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iPad iPhone bit-perfect wi-fi streaming 24bit or DSD files / high storage capacity / portability - Page 2

post #16 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

I've high hopes for the Seagate GoFlex Satellite http://www.seagate.com/external-hard-drives/portable-hard-drives/wireless/seagate-satellite/ sice I've read carefully its manual, faq and other infos. The most intersting parts are:

In the manual it's clearly stated it does not transcode (convert) files but is able to stream any files the device supports or files supported by third-party apps.

In the FAQ it's stated it has some DLNA capability (but not fully certified), AirPlay it's not yet supported, but some third-party applications are capable of streaming files from the browser interface or DLNA connection and playing that via AirPlay.

If it doesn't transcode but decode files using the built in iPad palyer it should works at least with ALAC/AIFF, if it uses the player inside its dedicated app it'll probably downsample, it's still possible to use third-party apps but I'm uncertain which and how to do it.

However, even if it's not currently possible, for sure Seagate can do a simple software update to allow 24 bit streaming with in built player.

I'm very near to buy it just to find out if it's capable right now, and I'm experimentig with iPeng and DLNA servers to check if it's possible to bypass LMS.

 

Anyone has a Seagate GoFlex Satellite to experiment or know how to use third-party apps capable of 24 bit streaming?

 

^ Please note that a portable NAS, such as the Seagate Satellite, may have a speed limit for streaming as its CPU is limited (you should ask Seagate's tech support for such streaming speed limit).

 

24 bit play back may require over 2000 kbps, which a portable NAS may not be able to provide.

 

I know for sure that the Patriot Gauntlet Node that I bought can not stream over 2000 kbps (I have some 24 bit flac files that are 3000 kbps).

 

The 8Player app is known to work with the Seagate and perform better than Seagate's stock app (not sure it supports 24 bit though). There are also apps like OPlayer, GoodPlayer, AcePlayer, BuzzPlayer and PlugPlayer, which support streaming in various modes.


Edited by zzffnn - 9/5/12 at 8:28pm
post #17 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

Just received confirmation from Fostex:

"Dear Sir,


Thank you for your email to our website.


The HP-P1's S/PDIF just outputs what it receives from an iPod. The

rate varies depending on the iPod, but it's either of 16bit / 32Hz -

44.1Hz - 48Hz. This is the specification of iPod.


Please note the HP-P1 does not comply with iPad."

iPad not supported it's strange, but it's rouled out for 24 bits. OT updated.


 

Although the iPad works it's the HP-P1, for some reason Fostex doesn't officially list it in its supported list (as such CypherLab's comparison matrix advert).

The same with the Go-DAP. I need ask the JP manufacturers why the next time I see them. I wonder if it's some kinda licensing issue rather than technical.
post #18 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

 

^ Please note that a portable NAS, such as the Seagate Satellite, may have a speed limit for streaming as its CPU is limited (you should ask Seagate's tech support for such streaming speed limit).

 

24 bit play back may require over 2000 kbps, which a portable NAS may not be able to provide.

 

I know for sure that the Patriot Gauntlet Node that I bought can not stream over 2000 kbps (I have some 24 bit flac files that are 3000 kbps).

 

The 8Player app is known to work with the Seagate and perform better than Seagate's stock app (not sure it supports 24 bit though). There are also apps like OPlayer, GoodPlayer, AcePlayer, BuzzPlayer and PlugPlayer, which support streaming in various modes.

Thank you very much for the info, I've updated the OT for possible storage wi-fi devices, but more details are needed.

 

What's strange for Patriot Gauntlet Node PCGTW25S, is that it officially supports up to 150Mbit, but it's not specified if via USB or Wi-fi, I hope they don't refers to minutes instead of seconds...

Are you sure the 2000 kbps limits are not software related? Built in server/player, file format used,... since I've experimented softwares do limit streaming regardless hardware used.

