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iPad iPhone bit-perfect wi-fi streaming 24bit or DSD files / high storage capacity / portability - Page 14

post #196 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post

 

I will put in more info (in English) later for Twonky if you are interested.

VERY interested to know how to stream DSF from Seagate Wireless Plus to ipad/iphone.

Could you please post step by step instructions?

Can we finally stop converting to DoP ALAC and keep two DSD library (DSF and DoP ALAC)?


Edited by Thraex - 8/6/14 at 3:54am
post #197 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 

VERY interested to know how to stream DSF from Seagate Wireless Plus to ipad/iphone.

Could you please post step by step instructions?

Can we finally stop converting to DoP ALAC and keep two DSD library (DSF and DoP ALAC)?

I took the hackseagatesatellite route.

Go to hackseagatesatellite.com, purchased the new firmware for your WP. Ensure you have the correct initial firmware and follow the update steps. It should be easy.

 

Hackseagatesatellite provides miniDLNA.

Dump the DoP ALAC file into the /Data/Music folder, and get the miniDLNA to point to the directory to scan and categorise the media.

 

Get a player software that accept streams of DoP ALAC. 8Player is one that works. (currently, there is no raw DSD file players that can play from streams like DLNA or Twonky, therefore, your last question will not work, is because of the client, not the miniDLNA server)

 

Using iPhone + 8Player, you need Camera Conneciton Kit to your iPhone/iPad. Connect it using a good pair of cables to an external self-powered DAC (for my case I use Hugo, iFi DSD Nano should work as well).

 

Once your iPhone is connect to WP, you should be able to see the WP server from 8Player automatically.

You can than select the songs and play directly.

 

I was testing the Twonky, Unfortunately, without any software in iPhone that accepts DSF/DFF files directly and play, I could not test if it worked in the first place.

 

Hope this helps.

post #198 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post
 

I took the hackseagatesatellite route.

Go to hackseagatesatellite.com, purchased the new firmware for your WP. Ensure you have the correct initial firmware and follow the update steps. It should be easy.

 

Hackseagatesatellite provides miniDLNA.

Dump the DoP ALAC file into the /Data/Music folder, and get the miniDLNA to point to the directory to scan and categorise the media.

 

Get a player software that accept streams of DoP ALAC. 8Player is one that works. (currently, there is no raw DSD file players that can play from streams like DLNA or Twonky, therefore, your last question will not work, is because of the client, not the miniDLNA server)

 

Using iPhone + 8Player, you need Camera Conneciton Kit to your iPhone/iPad. Connect it using a good pair of cables to an external self-powered DAC (for my case I use Hugo, iFi DSD Nano should work as well).

 

Once your iPhone is connect to WP, you should be able to see the WP server from 8Player automatically.

You can than select the songs and play directly.

 

I was testing the Twonky, Unfortunately, without any software in iPhone that accepts DSF/DFF files directly and play, I could not test if it worked in the first place.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the reply, but since I'm the author of the guide in the OP which I update when new discoveries are found I already know all of your instructions.

 

I guess that you don't know that 8player works also with DSF files with a server like JRiver MC 19, I used it at home to stream DSF files from my notebook to iPad>iFi Nano iDSD on the sofa... bit-perfect DSD with no conversion at all.

 

I'm also interested to know what hackseagatesatellite firmware bring to table for this task since with DoP ALAC I already stream DSD to iPad with a not-hacked Seagate Wireless Plus.

Next thing to discover is how to stream DSF without converting to DoP ALAC.

 

I'm VERY interested to know what seeteeyou mentioned on post #190:

"Someone posted step-by-step instructions to tweak Twonky for streaming DSD off Seagate Wireless Plus, maybe that could also work for Buffalo Ministation Air but no sure yet http://ameblo.jp/fis-dur/entry-11896434104.html"

 

So, since 8player can receive DSF and feed perfectly the DSD DAC, let's see if there's someone who can translate from japanese those instructions to make the Wireless Plus to stream DSF too!

 

Any japanese can join the discussion and translate those instructions for us?
 


Edited by Thraex - 8/8/14 at 3:58pm
post #199 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 

Thanks for the reply, but since I'm the author of the guide in the OP which I update when new discoveries are found I already know all of your instructions.

 

I guess that you don't know that 8player works also with DSF files with a server like JRiver MC 19, I used it at home to stream DSF files from my notebook to iPad>iFi Nano iDSD on the sofa... bit-perfect DSD with no conversion at all.

 

I'm also interested to know what hackseagatesatellite firmware bring to table for this task since with DoP ALAC I already stream DSD to iPad with a not-hacked Seagate Wireless Plus.

