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post #331 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny-x View Post

Just making things difficult, eh? Good to hear though, it's gonna be a tough choice and probably come down to price at time of purchase just like you mentioned there.

 

And I read back through yours and Sharose's posts like he told me, I was able to glean a little more of an answer. I know we're probably dealing with splitting hairs at this level, but was the bass weight significantly more when you had the 2.0.2 firmware on the PWD MkII ?  That's probably my biggest scare right now, because I seemed to read a few times that the Master 7's bass weight is less than the Ref 7.1, and the PWD MkII @ 2.0.2 was above the 7.1.

 

I suppose I'm waiting on your bigger shoot-out once you get the OR5+ via I2S. There's nothing better, besides firsthand, than a solid shoot-out smily_headphones1.gif  I'm very interested in this show down too, since it's sounding like the Master 7's USB32 is a fine interface and there's no benefit to a USB->SPDIF converter, just like the PWD MkII. But feeding them I2S might have something else to show popcorn.gif

Oooops! Where did you read that? Didn't notice reading that.

post #332 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

The PWD2 and the Master 7 are two DACs that's really hard to say which is better.  

 

I changed firmware on the PWD2 to 2.2.0.  From the change it seems the 2.2.0 may in fact be a more pure and accurate representation of the recordings when compared to the 2.0.2.  The M7 already presents the music very lively and accurate plus the soud stage on the M7 seems to be a bit wider with more depth.  

 

The bass on both is now more even.  Before the bass on the PWD2 outdid the M7.  I have no idea if the bass on the M7 got better (with time) or the change in firmware scaled down the bass on the PWD2.  Now the bass on the M7 is just as good or better than the PWD2.   Both are good.

 

That's all for now.  

 

I'm in the process of getting a maxed out Off Ramp 5 so I can use I2S on both Dacs..  

 

I'll report back in a few weeks.

 

As far as the bass is concerned: I would say that there were some changes in the bass region during the initial burn-in of my M7. I am not sure if the bass has achieved the final stable state now but M7 fully satisfies my bass requirements (depth, extension, impact).

 

Also consider the quality of your power source: My Audio-GD stuff has always been sensitive to the quality of the power line. I tried some cheap filtering products but the SQ results were inferior than in case of direct connection to a wall power socket. This applies also to the bass department. I would recommend to all users of A-GD products to disconnect cheap filtering products and try the direct connection to a wall socket. Or try some power conditioner. In my case, PS Audio Power Plant Premier worked very well with my A-GD Reference ONE DAC and Phoenix - it was the best solution for these A-GD products (better than the direct unfiltered connection to a wall socket).


Edited by seaice - 4/4/13 at 3:30pm
post #333 of 1921

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

My first few days have been - so so.  Getting good detail and good sound stage.  However, the bass weight is not there.    The PWD2 is wins in bass presents at this point.  This DAC seems to be very transparent tho. 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by preproman 

The PWD2 and the Master 7 are two DACs that's really hard to say which is better.  

 

I changed firmware on the PWD2 to 2.2.0.  From the change it seems the 2.2.0 may in fact be a more pure and accurate representation of the recordings when compared to the 2.0.2.  The M7 already presents the music very lively and accurate plus the soud stage on the M7 seems to be a bit wider with more depth.  

 

The bass on both is now more even.  Before the bass on the PWD2 outdid the M7.  I have no idea if the bass on the M7 got better (with time) or the change in firmware scaled down the bass on the PWD2.  Now the bass on the M7 is just as good or better than the PWD2.   Both are good.

 

That's all for now.  

 

I'm in the process of getting a maxed out Off Ramp 5 so I can use I2S on both Dacs..  

 

I'll report back in a few weeks

 

     Quote:

 

Originally Posted by Shahrose 

I haven't heard the Master 7, but the differences between it and the 7.1 have been described in the Master 7 thread (ie. M7 is more detailed and faster, with less bass and maybe a smaller soundstage, but more focused imaging). These are not my opinions, just what I've gathered from comparisons.

