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iPad iPhone bit-perfect wi-fi streaming 24bit or DSD files / high storage capacity / portability - Page 8

post #106 of 232

I have been able to get the SWP to work effectively by setting it up with Parallels for the Mac. I had two of these drives, both returned now, that failed to function stably when set up directly for the Mac. Both of them incessantly hung - often causing a real challenge to shutdown. Since running them on my Mac using Parallels, I have had no issues with hanging. Hopefully, Seagate will get this drive stable for the Mac.

 

I also have found that 8Player works well with the drive, particularly with FLAC tracks - but, so far, I have not been able to get AIFF files to show-up with 8Player. I contacted the 8Player developer, and he suggested this is most likely an issue with the way Seagate addresses AIFF files. I have talked to Seagate, pointing out this challenge, and they have apparently escalated it to their software developer. Even Seagate's app, at least at this point, is irregular in supporting AIFF files. 

 

It would be nice if 8Player did a better job of showing metadata, and particularly album art. It's a stable app for the iPad, but definitely lacks ascetics.

 

I also have found that dbpoweramp is the only way to go for thorough metadata and album art support - nothing that I have tried on the Mac - over a dozen apps - comes close (which is a shame).

 

Thanks also for your suggestion about converting to WAV files. While they may work well with 8Player, the prospect of converting and managing thousands of tracks simply for this device seems too overwhelming. 

 

For those who might be interested, my set-up is:

 

SWP, iPad Retina, Apple Camera Connection Kit, USB cable out to ALO Audio International DAC/Amp, to Beyerdynamics DT990 headphones. This gives superb, 24 bit sound. 

post #107 of 232
Thread Starter 

Metadata are managed both by the server AND the app, both need to manage each file type the same way or they'll not comunicate tags well or at all.

I could bet the Seagate server side is not up to the task, I've used 8player with AIFF in the past but with different servers (Jriver, Asset, Twonky,...) and different results.

Each server software will output different metadata to the same player.

For example using 8player app and WAV tags:

Twonky needs to have WAV tagged as "LIST Only" or it'll show Artist as Unknown even if the field Artist is tagged correctly with "ID3".

JRiver needs WAV tags as "ID3" since with "LIST Only" the Track Number is not considered and songs are sorted alphabetically only.

 

With dbpoweramp it's easy to convert AIFF to WAV tagged as ID3 or LIST Only, just check your server first to know how it'll handle tags before converting!


Edited by Thraex - 11/29/13 at 5:58pm
post #108 of 232

Thank you Thraex for the very useful thread.  I'm using my Meridian Explorer DAC with USB Powered Hub and playing Apple Lossless (.m4a) files in either the Seagate app or 8Player without a hitch. The Median Explorer lights change to the appropriate rate for the different content that I play, from 44.1Khz to 192 Khz material. For 176.4 or 192 Khz material, the 3 leds light up, confirming that the music is not being downsampled.

post #109 of 232

On a separate note, this new little device announced today holds a lot of promise:

http://ifi-audio.com/en/Nano_iDSD_.html

 

Given that it's battery powered (rechargeable), it would seem that it can operate with the iPad without the need of the USB powered hub.

post #110 of 232
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticos442 View Post

On a separate note, this new little device announced today holds a lot of promise:
http://ifi-audio.com/en/Nano_iDSD_.html

Given that it's battery powered (rechargeable), it would seem that it can operate with the iPad without the need of the USB powered hub.

I know it's difficult to understand and maybe I wasn't clear enought or you have not read carefully...

It's not enough to have a battery powered device to avoid the use of a USB powered Hub!
Even desktop USB Dacs with dedicated linear power supply could fail to work with iPad USB output.
First the USB DAC needs to work DRIVERLESS up to at least 24/96 regardless how it's powered, a lot of them work only with dedicated drivers so they'll not be compatible with iPad/CCK.
The second must have feature is that the Dac's USB Input port will require less than 20ma or you'll need a powered USB Hub.
Edited by Thraex - 12/4/13 at 6:25pm
post #111 of 232

Thank you and understood.  What prompted my assumption is that in their web site, the manufacturer claims that it can work with an iPad and the CCK with no mention of a powered hub:

 

"Below are some screenshots taken with iPhone 4S with Onkyo HF Player > Camera Connection Kit > iDSD"

 

I guess the only way to find out for sure is for someone to try it out and post the results here...

post #112 of 232
Thread Starter 
It'll be great if you can't try it and post results, but remember another important thing: most apps or devices could replay the digital data but they downsample higher resolutions to 16/48 max.
To check bit-perfect output you need to use its digital out to an external DAC able to display bit/freq received.
Even server could downsample data so check their settings too to avoid transdecoding at lower res.

