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Audio-Gd Master 7 - Discrete Fully Balanced DAC (PCM1704) - Page 103

post #1531 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by mowglycdb View Post
 

Can you pin out the differences vs USB so far?  ( your subjective opinion ofcourse :P )

 

Very early impressions of the M7 built-in USB (firmware 2014V2) vs. Off5 BNC:

 

Off5 BNC: Closer to reality (cymbals are a good example), more details (eg. in the bass and highs region), more enjoyable sound, more and better micro-details.


Edited by seaice - 3/20/14 at 10:16am
post #1532 of 3492
I really want you to post so others can understand and not have to run and another DAC . I can add this on his website he sells a coax spidif cable it is 250. And I know more money. . But you can cheat for now and hear an immediate improvement if you are not doing this already. Buy a one PC bnc to bnc. Or bnc to RCA. Len
bel them out so not to stress the connectors out. As most likely the coax cable you are using is wrong. I have a box full,of them all no good . It had to do with the 75 ohm imp and whatever else Steve N says. Please do this and report back . Also did you buy his PSU ? If not I am not saying to spend 750 on it , but it does make a difference. But you can use a lipo battery in its place. This too works very well.

Al
post #1533 of 3492

Thanks for the info!

 

I use Blue Jeans BNC-BNC cable. It is my proved one. I tried more BNC-BNC cables and the Blue Jeans is my favourite. The BNC connection is temporary. I am still waiting for CAT7 cables and connectors. Then, the I2S should be my primary connection.

 

However, the improvement over the built-in USB is obvious. And I am looking forward to the I2S connection.

 

BTW, I bought the full Offramp (dual clock, both Hynes options). The Dynamo power supply will be next step. First, I would like to compare the Offramp 5 and Hiface Evo.

post #1534 of 3492
Yes when I bought the whole thing , I bought is all at once all options. It is the best one PC audio upgrade I have ever bought. It works magic with any DAC I tried even ones I do not like the sound of . It still improves. The cable I am sure is very good and I bought his pre made cat cable . Just because even though I do data I did not want to mess with perfection. So in the end about 3 k. But I will say this even though you like the cable you have and I am sure it's good try the 5 .00. Connector in one PC. It sholud sound the same . Then you know yours is fine.

Al
post #1535 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaice View Post

 

However, the improvement over the built-in USB is obvious. And I am looking forward to the I2S connection.

 

 

The wierd thing is that the internal USB is connected to the DAC processor via I2S - so, in my (technically ignorant) mind, the only advantages I see with an external USB implementation would be less noise, jitter? Better PSU maybe, but the PSU in the M7 seems pretty robust... How these things relate to sonic performance I don't really know - but it seems like the OR5 is universally claimed to improve the M7.

post #1536 of 3492
And yes you just stated exactly why it is so much better. Apparently we are sensitive to whatever changes in voltage that occur. Look at ultra hiend dacs. The PSU is as big as the dac. The offramp mAkes any dac shine.

Al
post #1537 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by aive View Post
 

 

The wierd thing is that the internal USB is connected to the DAC processor via I2S - so, in my (technically ignorant) mind, the only advantages I see with an external USB implementation would be less noise, jitter? Better PSU maybe, but the PSU in the M7 seems pretty robust... How these things relate to sonic performance I don't really know - but it seems like the OR5 is universally claimed to improve the M7.

 

When you look at it, the USB input looks pretty basic on the Audio-gd gears.

 

That's a rather small board (that is internally powered) but I'm not sure all the isolation rules are being implemented as they "should be"(or as they are known to work better - even if we don't necessarily understand why).

 

PSU is one part of the equation.

post #1538 of 3492
Yes I agree , but as I have been on a quest to just what these USB converters do . And according to Steve n it's not just clocking it's noise Nd voltage variations going on. We are extremely time sensitive to sound. It's how we determin where we here what. And because of this even very tiny variations in voltage effect the process and sound reproduction in the digital to analog process. I got the same answere from audiophileo and that is why they improved there product with the pure power. We all call,it jitter but it's not just clocks that cause it. Ask dac ladder and marching imp in cables with digital data on them used for audio.
And I do not think kingwa knew how to make it better .
Al
post #1539 of 3492

It's not just i2s. Stuff like the USB receiver chip -> i2s matters. It's probably a good reason why the Gen 2 USB boards sound much better than the Gen 1 on the Schiit DACs. I think the OR5 also reclocks with some pricey crystals. Power supply matters greatly too. I had a B3 DAC build and tried it out with three boutique regulators (each of them sounded different), including the Hynes in the OR5.