 

The Off-ramp 5 is a transport. It made everything I connected it to better. The OR5+7.1 is the best source I've ever heard. The OR5 cost me $2500 which was a bit out of my budget at the time, so I unloaded it.

 

Currently, I'm using the MK3 JKSPDIF as a transport, which isn't as good ofcourse, but decent enough.

 

Hey LarsHP, those are what I found, and then maybe some other hints here and there over the course of this thread. But there is also a running theme of burn-in on Master 7 and increased bass. I'm just a little worried about what burn-in can really take care of. Like there's about 4 other posts I didn't copy that say something like "very little bass when first turned on, but now after 1 week it's much better". I believe in burn-in, it definitely takes time for a component to settle, but for it to change character, that's tough. I really do hope it's all true though, I'm shooting for a new DAC and I'd love for this to be the one!

 

That's why I'm waiting for that comparative review of the PWD mkII because from what I've found across reviews is that it's very tight and impactful in the lower registers. 

post #334 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaice View Post

 

As far as the bass is concerned: I would say that there were some changes in the bass region during the initial burn-in of my M7. I am not sure if the bass has achieved the final stable state now but M7 fully satisfies my bass requirements (depth, extension, impact).

 

Also consider the quality of your power source: My Audio-GD stuff has always been sensitive to the quality of the power line. I tried some cheap filtering products but the SQ results were inferior than in case of direct connection to a wall power socket. This applies also to the bass department. I would recommend to all users of A-GD products to disconnect cheap filtering products and try the direct connection to a wall socket. Or try some power conditioner. In my case, PS Audio Power Plant Premier worked very well with my A-GD Reference ONE DAC and Phoenix - it was the best solution for these A-GD products (better than the direct unfiltered connection to a wall socket).

 

That's exactly what I noticed when I tried that recently with the NFB-27.

 

The bad thing is: my rig consists of the NFB-27 as DAC only connected to the SA-31, so I need 2 power sockets...

 

Back a few weeks ago, I was using a cheap power strip for all my gears. I was not satisfied with the NFB-27 which I found to be hard sounding (fatiguing). The worst case was when I used it standalone (as a DAC+AMP). When connected to the SA-31, this hardness was tamed but it was still slightly annoying. The Metrum Quad did not suffer from such issue (I wrote several times on this forum that I preferred the Quad over the NFB-27, though it was clearly apparent that the latter was more technical. This was due to this hardness. Now that I managed to fix/limit this issue, I put the Quad for sale ;) ).

As a last resort before selling it, I tried to connect the NFB-27 directly to the wall socket. Guess what? That listening session was the best I had in many months!

 

Yet, connecting the NFB-27 to the SA-31 is even more enjoyable!

Now, I need to find a power conditioner or a good power strip on which I could connect both Audio-GD gears.

 

The Yulong P18 is the only one that comes to mind: does anybody know if it's worth it? 


Edited by Clemmaster - 4/5/13 at 1:11am
post #335 of 1921

But the Yulong P18 is a filter? Try a non-filtered shielded power strip, i.e. PS Audio Juice bar II or Pro-Ject Connect-It Power. I have bought the Pro-Ject Connect-It Power 16A EU version and I am very happy with it.

 

Or try a good power conditioner/regenerator: I can recommend the PS Audio Power Plant Premier for A-GD products. It is now discontinued but there are new successors...


Edited by seaice - 4/5/13 at 2:10am
post #336 of 1921

I certainly won't buy a $2.5k power regenerator for a $2.2k setup :D

PS-Audio is very expensive....

post #337 of 1921

I originally bought the PS-Audio PPP for my A-GD Ref One and Phoenix only (my setup was close to your setup in price)... ;) And it was quite an upgrade! The power line in my old house was really "dirty". But it can work differently in your system and I have to say that I always planned more stuff for the PPP... But I fully understand different ways and believe that it is generally better to upgrade the audio setup first... But the power source is very important as well.