Next thing to discover is how to stream DSF without converting to DoP ALAC.

 

I'm VERY interested to know what seeteeyou mentioned on post #190:

"Someone posted step-by-step instructions to tweak Twonky for streaming DSD off Seagate Wireless Plus, maybe that could also work for Buffalo Ministation Air but no sure yet http://ameblo.jp/fis-dur/entry-11896434104.html"

 

So, since 8player can receive DSF and feed perfectly the DSD DAC, let's see if there's someone who can translate from japanese those instructions to make the Wireless Plus to stream DSF too!

 

Any japanese can join the discussion and translate those instructions for us?
 

FYI, I tried the Twonky.

 

miniDLNA and Twonky had the same results using 8Player.

8Player do not send orignal DSF/DFF files out to the DAC. Similarly to DoP via FLAC.

 

I have JRiver, and likely you could have it send as DoP as well.

 

I see both DSF files from Twonky and miniDLNA from HSS. Once I press to play it, just white noise stuff coming out of my DAC.

Tested same songs via Hibiki player raw DSF and DFF, perfectly played through Hugo.

 

However, both Twonky and miniDLNA streams DXD perfectly to my DAC. As DXD is either in FLAC, or WAV format. (PCM).

 

For Twonky, you need to change the filescan handler, to accept and show DSF and DFF files. That's it.

But the issue of it having to scan through all song while startup is irritating and battery consuming. That is why I leave it with miniDLNA first since the playback result is the same as Twonky.

 

Tested all formats. Only playable DSD files is ALAC DoPE, DXD and other hires FLACs.

 

I can retest again, but the above I've observed when I tweeked the Twonky onto my Lacie Fuel using the method as described by the Japanese site.

Only thing here that is different is, I tested Twonky on the HSS firmware, of course with its own miniDLNA disabled. It should work same as it is embedded linux and I can see the twonky service on my 8player.

 

Do check your JRiver again. As I found that the output is encapsulated DSD on formats like FLAC or ALAC.


Rgds

post #200 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post
 

 

Do check your JRiver again. As I found that the output is encapsulated DSD on formats like FLAC or ALAC.


Rgds

Hi,

I've tested and use everyday JRiver MC 19 and 8player is receiving DSF files and feed the USB DSD DAC (iFi Nano iDSD in my case) with DSF perfectly and without converting to PCM (a blue light lits to show it's receiving DSD).

If I enable conversion on-the-fly from DSD to PCM, 8player will receive the PCM and another color will be displayed accordingly to the freq selected for the conversion.

And if I don't check the right options (instructions below) I'll get white noise.

More: I've noted that if you've set JRMC19 to convert DSD to 24bit PCM, you can't stream big DSD files (over 10 min) to iOS (it tries to load the file and fail, then skips to the next), with native DSF files you can and with better sound!

Of course It could also stream DoP ALAC files to 8player as well.

 

You must enable a couple of options in JRiver MC 19 (DO NOT USE an older version) to stream DSF, if not white noise or a conversion to PCM will be done in the process.

 

Follow this instructions and test yourself, but make sure you have JRiver MC 19 or newer:

 

Go to TOOLS>OPTIONS>MEDIA NETWORK>ADD OR CONFIGURE DLNA SERVERS... and

1) in AUDIO/MODE: select ORIGINAL or it'll convert to PCM.

2) in ADVANCED (the second entry not the first "Advanced") check "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" or you'll get white noise.

 

Try this settings and you'll see that DSF can be streamed to 8player at least with the iFi Nano iDSD DAC, dunno if Hugo needs different settings.

Let me know how it goes.

 

Last thing: since it seems you understand japanese could you please translate in english the instructions at this link http://ameblo.jp/fis-dur/entry-11896434104.html for Seagate Wireless Plus?

 

Thanks!


Edited by Thraex - 8/9/14 at 10:39am
post #201 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 

Hi,

I've tested and use everyday JRiver MC 19 and 8player is receiving DSF files and feed the USB DSD DAC (iFi Nano iDSD in my case) with DSF perfectly and without converting to PCM (a blue light lits to show it's receiving DSD).

If I enable conversion on-the-fly from DSD to PCM, 8player will receive the PCM and another color will be displayed accordingly to the freq selected for the conversion.

And if I don't check the right options (instructions below) I'll get white noise.

More: I've noted that if you've set JRMC19 to convert DSD to 24bit PCM, you can't stream big DSD files (over 10 min) to iOS (it tries to load the file and fail, then skips to the next), with native DSF files you can and with better sound!

Of course It could also stream DoP ALAC files to 8player as well.