 

Most of the USB implementation on the M7 is not on the board with the USB jack. It's on the big board near the chip labeled VIA.

post #1540 of 3492
Quote:

BTW, I bought the full Offramp (dual clock, both Hynes options). The Dynamo power supply will be next step. First, I would like to compare the Offramp 5 and Hiface Evo.

I’m seriously interested in your compares between the USB 2014, Offramp 5 and Hiface Evo stack.

 

I got my M7 a month ago and think the USB/M7 is lacking a little in refinement and stability. It sound a bit too rough with some, I don’t know how to describe it, extra hard pronounce in the upper mids. My Hegel with AP2 and PP was smoother. The M7 are not bad and is better than the Hegel in some other ways, but the added roughness makes it less enjoyable IMO. I had already sold the AP2 and PP before I got the M7, which I now regret.

Anyhow the Hiface Evo stack is cheaper than the Offramp 5 stack so I’m looking forward to see what your think before I make a move.

 

Other who know good transport solutions (like is it possible to use for example the Oppo 103’s HDMI to the 7) that work fine with the M7 are appreciated.

post #1541 of 3492
Quote:
 like is it possible to use for example the Oppo 103’s HDMI to the 7

The Oppo HDMI outputs are true HDMI format and not compatible with I2S used by DACs.  They are meant to be connected to a video monitor.  Differential I2S just borrows the same HDMI physical components (chips, connectors, and cables)  for another purpose entirely.  Check out the PS Audio PWT transport for "HDMI type " I2S transport.  But even PSA literature calls its I2S output "HDMI".  Very misleading and confusing. 

 

And even "HDMI" delivered I2S is not directly compatible with the Master 7 RJ45 TTL I2S input.   I wish the audio industry would stop calling differential I2S "HDMI".  They could get sued by HDMI.org as they expect a handsome yearly fee and a cut from every unit sold for just using the name "HDMI".  And that is reason Kingwa doesn't offer "HDMI" type I2S inputs on his products.

post #1542 of 3492

Thanks for clear it out DACLadder! It can be a bit confusing then company like Empirical Audio call it HDMI I2S and it looks like one. Some people on this thread :beyersmile:have also write about building a HDMI cable for the Offramp, or I just interpret it too be so.  

post #1543 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Articnoise View Post
 

I got my M7 a month ago and think the USB/M7 is lacking a little in refinement and stability. It sound a bit too rough with some, I don’t know how to describe it, extra hard pronounce in the upper mids. My Hegel with AP2 and PP was smoother. The M7 are not bad and is better than the Hegel in some other ways, but the added roughness makes it less enjoyable IMO.


This is interesting. I have the following feelings:

 

M7 USB (firmware 2014 v2): Upper basses/lower mids a little bit pronounced. Mids a little bit recessed because of the the upper bass emphases.

Off5>BNC>M7: Basses and mids better balanced. I feel that this bass/mids balance is better because mids are not recessed at all.

 

Both scenarios tested with headphones (Sennn HD800) and repro (Focal 1007Be) on Leben CS600 with the same results. But the Leben and tubes (Tung-Sol KT120) can play some role here as well.


Edited by seaice - 3/21/14 at 8:43am
post #1544 of 3492

Yes the upper mids is a little bit recessed especially in KS and ASIO in Jriver. Its IMO better in WASAPI. But even then it is a bit recessed it has a roughness like a hard edge to it. The contrast to smooth.

 

My system: PC Windows 7--- Jriver ---Master 7---Master-9 --Audeze LCD 3

post #1545 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaice View Post
 


This is interesting. I have the following feelings:

 

M7 USB (firmware 2014 v2): Upper basses/lower mids a little bit pronounced. Mids a little bit recessed because of the the upper bass emphases.

Off5>BNC>M7: Basses and mids better balanced. I feel that this bass/mids balance is better because mids are not recessed at all.

 

Pretty much my experience with 2014v2. The earlier USB had added a treble stridency which gave the M7 kind of a U-curve presentation.

 

Going to the i2s brings bass down just a tiny bit more compared to the BNC.

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