Hifiman HE-500 versus Sennheiser HD650 - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice 

Also, I have the HE-500s on demo right now, and I do prefer my HD650s over the HE-500s.  I don't know if my demo set is defective or what, but I was very underwhelmed by their sound, especially when compared to the LCD-2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsplice 

I have to disagree with your assessment that the HD650s have a more extended treble than the LCD-2s.  I own both, and can say with utmost certainty that the LCD-2 is clearly superior in almost all aspects to the HD650; treble extension, transparency, detail retrieval, bass extension (as you noted), and just overall fluidity to the sound.  The only area where I can say that HD650s may beat the LCD-2s is soundstage width.  Are you using rev 1 or rev 2?  If you're on rev 1, you may want to consider upgrading to rev 2.

Wow, our opinions are 180 degrees out of phase, but okay... what kind of music do you usually listen to? (for me, acoustic classical)

I think I have rev 2 of the LCD-2, according to my serial number (531...)

We could agree in one sense. For a moment consider the distinction I make between "bright" and "extended." Extended means you are getting real information in the upper octave; that you are getting sound that enhances the colors of the tonal palette. Something that is not extended can still be "bright" by having a peak somewhere.

Okay, so to me the HD650 are brighter than the LCD-2. If I wrote earlier they are more "extended" I'm not sure about that-- I'm not sure they are really giving me any useful information in the top octave. But no doubt they are brighter. I don't know how anyone could hear it otherwise.

The LCD-2 is a dark sound that is missing the top octave, mostly, something confirmed by FR plots but also the ears of a number of my friends who are more into speakers and have a good ear for tonal balance.

The HE-500 stomp all over the HD650 and in fact, for me, beat the LCD-2 in overall performance (although LCD-2 wins in bass performance). The HD650 just has a rough transient sound, a lack of definition in leading edges -- once you hear that definition in planar drivers like the LCD-2 and Hifiman, there is no going back. The HE-500 is a tradeoff with the LCD-2---missing the LCD-2's bottom octave but possessing a nice top octave. It presents transients differently. At the moment I prefer the HE-500 but I'm not certain -- I need to give it more time -- it may be a slight overemphasis, not sure.

Oh, the HE-500 has more precise and expansive imaging than the LCD-2, which may be mostly due to its upper-range extension (a lot of those placement cues come in the top octave). And I'm not even using with my favorite cable right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silversurfer616 

Does the HE500 have a more 3D like soundstage than the LCD2?
 

With the caveat that this is about my ears and my system,

The stock LCD-2 had good imaging but not really "open" (i.e. felt a little closed into the head). My K Works Audio re-cable brought great 3D imaging and openness. At the recent LA meet I compared a stock LCD-3 to my recabled LCD-2 and mine was superior in imaging and extension.

I am still burning in my HE-500, and I'm using a different cable with it (the Cardas Clear rather than the K Works Audio), so my observation is that it has more precise and left-right expansive imaging than my LCD-2. (I expect that to improve further once I can get Igor at K Works to make a cable for it.) The left-right boundaries are outside the head. On several recordings I noticed that instruments which were panned mostly left or mostly right were placed well outside my head, but there was a downside-- they were distracting rather than integrated into the whole field of sound -- i.e. they were too prominent by location and grabbed attention (i.e. distraction) away from the whole sound field. I am not sure if that's really a fault of the headphone -- after all, most recordings are not mixed for headphone playback.

I'll need more time to do a proper comparison between them.

Mike

I just discovered that my HE-500 came with the pleather pads installed and that the spare pair in the box are a different type (velour?) so I will have to try the spare pair.

You know, I think I may have never finished burning-in the HD650 before making a judgement about its tonal balance. Maybe it gets less bright.

I would agree based on my listening to the (not burned in?) HD650 that it doesn't give you a lot of information in the top octave, while the LCD-2 does have that potential when used with the right amp. I finally started feeling like I was getting some extension when I changed the 12AUY7 tube brand in my highly modified Hifiman EF5. I'm now using the Radiotechnique 12AU7.

Done. Velour pads on. I didn't pay attention to the sound, not yet.

By the way, if you want "non-fatiguing" I find the LCD-2 is about as non-fatiguing as anything. I've been indulging myself by cranking the volume for long sessions. Although I try not to do that often.

Mike