Up to 2.000Kbps are only lossless 16 bit or max 24 bit / 48Khz files, is it possible it won't support any file the receiving device player supports? iPhone / iPod Touch are limited at 24/48 even with LMS/iPeng which to my knowledge is the only software configs capable to bit perfect stream 24 bits for those.

Which device you've streamed to?

I've not found any hint related to software capabilities reading Patriot manual and infos, the GoFlex Satellite has some which I'm confident.

However I'll add it to the list of not capable but still possible since a software update could do the job.

 

For software the player matter, not only the server or the iDevice used.

PlugPlayer data are always downsampled, even with iPad, to 16 bit regardless UPnP server (JRiver, Asset and Foobar) or settings used.

Stock iPad player can do 24 bit, stock iPhone/iPod Touch can't.

iPeng player is 24 bit-perfect up to 96Khz for iPad and 48Khz for iPhone/iPod Touch, but only with dedicated Logitech software server.

Since you've stated 8Player (no mention of 24 bits support in website) works with GoFlex and Seagate software officially supports third-party apps, maybe we could find today an app which works at 24 bits with it.

I have to work a lot to experiment any config possible myself, anyone can help to roule out some variables?


Edited by Thraex - 9/6/12 at 1:46pm
post #19 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post


Although the iPad works it's the HP-P1, for some reason Fostex doesn't officially list it in its supported list (as such CypherLab's comparison matrix advert).
The same with the Go-DAP. I need ask the JP manufacturers why the next time I see them. I wonder if it's some kinda licensing issue rather than technical.

Thanks AnakChan,

 

given Fostex pro reputation and HP-P1 32 bit dac, it's not only strange it's limited to 16 bit and without iPad support, it's more strange internally has a balanced design but no balanced out for capable headphones (look Lillee post here http://www.head-fi.org/t/566026/fostex-hp-p1-portable-amplifier-and-dac-for-ipod-iphone-short-review-and-impressions-thread/690 )

 

BTW when you'll do more test as reported before?

post #20 of 206
Thread Starter 

OT updates regarding:

Better sound quality (more details, dynamics, space, smoother rendering, bass definition...) using Logitech Media Server + iPeng (in-app purchase of player needed) than iTunes Home Sharing with stock player and same file, the former plays FLACs too (no need to convert to ALACs) and has a much better and faster interface, check it out.

And to be more clear that software player used and iDevice used do matter (stock iPad player at least up to 24/96, iPhone/iPod touch 24/48 possible, iPod Classic max 16/48) as much as server software.

New DAC/Amp combo from Sony PHA-1 (http://www.sony.jp/headphone/products/PHA-1/ ) which supports up to 24/96, if it has a dedicated player maybe 24 bit also for iPhone/iPod Touch (like iPeng), with stock player I suspect 16 bit limited and 24 for iPad only. No analog out and no spdif out to any external DAC.


Edited by Thraex - 9/6/12 at 3:05pm
post #21 of 206
Thread Starter 

OT updated:

More focus on portability everywhere (main goal) with iPad since the only capable up to 24/96.

Buffalo MiniStation Air (500 GB) for portable battery powered wi-fi server devices.

 

I'll try to be more synthetic and less detailed in future updates, since someone is complaining OT is too long, but maybe a new user will not understand all points to be addressed.

What you think?

 

Most important question:

Is it possible to install Logitech Media Server (avaiable for various OS and NAS) in any of the battery powered wi-fi server devices so to use iPeng which is the only configs working for FLACs too?


Edited by Thraex - 9/7/12 at 9:20am
post #22 of 206

Success in streaming 24 bit (may or may not have down sampling, not sure):

flac files on Patriot Gauntlet Node (portable battery-powered NAS) --> SAMBA streaming --> AcePlayer Pro app --> iPhone 3GS w/ IOS 5

 

The above setting can (pros):

1) store and play up to 2TB of flac

2) output digital (via Pure i20 coax/optical) to an external DAC

3) stream 24 bit / 96 kHz flac songs (the largest flac I tried was 172mb in size and 3058 kbps). But I am not sure if down-sampling occurs here.