 

You must enable a couple of options in JRiver MC 19 (DO NOT USE an older version) to stream DSF, if not white noise or a conversion to PCM will be done in the process.

 

Follow this instructions and test yourself, but make sure you have JRiver MC 19 or newer:

 

Go to TOOLS>OPTIONS>MEDIA NETWORK>ADD OR CONFIGURE DLNA SERVERS... and

1) in AUDIO/MODE: select ORIGINAL or it'll convert to PCM.

2) in ADVANCED (the second entry not the first "Advanced") check "Bitstream DSD (requires DoPE compliant renderer)" or you'll get white noise.

 

Try this settings and you'll see that DSF can be streamed to 8player at least with the iFi Nano iDSD DAC, dunno if Hugo needs different settings.

Let me know how it goes.

 

Last thing: since it seems you understand japanese could you please translate in english the instructions at this link http://ameblo.jp/fis-dur/entry-11896434104.html for Seagate Wireless Plus?

 

Thanks!

I don't understand Japanese, but know some of the Kanji.

Also, its unix, how different can it be right?

 

Let me try to "translate" it on step-by-step once I have time.

 

I've tried JRiver. Unless it plays directly from my Mac's USB to HUGO, it will not recognise DSD via iPhone, unless I turn on DoPE. (and JRiver is still pretty unstable but definitely a good alternative for home setup to stream HD Audio).

 

Same for Lacie Fuel I do. I just convert using Jriver to ALAC DoP and streams from miniDLNA (or Twonky).

For your case, it could work. In any case, I do not have issue of large files streaming via DoP to my 8PLayer and Hugo setup. But better still is the DXD. Which goes to 1GB per file. But streams perfectly.

 

 

 

 

Rgds

post #202 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post
 

I don't understand Japanese, but know some of the Kanji.

Also, its unix, how different can it be right?

 

Let me try to "translate" it on step-by-step once I have time.

 

I've tried JRiver. Unless it plays directly from my Mac's USB to HUGO, it will not recognise DSD via iPhone, unless I turn on DoPE. (and JRiver is still pretty unstable but definitely a good alternative for home setup to stream HD Audio).

 

Same for Lacie Fuel I do. I just convert using Jriver to ALAC DoP and streams from miniDLNA (or Twonky).

For your case, it could work. In any case, I do not have issue of large files streaming via DoP to my 8PLayer and Hugo setup. But better still is the DXD. Which goes to 1GB per file. But streams perfectly.

 

 

 

 

Rgds

 

With the Oppo BDP-105D I must disable DoPE in JRiver (and disable HDMI and other options in the player) and stream native DSD64 over ethernet.

With the iFi Nano iDSD I need to enable DoPE in JRiver, but that's still DSD transferred in PCM frames, not a standard PCM file which do not contain DSD at all.

So it depends on the DAC used, but the files are always the same DSFs and DSD streamed should be the same.

 

I don't have problems too streaming large files to iPad/iPhone using DoP ALAC or DSFs, but only when JRiver converts those on-the-fly to normal PCM.

 

How do you convert DSF to DoP ALAC in JRiver? In my case it hangs if I check DSP settings to convert to DSD in DoP format ALAC. So now I need to use a trick in Foobar2000 to have DoP FLAC and then convert again to DoP ALAC, but it's time consuming!

 

Thanks.

 

P.S. I've PMd seeteeyou to ask for that traslation too, let's see if we can sort it out soon.


Edited by Thraex - 8/10/14 at 2:31pm
post #203 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 

 

With the Oppo BDP-105D I must disable DoPE in JRiver (and disable HDMI and other options in the player) and stream native DSD64 over ethernet.

With the iFi Nano iDSD I need to enable DoPE in JRiver, but that's still DSD transferred in PCM frames, not a standard PCM file which do not contain DSD at all.

So it depends on the DAC used, but the files are always the same DSFs and DSD streamed should be the same.

 

I don't have problems too streaming large files to iPad/iPhone using DoP ALAC or DSFs, but only when JRiver converts those on-the-fly to normal PCM.

 

How do you convert DSF to DoP ALAC in JRiver? In my case it hangs if I check DSP settings to convert to DSD in DoP format ALAC. So now I need to use a trick in Foobar2000 to have DoP FLAC and then convert again to DoP ALAC, but it's time consuming!

 

Thanks.

 

P.S. I've PMd seeteeyou to ask for that traslation too, let's see if we can sort it out soon.

 

I did some more detailed test to understand what JRiver tries to do and seeing your questions, I think there are some misconception/misunderstandings.

Good, this is the way to clear some of those confusing stuff out.

