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post #556 of 1968

Quote: @Clemmaster:

 

argh! I'd have loved a comparison between M7 and SA-2 :-(
I suppose you like the M7 more than the DP-1?

------X-------

 

I do like the M7 better but I would also kept the Eximus DP1, had my better half not forced me to reduce my inventory before going for new. I found the M7 to be better in tone and timbre and with  a bigger soundstage. Ofcourse the M7 is also more true to the source - like this one song in my native language which has been recorded very poorly and the female voice has a lot of sibilance; well, the Eximus actually made the it easier to listen to the song by cutting down on some of the sibilance while the M7 presents it fully.


Edited by aneep - 7/27/13 at 3:27am
post #557 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull View Post

I agree R7.1 tonality is a tint warm. For me the bass quantity and quality of R7.1 is ideal, I may not like any less bass.
I wish I can audience M7 first before deciding to change (as 7.1 is close to ideal for me now).
I've heard Invicta. Anyone have heard Invicta can give comparison with M7, so I can relate better. Actually imagine the sound signature of M7 is more like Invicta now?

 

I didn't here them side-by-side, but the Invicta I would describe as "nothing but the facts ma'am" -- what some would call cold and clinical, if very detailed. The M7 is more lively-sounding but without losing musicality.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aneep View Post

Quote: @Clemmaster:

 

argh! I'd have loved a comparison between M7 and SA-2 :-(
I suppose you like the M7 more than the DP-1?

------X-------

 

I do like the M7 better but I would also kept the Eximus DP1, had my better half not forced me to reduce my inventory before going for new. I found the M7 to be better in tone and timbre and with  a bigger soundstage. Ofcourse the M7 is also more true to the source - like this one song in my native language which has been recorded very poorly and the female voice has a lot of sibilance; well, the Eximus actually made the it easier to listen to the song by cutting down on some of the sibilance while the M7 presents it fully.

 

That's a good description what I I felt about the DP1. It sounds great -- very entertaining, but it is more like an NFB-10 would sound if it used an Analog Devices DAC -- more engaging compared to the TOTL Audio-gd DAC's "effortless" presentation.

post #558 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneep View Post

Quote: @Clemmaster:

argh! I'd have loved a comparison between M7 and SA-2 :-(

I suppose you like the M7 more than the DP-1?

X

I do like the M7 better but I would also kept the Eximus DP1, had my better half not forced me to reduce my inventory before going for new. I found the M7 to be better in tone and timbre and with  a bigger soundstage. Ofcourse the M7 is also more true to the source - like this one song in my native language which has been recorded very poorly and the female voice has a lot of sibilance; well, the Eximus actually made the it easier to listen to the song by cutting down on some of the sibilance while the M7 presents it fully.
That's more or less my experience with the dp1 and NFB-27. The dp1 is forward and engaging, but it is also brighter. The forwardness is welcomed with the HE-6, not so much with the 5LEs. The "airyness" is too much in both cases though.
By comparison, the NFB sounds more polite and gives a more distant/global view of the scene (with all the micro details you'd expect). If the dp1 sounds big, the NFB definitely sounds HUGE! It's like a sleeping giant, when you don't expect it... BAM! Huge slam in your face!
The dp1 is always enticing but never slams like the NFB-27.
From your comment it seems the M7 has the the tonal density of the ref7.1 and the dynamics & voicing of the NFB-7. Probably with more technicalities than both.
A true monster!
I wish someone can compare it to the Metrum HEX (prep, hurry up! I can sponsor you :-P )
post #559 of 1968

@Clemmaster - Right there with you.  I am dying to hear a comparison between the Hex&M7. The only issue I find with the comparison is that I found the ACSS output of the M7 to be much better than its xlr out. I tried a comparison with my Nordost Tyr xlrs between the M7 & M1 and then with the Audio GD acss cable between the M7 & M1. Guess what, I sold my Tyr's. The Nordost was giving me more bass and a bit more detail but the acss connection has amazing balance, the bass is tight and has just the right quantity, treble is more natural ( the tyr treble was more euphonic - not a bad effect overall).

I wrote to Kingwa and he confirmed that the using audio gd cables (both acss and xlr) the M7 sounds much better through the acss connection. I am hoping to try a better acss cable but no luck so far.

 

Perhaps a comparison between M7+M1 (through the acss connection) and the Hex + comparable preamp???happy_face1.gif

post #560 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrog View Post

I think the Reference 7.1 is a great DAC but it is on the warm side of neutral. The bass on the Reference 7.1 is a little exaggerated and doesn't appear to me to have as much detail and control as the NFB-7.1 or the Master 7. I preferred the NFB-7.1 to the Reference 7.1 and Reference 7HE all of which I owned at the same time. The Master 7 to me combined and improved upon the detail and neutrality of the NFB-7.1 and the emotional communication of the Reference 7.1 and Ref7HE.