Any hardware or software used in the digital chain could break the bit-perfect accuracy.
Edited by Thraex - 12/5/13 at 5:35pm
post #113 of 232

I ordered the iDSD today, but won't get it until later in December.  I will perform the tests and report back at that time.

post #114 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

It'll be great if you can't try it and post results, but remember another important thing: most apps or devices could replay the digital data but they downsample higher resolutions to 16/48 max.
To check bit-perfect output you need to use its digital out to an external DAC able to display bit/freq received.
Even server could downsample data so check their settings too to avoid transdecoding at lower res.

Any hardware or software used in the digital chain could break the bit-perfect accuracy.


I got the iFi iDSD today and performed the tests.

 

1.  Works perfectly just connecting the iDSD to the iPad using CCK

2.  No need for Powered Hub at all

3.  The iDSD has a led light with colors that show the specific frequency, similar to the Dragonfly.  It has different lights for 1X (44.1, 48), 2X (88.2, 96) and 4X (176.4, 192), as well as different colors for DSD content at different frequencies:  DXD 353/384Mhz, DSD 2.8/3.1Mhz and DSD 5.6/6.2 MHz

4.  I played content in all different formats and frequencies above in my iPad and got the right results - bit perfect every time.  Used the FLAC app for PCM content and the Onkyo HF Player for DSD content

 

I'm pretty astonished about the sound quality as well, but I'll do some burn-in of the unit this weekend to see if opens further.  I'll do comparisons against the Explorer later on, but so far this little technology marvel will be my travel companion as it does not require the USB Powered Hub as it has its own internal battery, supposed to last 10 hours.

 

Simply amazing for its price!

post #115 of 232
Thread Starter 
Thank you and great find the idsd.
Could you test it with iPhones too? They say it could work with adapter, could you confirm it?

I'll update OT soon and order the iDSD to celebrate new reference rig for portability, formats compatibility and price!
Edited by Thraex - 1/4/14 at 4:58am
post #116 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

Thank you and great find the idsd.
Could you test it with iPhones too? They say it could work with adapter, could you confirm it?

I'll update OT soon and order the iDSD to celebrate new reference rig for portability, formats compatibility and price!


I have an iPhone5 but did not have the lightning to USB CCK.  I just ordered it to perform this test, but it will take a few days 

post #117 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thraex View Post

Thank you and great find the idsd.
Could you test it with iPhones too? They say it could work with adapter, could you confirm it?

I'll update OT soon and order the iDSD to celebrate new reference rig for portability, formats compatibility and price!

Great news!

 

I got the lightning to USB CCK adapter today.  I'm happy to report exactly the same results as with the iPad.

 

I played content in all different formats and frequencies as  in the iPad test in my iPhone5 and got the right results - bit perfect every time. This time I used the Onkyo HF Player for both PCM and DSD content.

post #118 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ticos442 View Post
 

Great news!

 

I got the lightning to USB CCK adapter today.  I'm happy to report exactly the same results as with the iPad.

 

I played content in all different formats and frequencies as  in the iPad test in my iPhone5 and got the right results - bit perfect every time. This time I used the Onkyo HF Player for both PCM and DSD content.

Great find! Saves the trouble of finding and hooking up to a powered hub and batterypack. Hope it won't be too expensive in Holland.

post #119 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by dikkiedirk View Post
 

Great find! Saves the trouble of finding and hooking up to a powered hub and batterypack. Hope it won't be too expensive in Holland.


Agree!

 

In addition, because the iFi has its own battery power, and when you connect it to an iPad or iPod (internal battery power also), the whole connection by definition is very low noise.  Without the iFi, if you use a powered hub, you are usually introducing dirty USB power from whatever power source you use (unless it's a 5V battery pack), and added cables and interconnects - all which can degrade sound quality.   With the iDSD all those issues are gone, and the configuration is truly portable.


Edited by ticos442 - 1/14/14 at 4:19pm
post #120 of 232

In addition on the 24/192 subject. I got info from the developer that iPeng DOES NOT handle 24/192 because of IOS7 capabilities.

I got the following answer when I asked about updating to iPeng 7.

 

iPeng does handle 24/96 natively but not 24/192, that's beyond iOS' caoabilities and needs to be downsampled on the server side.

Whether it plays unaltered through USB depends on your USB hardware. Obviously, the DAC has to support 96 kHz, 24 Bit playback.

In addition, only iPhones from iPhone 5 and iPads support 96 kHz sample rate, all other devices will downsample the audio to 48 kHz (iOS does that, not iPeng).

On iPads without Lightning connector you need to use the Camera Connection Kit for this to work, all other docks or adaptors will make iOS resample the audio to 48 kHz.

On devices with Lightning connector, you need to use a dock or connector that explicitly supports the Lightning connector or iOS will downsample to 48 kHz.

I believe CCK will work here, too, but haven't tested it myself. Here is a detailed article on the High-Res playback in iPeng although it precedes iOS 7.

 

http://penguinlovesmusic.de/2012/08/14/ipeng-goes-audiophile/

 

Can anyone confirm this? Or will IOS7 and iPeng upto version 1.4.16 still send 24/192 through CCKs USB port?

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