 

 

About the DoP ALAC, it is ONLY for Lacie to stream wireless to iPhone 8player. Seagate Wireless Plus or Lacie can only stream ALAC DoP. Or DSD contain in ALAC formatted files.

When 8player picks the ALAC Files out, the DAC will see it and decodes it automatically to DSD.

 

I use Jriver to CONVERT DSD/DFF, hmm.. no CONVERT, but CONTAIN the DSD to a ALAC Container which conforms with DoP. Jriver does it well in this. Most other software does FLAC based DoP. Unfortunately, 8player DO NOT decode the FLAC based DoP from Lacie/Seagate Wireless plus correctly as compared with ALAC. This is in agreement with a forummer's initial findings on Seagate Wireless Plus.

 

Another few things I noticed. In my Mac version, even in DSD Studio -> Output format, if you set everything off, it does not mean JRiver do not use DoP... Rude Findlings.

I found out that it is still in DoP output from JRiver when playing DSD files (raw). So when JRiver plays a DSD files, as you have said, it will do it in DoP encoding on demand.

I found this because I was testing 2 DACs. Korg 100m and Hugo. Hugo has no issue playing the DoP and shoes it is DSD format, but Korg refuses.

I know Korg do not support DoP.

 

After looking through clearly, under Tools -> Option -> Audio, there is a Bitstream section.

It was set to DSD. 

When I do a playback of a DSD file, I check using the DSD Studio tab, at the bottom, it plays the source as DOP!

 

I turn the bitstream to OFF. restart the JRiver.

Now strangely, my Korg plays perfectly, since it streams RAW DSD now.

Check on the DSD Studio, it was looking at 384khz at 64bit! My Hugo is looking at t file at DXD format. Even though it is not bitstream but file is played raw through USB.

I might be wrong on this, but reading the initial technical stuff in JRiver, THIS IS the preferred way as the headroom created will be good for the format to work in the DAC. Of course, provided the DAC supports it. That was why when played raw, my Korg plays at DSD64, but HUGO was able to handle extremely high bit rates, it just give it all its got.

 

I did not have a chance to test the diff in the sound for both, but this is an interesting finding from JRiver.

 

So, to help clear the initial confusion, JRiver is a tool I use initially to create DoP ALAC container files from raw DSD for the file to be able to be streamed from Seagate WP/Lacie Fuel to 8player.

I did not use JRiver as DLNA since my aim is to get Lacie Fuel to stream DSD format to my HUGO via iPhone.

I have yet to test more detail on the DLNA function, but have done so for the USB direct connect for DACs.

JRiver is a power software, but a lot needs to be clarified when setting it up for us. And again, it is not stable. It crashes quite frequently.

 

How to convert:

- in Player Tab -> DSD Studio, ensure you choose the right DoP. If it is DSD 64, chose single DoP, if it is 128, chose 2x DoP.

- Select the DSD files

- Right click, choose convert format.

- A small window will appear on the lower left of the JRiver left column.

- choose format to ALAC.

- Click on Options to ensure you have the right destination set.

- Click convert

 

FooBar does not help at all. It is terribly difficult to convert to ALAC for Foobar. And you are right, -> FLAC than to ALAC.... doesn't make sense.

Initially, I do have problems converting in Jriver. After upgrading JRiver to the latest, it worked well. Again, there are some crashes but was able to manage it.

Hope the above helps to clarify some points.

post #204 of 214
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post
 

 

I did some more detailed test to understand what JRiver tries to do and seeing your questions, I think there are some misconception/misunderstandings.

Good, this is the way to clear some of those confusing stuff out.

 

 

About the DoP ALAC, it is ONLY for Lacie to stream wireless to iPhone 8player. Seagate Wireless Plus or Lacie can only stream ALAC DoP. Or DSD contain in ALAC formatted files.

When 8player picks the ALAC Files out, the DAC will see it and decodes it automatically to DSD.

 

I use Jriver to CONVERT DSD/DFF, hmm.. no CONVERT, but CONTAIN the DSD to a ALAC Container which conforms with DoP. Jriver does it well in this. Most other software does FLAC based DoP. Unfortunately, 8player DO NOT decode the FLAC based DoP from Lacie/Seagate Wireless plus correctly as compared with ALAC. This is in agreement with a forummer's initial findings on Seagate Wireless Plus.

 

Another few things I noticed. In my Mac version, even in DSD Studio -> Output format, if you set everything off, it does not mean JRiver do not use DoP... Rude Findlings.

I found out that it is still in DoP output from JRiver when playing DSD files (raw). So when JRiver plays a DSD files, as you have said, it will do it in DoP encoding on demand.