4) perform reasonably like an iTouch minus album art (can do auto next, next/previous song, fast forward/rewind, background play with screen off).

5) display all album structures correctly (including sub folders).

 

The cons/bad:

1) no album art

2) no gapleess playback. Gap is 1.5 - 3 seconds long depending on the size/bitrate of flac. Gap is longer than Rockboxed Clip during playback.

3) start-up time is 2-3 minutes in total. The NAS takes about 30 sec to boot to NAS mode, then you may need to set up bridge mode using the Gauntlet Connect app (if you want streaming music and internet at the same time on your iPhone). Although without setting up bridge mode, PGN still works as a music/file server.

4) when screen is off, iPhone 3GS (IOS 5) will stop playing, so screen has to stay on. Although the app can run in the background w/o problem.
5) There is slight/discrete noise produced during screen activities (e.g., scrolling down a long page). High resolution playback seems to be affected more.

 

For additional notes, please see this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/620238/1000gb-flac-on-the-go-successfully-streaming-to-iphone-ipad-android-portables/60#post_8679324


Edited by zzffnn - 9/8/12 at 11:08am
post #23 of 206

So to answer Thraex:

 

The speed cap was told by tech support of Patriot, which appears to be software limitation of the Patriot app. Because AcePlayer Pro can stream flac of 24bit/96 kHz (3058kbps) to iPhone 3GS. Note that I do not know if down-sampling occurs. But honestly, I do not care in portable use.

post #24 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

So to answer Thraex:

 

The speed cap was told by tech support of Patriot, which appears to be software limitation of the Patriot app. Because AcePlayer Pro can stream flac of 24bit/96 kHz (3058kbps) to iPhone 3GS. Note that I do not know if down-sampling occurs. But honestly, I do not care in portable use.

Thank you so much for your time and infos.

 

I know that most people don't cares about 24 bit audio and are happy with mp3 or 16/44, but I'm not.

My home stereo costs nearly 20.000 Euros and I'm always trying to improve it, I swear!

With it I'm able to tell the difference between 24 or 16 bit files, probably in a lower quality system I can't.

Maybe I will never be satisfied even with a 200.000 Euro system, since I've not a room big enough to accomodate the Wiener Philharmoniker and Bill Evan is not recruitable anymore.

I want a high-end setup also for portable use, regarding sound quality souce matter most, so my interest for 24 bit files.

 

Let's focus only if it's technically possible to pass 24 bit-perfect data, ok?

 

I've just tested AceMusic app for iPad from Ranysoft (same specs for audio only as AcePlayer Pro) with UPnP/DLNA servers like JRiver, Asset and Foobar (various settings/formats used).

I can stream 24/96, but data are downsampled before reaching the DAC (it never display anymore than 16/44.1Khz).

I don't know if using SAMBA streaming or AcePlayer Pro could works.

 

Too many variables in the chain, too many HW/SW to try, and any piece do matter.

We need to roule out something:

hardware= portable battery powered high storage (500GB or more) wi-fi devices that don't require internet connection to work (Airstash rouled out)

server software=bundled or UPnP/DLNA or LMS

player software=bundled or UPnP/DLNA or iPeng

(iTunes HS rouled out since no FLACs and iPhone/iPod Touch 16 bit limited)

 

If bundled SW could do the job we're done, but none reported yet (PGN is rouled out, zzffnn confirmed it, I'll update the OT)

 

Some NAS already supports LMS required for iPeng, but none are battery powered and wi-fi.

Any suggestion?

 

I don't know any UPnP/DLNA server and player setup which is already reported working for 24 bit-perfect streaming to iPad.

Any suggestion?

 

 

 

P.S.

great find from mikemercer:

"I got the HRT Headstreamer and their host mode adapter (basically a CCK).

It works splendidly with my iPad2!!!!