 

On systems that need a bass boost or need a little extra warmth the Reference 7.1 is probably better than the Master 7. on initial running the Master 7 sounds cold and sterile. I was really worried initially I was going to hate it.

 

I don't believe I have ever liked products just because they are new or trashed old ones. Separate input chips for each digital source on the Master 7 and upgraded DSP are significant upgrades. Kingwa is a humble man and always understates the improvements of significant upgrades to Audio-gd products.

 

Regards

 

Macrog

 

This is the kind of post that makes me want to try the M7.  I have NFB7.32 which I bought on the premise that it had the most agile and clean sound available, although the definition of detail has me intrigued.  With previous setups I found that Sabre can have a dull sound when fed by less than ideal transports, while Wolfson by comparison communicated more micro detail (with AudioGD's lower end dac/amps).  

 

IN the case of outright agility and lack of grunge, which wins out between Master 7 and NFB7?

post #561 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneep View Post

@Clemmaster - Right there with you.  I am dying to hear a comparison between the Hex&M7. The only issue I find with the comparison is that I found the ACSS output of the M7 to be much better than its xlr out. I tried a comparison with my Nordost Tyr xlrs between the M7 & M1 and then with the Audio GD acss cable between the M7 & M1. Guess what, I sold my Tyr's. The Nordost was giving me more bass and a bit more detail but the acss connection has amazing balance, the bass is tight and has just the right quantity, treble is more natural ( the tyr treble was more euphonic - not a bad effect overall).

I wrote to Kingwa and he confirmed that the using audio gd cables (both acss and xlr) the M7 sounds much better through the acss connection. I am hoping to try a better acss cable but no luck so far.

 

Perhaps a comparison between M7+M1 (through the acss connection) and the Hex + comparable preamp???happy_face1.gif

 

Can you make your own?

I made mine using Homegrown Audio Silver Cable, sounds excellent.

post #562 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneep View Post

@Clemmaster - Right there with you.  I am dying to hear a comparison between the Hex&M7. The only issue I find with the comparison is that I found the ACSS output of the M7 to be much better than its xlr out. I tried a comparison with my Nordost Tyr xlrs between the M7 & M1 and then with the Audio GD acss cable between the M7 & M1. Guess what, I sold my Tyr's. The Nordost was giving me more bass and a bit more detail but the acss connection has amazing balance, the bass is tight and has just the right quantity, treble is more natural ( the tyr treble was more euphonic - not a bad effect overall).
I wrote to Kingwa and he confirmed that the using audio gd cables (both acss and xlr) the M7 sounds much better through the acss connection. I am hoping to try a better acss cable but no luck so far.

Perhaps a comparison between M7+M1 (through the acss connection) and the Hex + comparable preamp???happy_face1.gif
well, one can always feed the M1 with both the M7 (acss) and the HEX (XLR). Both would be in their optimum working operation.
post #563 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemmaster View Post


well, one can always feed the M1 with both the M7 (acss) and the HEX (XLR). Both would be in their optimum working operation.

 

 

O yeah - that would be good..popcorn.gif

post #564 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

I didn't here them side-by-side, but the Invicta I would describe as "nothing but the facts ma'am" -- what some would call cold and clinical, if very detailed. The M7 is more lively-sounding but without losing musicality.
Thanks Amos.
I listened to Invicta side by side RE7.1 for a week, using BCL and LCD-2.1.
For me, Invicta mids is really fluid, hyper detailed, airy and gorgeous! But a little lacking of vocal weight.
Soundstage is pretty wide, but not as deep and wide as 7.1. Invicta presentasion is more forward and up-close. Piano sound like my ears are 30cm away, hyper detailed, while 7.1 sounds like its 2m away, which I prefer. If I have the money, I will be happy keeping both, so I can listen depending on the mood.
Bass, compared to 7.1, invicta bass is a little leaner, but tighter? This is what I am quite worry when I heard M7 bass is tight and 'leaner'.
Treble too, it's there, very extended, probably more extended than 7.1, but less in quantity.
So kind of roll off (not lacking) in quantity.

I kind of relate this with M7 sound. Hyper detailed, leaner bass. Of course I can be wrong.