Edited by seaice - 4/5/13 at 6:43am
post #338 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny-x View Post


     Quote:

Hey LarsHP, those are what I found, and then maybe some other hints here and there over the course of this thread. But there is also a running theme of burn-in on Master 7 and increased bass. I'm just a little worried about what burn-in can really take care of. Like there's about 4 other posts I didn't copy that say something like "very little bass when first turned on, but now after 1 week it's much better". I believe in burn-in, it definitely takes time for a component to settle, but for it to change character, that's tough. I really do hope it's all true though, I'm shooting for a new DAC and I'd love for this to be the one!

That's why I'm waiting for that comparative review of the PWD mkII because from what I've found across reviews is that it's very tight and impactful in the lower registers. 
Okay, thanks Benny.
I think it is Preproman's first impressions that Sharose quoted and Preproman has then later found that M7 bass is on the level of the PWD2. At least, that's how I read it.
post #339 of 1921

The 2.2.0 firmware PWD MK2 has less bass than the 2.0.2.

 

The M7 has around the same bass quantity as the PWD 2.2.0.

 

The M7 has less bass than the Ref7.1.

 

The Ref7.1 has more bass than both the M7 and PWD 2.2.0.

 

I like the Ref7.1 more than the PWD MK2 2.2.0, though the latter does some things better like rendering microdetail and imaging. The Ref7.1 has a larger soundstage/larger sound, more bass, more neutral tone and more instrument separation.

post #340 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

The 2.2.0 firmware PWD MK2 has less bass than the 2.0.2.

 

The M7 has around the same bass quantity as the PWD 2.2.0.

 

The M7 has less bass than the Ref7.1.

 

The Ref7.1 has more bass than both the M7 and PWD 2.2.0.

 

I like the Ref7.1 more than the PWD MK2 2.2.0, though the latter does some things better like rendering microdetail and imaging. The Ref7.1 has a larger soundstage/larger sound, more bass, more neutral tone and more instrument separation.


From this point of view it seems you prefer Ref7.1 over M7.

Is this it?

post #341 of 1921
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahrose View Post

The 2.2.0 firmware PWD MK2 has less bass than the 2.0.2.

 

The M7 has around the same bass quantity as the PWD 2.2.0.

 

The M7 has less bass than the Ref7.1.

 

The Ref7.1 has more bass than both the M7 and PWD 2.2.0.

 

I like the Ref7.1 more than the PWD MK2 2.2.0, though the latter does some things better like rendering microdetail and imaging. The Ref7.1 has a larger soundstage/larger sound, more bass, more neutral tone and more instrument separation.


Thanks for your input Shahrose! Do you have both the Ref 7.1 and M7 for side-by-side comparison? If so - an in depth comparison would be VERY welcome tongue_smile.gif

Also - in terms of bass amount - what scale of difference are we talking here? 1dB? 3dB? Just barely noticable? Very obvious difference? Or what?


Edited by LarsHP - 4/7/13 at 7:33am
post #342 of 1921

Shahrose, i am also interested to see if you prefer ref 7.1 over m7. 

 

recently i got cd7 and the terrfic performance of  this cd transport gives me motivation to buy a dac after i listened to

some cd from it . 

 

thank you.

post #343 of 1921

A post on this page makes it clear I don't have the M7, so I can't make any comparisons with the Ref7.1. I owned the PWD MK2 and Ref7.1 together for quite a while. The M7 sound I've gathered from others' comparisons to the Ref7.1 and PWD MK2.

post #344 of 1921

I read your post (#339) and from reading that it seemed obvious that you have or have heard both M7 and Ref 7.1.

But as you said - you have already been quoted (#333) for not having heard M7.

post #345 of 1921
Bah...can someone explain how to connect my SBT EDO to the M7? I reinstalled the EDO followed by the Digital Output Kernal Update. No dice. Suggestions? -Daniel
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