 

Here's a link to a picture of it in action:

http://sonicsatori.tumblr.com/post/30860204648/this-thing-sounds-amazing-w-my-ipad-hrt

 

It runs off the iPad battery this way, but it lasted for hours the other night NO PROBLEM"


Edited by Thraex - 9/7/12 at 2:07pm
post #25 of 206

^ Thraex,

 

I agree with you that it would be interesting to streaming 24 bit flac to iPad portably.

 

I don't have my iPad with me. On my iPhone's app store:

1) AceMusic is a free app.

2) AcePlayer costs $0.99.

3) AcePlayer Pro costs $5.99.

 

So these app's may not be the same.

 

If I were you, I would buy AcePlayer Pro to find out. Since your system cost that much, $5.99 is nothing to you. I bought 3 app's to find out that only one app does what it claims to do. All of three app's cost me <$10 together, so it is no big deal and worth it to try them all.

post #26 of 206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

Since your system cost that much, $5.99 is nothing to you.

Touché! 

(french expression used when fencer's attack goes to sign)ksc75smile.gif

 

I've an expensive system but not money to burn, you know, more rich more stingy!

 

I've already burned a lot with so many apps, software and hardware tested, since none worked, I'd have preferred buy more 24 bit file music.

 

I think those apps differ mainly by features, maybe I'll give it a try, but if it won't works do you swear publicly you'll buy the next to test?

I have a few on my list...


Edited by Thraex - 9/8/12 at 4:10am
post #27 of 206
Thread Starter 

Major update:

8Player for iPad is the first DLNA player working up to 24/96!

Tested myself.

Cover arts, fast browsing and all, no need to do any special setting, download and play. Great!

This changes things a lot since UPnP/DLNA is common and user frendly.

 

I need to buy GoFlex Satellite hoping it's server will not downsample.

If it'll works we're done regarding portable everywhere server/player 24 bit-perfect setup.

 

OT will be updated sasp.


Edited by Thraex - 9/8/12 at 5:45am
post #28 of 206
Thread Starter 

8player still needs further testing, since some files are resampled or sample locked someways: for example 44.1 files played next 88,2 files remain at 88,2.

Seems to stick at last highest sample received.

I don't know now if its the player or the DAC locked or JRiver (only one server tested till now), I'll do more tests.


Edited by Thraex - 9/8/12 at 6:57am
post #29 of 206
Thread Starter 

JRiver server works perfectly:

wi-fi streaming > wi-fi router > cabled to Yamaha/Linn DS receiver > digit out to same USB DACs which can receive digit in too.

Each device always dysplays the right file format and bit/freq received.

 

First the good news:

8player with ALACs works perfectly and we have finally a 24 bit-perfect DLNA/UPnP player! beerchug.gif

 

FLACs with 8player are not working properly or my DACs are unable to recognize bit/freq received from 8player:

if I play FLACs I can hear music but the display remain at the same bit/freq received from last ALAC played, even if I use 16/44 FLACs and last ALAC was 24/96 it remains at 24/96!

So for now FLACs aren't approved with 8player, but I'm very happy the same.

 

Anyone can test it with FLACs and other configs please?

 

post #30 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

^ Thraex,

 

I agree with you that it would be interesting to streaming 24 bit flac to iPad portably.

 

I don't have my iPad with me. On my iPhone's app store:

1) AceMusic is a free app.

2) AcePlayer costs $0.99.

3) AcePlayer Pro costs $5.99.

 

So these app's may not be the same.

 

If I were you, I would buy AcePlayer Pro to find out. Since your system cost that much, $5.99 is nothing to you. I bought 3 app's to find out that only one app does what it claims to do. All of three app's cost me <$10 together, so it is no big deal and worth it to try them all.

Odd, I was able to download Aceplayer pro on my ipad for free, could then get in on my iphone for free. 

Read through the manual for the Seagate Satellite, looks like a great portable solution in conjunction with flac player for an idevice. There have been mixed reviews on Amazon, some of which were addressed by the manufacturer. 

Hopefully you'll get if figured out in time for our trip to Negril over Christmas so I can enjoy a large library of hi-res Flac streaming from the deck of our villa to my chair on the beach :)

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