Is this what you heard with Invicta, Amos? Note that my amp synergy also contribute to the reasult above. Maybe a better matching with 7.1.
post #565 of 1968

Hey Redbull, I think you can put your worries to rest with the M7 bass. Its tight but not thin and definitely not lean. Texture wise the M7 gives wonderful bass, its not bloated but conveys the tone, timbre and intensity fully. You can differentiate between different kinds of percussion used in the recording from the M7. Just fantastic :)).

post #566 of 1968

I was actually just looking for some impressions of the Master 7 vs the Invicta/Mirus or the Auralic Vega. Im trying to pick out my new DAC upgrade to use with the Sr-009s and my KGSSHV. I really liked the Anedio D2 I used to have, but I already knew that I liked the M7, it's the best DAC I've ever gotten to hear. But the Vega also looks to be pretty awesome from all of the reviews. Im not sure I want to spend the 5k to get an Invicta/Mirus, but if it's that much better I guess I might be able to swing it. I really like the idea of have the digital volume control. The other option that is on the table is waiting to get the Yggdrasil, which looks like it could be quite the game changer as well.

 

Sometimes I think it's pretty overwhelming the number of dacs we have that are good...but I guess I'm somewhat ahead of the curve having it narrowed down to 3 maybe 4 of them.

 

So would either of you be willing to go into a bit more detail on how the Invicta fairs against the M7?

post #567 of 1968
Thinking about it, since the difference between Master 7 and Ref 7.1 is only the digital input, the difference should narrow down to what less jitter sounds like.
When I upgraded my SB Touch's digital output (Fidelity Audio level 2 mod; lowering jitter from 50ps to 2-3ps) everything sounded more "hi res": as if CD rips suddenly were upgraded to 96kHz/24bit if you get my point. Tighter bass, higher definition in the mids with more precise stereo imaging and a smoother treble. Not a huge difference, but certainly worth it in my opinion.
One thing that bugs me thinking of going for the Master 7 upgrade kit though, is that the money I spent on the digital output upgrade for the Touch (plus tax and dealing with the idiotic local courier, TollPost aka FoolPost) will then be wasted, because I will then use USB output instead of S/PDIF. Hmmm.
post #568 of 1968
Thanks Aneep.

Actually, I think again, my friend have M7, but he stay far away from my place, quite troublesome to bring 15kg dac for such distance.
Maybe I'll just take one time pain, test and done thinkin about it.
If M7 has Invicta mids detail and 7.1 bass quantity (and weight) and treble (quantity) but Invicta treble extension and treble timbre, then I'll just order. Am I asking too much for a DAC? biggrin.gif
post #569 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post

 

I didn't here them side-by-side, but the Invicta I would describe as "nothing but the facts ma'am" -- what some would call cold and clinical, if very detailed. The M7 is more lively-sounding but without losing musicality.

 

 

That's a good description what I I felt about the DP1. It sounds great -- very entertaining, but it is more like an NFB-10 would sound if it used an Analog Devices DAC -- more engaging compared to the TOTL Audio-gd DAC's "effortless" presentation.

 

I kind of agree re the Invicta, it still sounds Sabre like - there is agility and transparency, but Invicta has an excellent smoothness coupled with the transparency and detail, the transients are super clean and positive.  There was no haze or added weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

 

Can you make your own?

I made mine using Homegrown Audio Silver Cable, sounds excellent.

 

I have also made my own ACCS cables, using silk /silver wire.  If I were tobuild new ones I would not use the Rean mini XLR's as they don't seem to be that great quality.  I'm building some new ones soon using the new Furutech mini-XLR's and some rectangular litz copper wire - the connectors look really nice:

 

(image from krispy kables website)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull View Post

Thanks Aneep.

Actually, I think again, my friend have M7, but he stay far away from my place, quite troublesome to bring 15kg dac for such distance.
Maybe I'll just take one time pain, test and done thinkin about it.
If M7 has Invicta mids detail and 7.1 bass quantity (and weight) and treble (quantity) but Invicta treble extension and treble timbre, then I'll just order. Am I asking too much for a DAC? biggrin.gif

 

I think it is possible to improve bass weight with cables, computer playback software, computer hardware etc.  Wierworld platinum USB kills my previous cable for bass weight, and I have found that the SoTM USB controller (no longer in my system) increased bass weight also.  That's maybe not so great an investment ($1000 worth of of what might be considered tweaks) but it might get close to the best of both sound signatures?


Edited by drez - 7/27/13 at 11:02pm
post #570 of 1968
Quote:
Originally Posted by drez View Post

I kind of agree re the Invicta, it still sounds Sabre like - there is agility and transparency, but Invicta has an excellent smoothness coupled with the transparency and detail, the transients are super clean and positive.  There was no haze or added weight.

I agree with the sound description of Invicta, but maybe I haven't heard too many Sabre DACs. Other Sabre DAC I heard was Calyx 24/192.
Not adding bass or not enough bass is a very fine line though. We never know what the original recording is like. All we know (or all I know) is that I like 7.1 kind of bass (quantity and quality) more than Invicta. Even on blind test, my wife subconciously toe-tap more when I switch back to 7.1 and stop toe tapping when I switch back to Invicta.
I can hear double bass tone change better with 7.1
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