I found this because I was testing 2 DACs. Korg 100m and Hugo. Hugo has no issue playing the DoP and shoes it is DSD format, but Korg refuses.

I know Korg do not support DoP.

 

After looking through clearly, under Tools -> Option -> Audio, there is a Bitstream section.

It was set to DSD. 

When I do a playback of a DSD file, I check using the DSD Studio tab, at the bottom, it plays the source as DOP!

 

I turn the bitstream to OFF. restart the JRiver.

Now strangely, my Korg plays perfectly, since it streams RAW DSD now.

Check on the DSD Studio, it was looking at 384khz at 64bit! My Hugo is looking at t file at DXD format. Even though it is not bitstream but file is played raw through USB.

I might be wrong on this, but reading the initial technical stuff in JRiver, THIS IS the preferred way as the headroom created will be good for the format to work in the DAC. Of course, provided the DAC supports it. That was why when played raw, my Korg plays at DSD64, but HUGO was able to handle extremely high bit rates, it just give it all its got.

 

I did not have a chance to test the diff in the sound for both, but this is an interesting finding from JRiver.

 

So, to help clear the initial confusion, JRiver is a tool I use initially to create DoP ALAC container files from raw DSD for the file to be able to be streamed from Seagate WP/Lacie Fuel to 8player.

I did not use JRiver as DLNA since my aim is to get Lacie Fuel to stream DSD format to my HUGO via iPhone.

I have yet to test more detail on the DLNA function, but have done so for the USB direct connect for DACs.

JRiver is a power software, but a lot needs to be clarified when setting it up for us. And again, it is not stable. It crashes quite frequently.

 

How to convert:

- in Player Tab -> DSD Studio, ensure you choose the right DoP. If it is DSD 64, chose single DoP, if it is 128, chose 2x DoP.

- Select the DSD files

- Right click, choose convert format.

- A small window will appear on the lower left of the JRiver left column.

- choose format to ALAC.

- Click on Options to ensure you have the right destination set.

- Click convert

 

FooBar does not help at all. It is terribly difficult to convert to ALAC for Foobar. And you are right, -> FLAC than to ALAC.... doesn't make sense.

Initially, I do have problems converting in Jriver. After upgrading JRiver to the latest, it worked well. Again, there are some crashes but was able to manage it.

Hope the above helps to clarify some points.


From what I've learned here http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard

USB audio standard 2.0 can only allow to transfer DSD in PCM frames (inside FLAC or ALAC for example), but the hardware vendor could develop a specific USB ASIO driver which supports both PCM and native DSD.

So, using USB: DSD in DoP format without a specific ASIO driver or also native DSD but only with ASIO.

Apple OS only allow a PCM path (even if some software ASIO MAC is avaiable, it's generally not necessary), so DoP it's a standard universal solution.

Another advantage is that DoP could be also applied to other PCM based links such as Firewire, AES/EBU, S/PDIF etc.

 

JRiver supports ASIO natively and detect and sets the connected DAC when first started, maybe that's why you need a restart when switching different type of DACs.

 

Ethernet it's not USB so a driver isn't necessary and it all depends on how the server sends DSD to each type of DSD DAC (native DSD DAC or DoP DSD DAC).

With ethernet a DoP DSD DAC like the iFi Nano iDSD needs DoPE to be enabled in JRiver, a native DSD DAC like ESS Sabre 32 inside the Oppo BDP-105D needs DoPE to be disabled in JRiver so to receive native DSD (DoPE will not work).

 

To me all of that makes sense, but I'm open to understand more if I miss something.

 

Regarding JRiver to convert DSF to DoP ALAC in DSD1x, I always get crashes, maybe it depends on my hardware or software, but I've tried any option in JRiver and never works.

With DSP Studio disabled (not DSD Studio as you mentioned it) it doesn't crash but the resulting ALAC is 24bit @352,8Khz which is nearly 50% more of the original DSF and in any case I'm not able to replay it inside JRiver with my hardware.

 

So in my case the only solution is Foobar to obtain DoP FLAC, later I convert to ALAC to get DoP to use with 8player.

These instructions are for a Windows PC since that’s what I use.
1.Install Foobar2000: http://www.foobar2000.org/

2.Install FLAC Frontend: http://download.cnet.com/windows/seek-s-encoder-frontends/3260-20_4-10055779.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody

3.Download the "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" file and place it in the C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components folder: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4jZ4NDGECzEczBjYVByNUdjdDg/edit

4.Start Foobar and go to "File->Preferences ->Components" to make sure "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" shows up in the installed components box.

5.Go to "File->Preferences ->Tools->SACD" and set the following configuration:
ASIO Driver Mode: DSD
PCM Sample Rate: 176400
DSD2PCM mode: DSD over PCM
Click on "Enable Tags"
Note: Foobar may need to be restarted for these setting to load for conversion.

