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post #1951 of 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinkr View Post
 

Hi @purrin,

 

I ask this question only for my own edification and not to inspire any controversy:

 

In your  Ranking of 21 DACs, you say this:

To me, when you say "it would me hard for me to name a DAC as bassy," that pretty much tells me that the DAC has an identifiable signature.  Can you help me resolve these two, seemingly opposing statements?

 

Hahaha. It's OK to ask directly. I only get pissed off when BS is implied, in which your case, it is not, even without the first sentence disclaimer.

 

Quite easy to explain:

 

  1. It's all relative in comparison to other DACs.
  2. As I indicated, the bassy nature of the M7 much more evident with USB input. With USB input, the M7 very easily has an identified signature.
  3. With OR5 as used in the "DAC comparison", the key phrase was "not so much", not "NO identifiable signature". There is a difference in meaning of which the second phrase I don't think I've ever used.
  4. What I look for in audio equipment is the ability to fool me into thinking the reproduced sound is real, not a facsimile. Going back to #1, there is the relative aspect in comparison to other DACs (M7 is basser than X,Y, Z). But in a more absolute sense, at least according to my own perception, thinner sounding DACs, or those DACs which are not able to reproduce sufficient sub-bass, overall bass, bass impact, or hint at warmth, cannot fool me into thinking it's the real thing. In fact, lean sounding DACs tend to scream "I'm fake. Look at me, I'm a digital source!" to my ears.
  5. The M7 even with the OR5 / DACLadder mods, do have a slight hint of warmth. If anything, I would prefer equipment to deviate from its ability to fool me it's real with warm tonal coloration rather than lean coloration.

 

Example:

 

M7 has more bass than BM DAC1 (relative statement)

 

  -is not inconsistent with-

 

M7 mimics / makes illusion of real-life more true than BM DAC1 because DAC1 does not have enough bass (absolute statement - to my ears), and I hear a lot of bass in real-life.

 

  -is not inconsistent with or is actually consistent with-

 

M7 has less identifiable signature to BM DAC1

 

P.S.

 

All this of course doesn't not take into account that many other DACs, especially the SABRE based stuff, have very strange treble coloration or graininess which is very identifiable and rather nasty sounding - at least to me. Also, tonal balance is only but one element in the larger scheme of things: resolution, treble timbre, dynamics and impact, microdynamics, clarity, attack and decay, continuousness of sound, etc. which make things fool me into thinking they are real.

 

Modern DACs do have of these things well. The M7 (and most other PCM1704 DACs I've heard) seem to do the other half well. The M7 + OR5 seems to be able to combine them without too much compromise. So do the MSB DACs.


Edited by purrin - 7/21/14 at 3:00pm
post #1952 of 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Both of his statments. I agree most of the time with him . I guess it's just what we like. The only DAC that has bass like the m7!is the pwd mkii. . But the M7 is overall a better DAC for me. But it must be used with an offramp or the ap1/pp. Even if I use the ps audio PWT with the various inputs including dac ladders hdmi. It's still no where as good as the usb converters. Again this is opinion but I do own all,the stuff but I do not review items.

 

No, I like my M7 w/ fully-loaded OR5 and DACLadder mod.  I am just trying to learn something between what seems/seemed to be at odds with each other in a way that I couldn't resolve myself.  Thanks for the response.

post #1953 of 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

Hahaha. It's OK to ask directly. I only get pissed off when BS is implied, in which your case, it is not, even without the first sentence disclaimer.

 

Quite easy to explain:

 

  1. It's all relative in comparison to other DACs.

(...)

Thank you for the response.  I think there was some nuance that I was missing, regarding your statements that was causing the confusion.  I think I get it now--it's not absolutes, but shades of grey you're talking about.

post #1954 of 1957

Yes, it's almost always relatives, not necessarily absolutes. I try to establish relatives and imply or sometimes directly state my preferences in absolute terms.

 

But it's not necessarily shades of grey, it's more comparative like X > Y and Y > B. If there's anything I tend to be guilty of, it's being too black and white in terms of relative comparisons. I tend have a bad tendency of stating A = great and B = poo because A > B, and not explaining current magnification level or context.

post #1955 of 1957

Purrin is over-sensitised to subtleties. ;)

post #1956 of 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Both of his statments. I agree most of the time with him . I guess it's just what we like. The only DAC that has bass like the m7!is the pwd mkii. . But the M7 is overall a better DAC for me. But it must be used with an offramp or the ap1/pp. Even if I use the ps audio PWT with the various inputs including dac ladders hdmi. It's still no where as good as the usb converters. Again this is opinion but I do own all,the stuff but I do not review items.

Al

 

Are you saying it must be used with a really good converter - or are you saying it "must" be used with a OR5 or ap1/pp?

post #1957 of 1957
Neither as music ,headphones and desires all mAtter. For me I like hyper details so I need an usb converter to calm down the heavy impact. But a bass head would be in heaven. It's all a good by me. Sound wise I like it better than the old pwd for sure and a mytek just gives me a headache .
Al
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