when doing the comparison, otherwise you might just be deceiving yourself.


Edited by xnor - 9/9/12 at 2:34pm
post #15 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenni View Post

 

only when used generally to describe the possible sound differences heard between audio components, including cables. and in particular from people who actually never tried any cable.

 

it seems to me, placebo, is the answer to what science cannot explain. since they yet don't understand how that could be, they look for the next feasible explanation. in this case placebo fits in. it a bit like people who believe in heaven, they know there isn't, but they still choose to believe in it because it makes them feel better. see, I know what placebo is...atsmile.gif

So you do not object to the word "placebo", you only object if it is used against your belief. Maybe you should contact the Lessloss cable guys, it is their claim that shielded cable does not work as they claimed only the their pigmented cable will work. I do not deal with what people can hear or cannot hear because I can't get in their heads. I can only deal with verifiable facts. There is no proof that pigment can filter high frequency nor is that any basis that high frequency noise is not getting filtered out by any competent power supply design. Nor can I prove that you are not hearing what you're think you're hearing. I can only point out the obvious misinformation or non-information.

 

FYI, I do owned after market cable because it was thrown in as a package and I do have friends that own them. Heck, even my brother owns them. I do not own any exotic digital cable or power cable because I want certifiable performance at a reasonable cost and I used to specify cable for a living. I am not paying $1,150 to disprove their claim. Please post your listening impression after you receive your cable.

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