6.Use "File->Open” to load DSF or DFF files for conversion into a Foobar playlist. Highlight all the files in the playlist, right click and select "Convert". Choose the “…“ option and set FLAC as the output format. Set other conversion options (output folder, file name pattern, etc.) here.
Hit the “Convert” button to begin the batch conversion process. The first time you will be prompted for the location of FLAC.exe. Most likely it’s in C:\Program Files\FLAC Frontend\tools.

7. Convert the DoP FLAC file to ALAC (I use dbpoweramp) to have DoP ALAC.
(I don't know a setting to convert directly to DoP ALAC in Foobar, any infos are welcome).
 

If I can avoid all of this time consuming task and use only JRiver I'll be happy...

Any help?


Edited by Thraex - 8/11/14 at 6:31pm
post #205 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 


From what I've learned here http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard

USB audio standard 2.0 can only allow to transfer DSD in PCM frames (inside FLAC or ALAC for example), but the hardware vendor could develop a specific USB ASIO driver which supports both PCM and native DSD.

So, using USB: DSD in DoP format without a specific ASIO driver or also native DSD but only with ASIO.

Apple OS only allow a PCM path (even if some software ASIO MAC is avaiable, it's generally not necessary), so DoP it's a standard universal solution.

Another advantage is that DoP could be also applied to other PCM based links such as Firewire, AES/EBU, S/PDIF etc.

 

JRiver supports ASIO natively and detect and sets the connected DAC when first started, maybe that's why you need a restart when switching different type of DACs.

 

Ethernet it's not USB so a driver isn't necessary and it all depends on how the server sends DSD to each type of DSD DAC (native DSD DAC or DoP DSD DAC).

With ethernet a DoP DSD DAC like the iFi Nano iDSD needs DoPE to be enabled in JRiver, a native DSD DAC like ESS Sabre 32 inside the Oppo BDP-105D needs DoPE to be disabled in JRiver so to receive native DSD (DoPE will not work).

 

To me all of that makes sense, but I'm open to understand more if I miss something.

 

Regarding JRiver to convert DSF to DoP ALAC in DSD1x, I always get crashes, maybe it depends on my hardware or software, but I've tried any option in JRiver and never works.

With DSP Studio disabled (not DSD Studio as you mentioned it) it doesn't crash but the resulting ALAC is 24bit @352,8Khz which is nearly 50% more of the original DSF and in any case I'm not able to replay it inside JRiver with my hardware.

 

So in my case the only solution is Foobar to obtain DoP FLAC, later I convert to ALAC to get DoP to use with 8player.

These instructions are for a Windows PC since that’s what I use.
1.Install Foobar2000: http://www.foobar2000.org/

2.Install FLAC Frontend: http://download.cnet.com/windows/seek-s-encoder-frontends/3260-20_4-10055779.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody

3.Download the "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" file and place it in the C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components folder: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4jZ4NDGECzEczBjYVByNUdjdDg/edit

4.Start Foobar and go to "File->Preferences ->Components" to make sure "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" shows up in the installed components box.

5.Go to "File->Preferences ->Tools->SACD" and set the following configuration:
ASIO Driver Mode: DSD
PCM Sample Rate: 176400
DSD2PCM mode: DSD over PCM
Click on "Enable Tags"
Note: Foobar may need to be restarted for these setting to load for conversion.

6.Use "File->Open” to load DSF or DFF files for conversion into a Foobar playlist. Highlight all the files in the playlist, right click and select "Convert". Choose the “…“ option and set FLAC as the output format. Set other conversion options (output folder, file name pattern, etc.) here.
Hit the “Convert” button to begin the batch conversion process. The first time you will be prompted for the location of FLAC.exe. Most likely it’s in C:\Program Files\FLAC Frontend\tools.

7. Convert the DoP FLAC file to ALAC (I use dbpoweramp) to have DoP ALAC.
(I don't know a setting to convert directly to DoP ALAC in Foobar, any infos are welcome).
 

If I can avoid all of this time consuming task and use only JRiver I'll be happy...

Any help?

Hi,

 

I had no issue converting to FLAC from Foobar. (However, not sure for DSD5.6). It worked well. I could not do so again into ALAC as I do not have dbpoweramp. (I am using Mac). I tried to convert directly to ALAC from Foobar using numerous plugins, the resultant ALAC file is not playable.

 

For your JRiver issue, Drop a note to JRiver. Check your event viewer to see if there is any clue why it crashed. Likely there are conflicting drivers. (If you have some ASIO drivers and specific programs using them natively..etc). Also, permissioning of the files and directories and free space plays a part.

 

One way is to uninstall all, including other players, and reinstall with latest version. I had the issue before when I start JRiver ALAC conversion, it failed and crashed. New version is much more stable for me. But the good thing for Mac is, I do not need specific drivers, except for  Korg 100m DSD Dac I have, which uses a specific way of streams from AudioGate. Nice implementation. But it does ASIO as well, so ok.

However, the Win version of JRiver should be better..... I think.. as it was developed natively for Windows and later ported to Mac.

 

In regards to your USB deduction, yes its correct.

For Mac, they have Core Audio drivers which is ASIO compliant (I do not need to install any drivers for Mac). Therefore RAW files could be stream through USB directly without conversion and it all depends on DAC.

For Windows7 and below, that is not the case. You need specific drivers for it. However, WIN8 should resolve this... I think.

 

DoP is the same as DSD. Yes you are right. It is just the encapsulation. DSD is not streamable format. Headers and file types is different.(think I read somewhere is that for DSD, you need to copy everything over first prior to playing,.. is like a SHA signature at the end before it can even start)... FLAC and ALAC is in a way "build better" for streaming over mediums. FLAC/ALAC is just a container, which gets unwrapped on the apps an the content sent through to the DAC accordingly.

 

According the Japanese website, you just need to feed it the format on the Twonky to let it "accept" the DSD/DFF file and set the x-dsf or x-dff format across wireless to you. But I doubt it can really stream.. maybe just Fileshare... not sure.

So if that is the case, it will not work even it it really streams properly as DSF and DFF files since 8player uses ALAC encapsulated DOP. (Strange, why it do no support FLAC haha, since it plays FLAC hires perfectly).

 

Have tried yesterday night listening on my bed.

 

Lacie (Hackseagatesatellite) wirelessly -> iPhone 8player -> Hugo on all DSD formats and DXD. It streams well. No breaks and scrolling through the DLNA library is a breeze.

 

I hope to reset my Lacie to factory default Firmware again and test using official Lacie firmware.

Once I could revert (having problems now), I will then try the Twonky method from the Japanese site.

This time, I will use it to use DLNA to my Mac as a DLNA server serving DSD files raw. See how it will play on my mac. I think it should work, as per my experience with the 8Player.

 

Rgds

post #206 of 214
Thread Starter 

That translation from japanese!... PLEASE 8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madsumm View Post

 

According the Japanese website, you just need to feed it the format on the Twonky to let it "accept" the DSD/DFF file and set the x-dsf or x-dff format across wireless to you. But I doubt it can really stream.. maybe just Fileshare... not sure.

So if that is the case, it will not work even it it really streams properly as DSF and DFF files since 8player uses ALAC encapsulated DOP. (Strange, why it do no support FLAC haha, since it plays FLAC hires perfectly).

 

Have tried yesterday night listening on my bed.

 

 

I doubt 8player streams 24bit FLACs or DoP FLACs bit-perfectly, in my experience with different DACs it plays those but I guess downconverted to 16bit at 44 or 48khz dunno for sure since it seems 8player doesn't recognize the FLAC frequency: it sticks with the first file freq received in FLAC and then does not change even if you feed different files samples or format, you need to reconnect the DAC to have only the first file played which displays the right freq.

I've mailed the developer but wasn't interested to fix that since it's not supported...

 

That Translation from japanese...PLEASE 8)


Edited by Thraex - 8/12/14 at 4:00am
post #207 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post
 

That translation from japanese!... PLEASE 8)

 

I doubt 8player streams 24bit FLACs or DoP FLACs bit-perfectly, in my experience with different DACs it plays those but I guess downconverted to 16bit at 44 or 48khz dunno for sure since it seems 8player doesn't recognize the FLAC frequency: it sticks with the first file freq received in FLAC and then does not change even if you feed different files samples or format, you need to reconnect the DAC to have only the first file played which displays the right freq.

I've mailed the developer but wasn't interested to fix that since it's not supported...

 

That Translation from japanese...PLEASE 8)

Hi,

 

A quick update. Sorry for the long delay as my Lacie did not survive. Got it changed as the wireless was dead.

 

I am running standard firmware from Lacie Fuel, with the Twonky test. Observations:

- Both Lacie Fuel default miniDLNA and Twonky can see DSF files.

- however, no player in iOS that plays back the raw DSF file even though it can see it and shows it in 8Player or even Seagate APP.

- Both 8player and seagate app plays the ALAC DoP of DSD, which shows up properly on my DAC as DSD format.

- Hibiki plays, only when the DSF/DFF files are downloaded onto the iPhone, than it plays from the seagate app/8player.

 

So the conclusion is still this, unless there is an iOS app that can playback DSF/DFF directly from share or stream DLNA, raw DSF will not play. Even when twonky or miniDLNA presented the file as dsf/dff audio format files.

Comparing 8Player and native Seagate App, 8player is more smooth and less hiccup with playing especially large files like DXD.

 

Here are some info on how to get Twonky running:

- Download the kirkwood version of Twonky. I belief 7.2.8 is the latest version. (from twonkyforum, search google)

- Unzip it to a folder like "Twonky" locally on your PC.

- Connect as USB to wireless drive. Copy unzipped folder into it.

- disconnect from USB and start wireless drive.

- start a terminal/command prompt, connect to drive by telnet " telnet 172.25.0.1. Username : root, password :goflex

- go to "/usr/local" directory, "mkdir twonky" to create "twonky" directory

- go to the directory where you copy the Twonky. should be in "/static/Data/1/Twonky"

- "cp -r * /usr/local/twonky" to copy all to the destination (/usr/local/twonky).

- than go to the /usr/local/twonky directory... "chmod 700 twonkys* twonkyproxy cgi-bin/* plugins/*" to enable the rights to execute on the wireless drive.

- go to /var, and type "mkdir twonky" to create a app data folder. (apparently for seagate/lacie, it uses this directory.) This is where twonky will store the scanned i

 

Before starting twonky, ensure the miniDLNA services are stopped or killed.

- type "ps" to look at the services. then type "kill <pid>" where <pid> is the process ID number which you can see miniDLNA running.

- ensure all miniDLNA processes are stopped

- type "/usr/local/twonky/twonkystart" to start the twonky" Do not use "./twonkystart" as this is not recommended by Twonky themselves.

 

You then need to access the twonky config by using a browser "http://172.25.0.1:9000/webconfig"

Ensure under settings that the music folder is selected to scan. It should be in /static/Data/1/Music folder. I will select type to MUSIC and not leave it default as ALL, otherwise all JPG and other types of files will be scanned as well. Do not worry, the music type scan will default, scan in the album art. Wait for a while, you can see in STATUS on the webconfig on number of songs scanned.

 

Start your ipHone, ensure it is connected to the Lacie/Seagate network.

Start your 8player. Under Music, you should see Twonky server at the bottom. Select it, and browse.

 

Again, I did not start the twonky automatically in the drive, this is test only. 

But you need to disable the miniDLNA first from seagate prior to start Twonky. 

 

As test, Twonky will not autostart, so it is safe.

post #208 of 214
Thread Starter 
Thank you very much for the translation, I'll try it on the Seagate Wireless Plus 2TB in the following days and let you know.

BTW, after I've loaded into it nearly 1,5 TB of music it is very slow to scan all files (1 hour to be ready) and it do it everytime you restart it, not practical at all.
So for now that slow scan issue is much more important than find a solution to convert directly to DoP ALAC from DSF (JRiver crashes for me but I can still use safely that trick in foobar to get DoP FLAC and then convert to ALAC)
It's even slower than GoFlex Satellite, it seems to scan first the files and then another scan brings metafata, with GoFlex Satellite at the first scan you get metadata too and you could play what's already scanned while waiting the whole scan to finish.
Edited by Thraex - 8/24/14 at 6:01am
post #209 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

Thank you very much for the translation, I'll try it on the Seagate Wireless Plus 2TB in the following days and let you know.

BTW, after I've loaded into it nearly 1,5 TB of music it is very slow to scan all files (1 hour to be ready) and it do it everytime you restart it, not practical at all.
So for now that slow scan issue is much more important than find a solution to convert directly to DoP ALAC from DSF (JRiver crashes for me but I can still use safely that trick in foobar to get DoP FLAC and then convert to ALAC)
It's even slower than GoFlex Satellite, it seems to scan first the files and then another scan brings metafata, with GoFlex Satellite at the first scan you get metadata too and you could play what's already scanned while waiting the whole scan to finish.

Under Advance -> Rescan Interval, enter '0" (numeric Zero)
This should stop the rescans. I am testing this..

For DOP creation, try this
- Ensure you have DoP setup in Playback option set.
- playback dsf and dff file to ensure things are working through your DAC.
- Select one of this file and convert

This works if it crashes for me.
post #210 of 214
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the tip, but JRiver has same behavior as before: or it crashes ot I get DoP ALAC at 352,8Khz 24bit (no options are configurable under DSP settings after DSD1x is selected).

 

Where is located and which device or software has the "Advance" > "Rescan Interval" you're referring to?

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