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Ultimate Ears UE 900 Discussion and Impressions Thread - Page 35

post #511 of 4277

Sorry if I missed it but was there mention of when UE900 was going to be released/available?

post #512 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

 I think it'd make more sense to beta test it first (with head-fiers of course) and find all the issues before you do a press release and start taking orders. It prevents these conversations completely and makes them look like they're a company that's got their act together.
 


All companies do this... It's not just UE. VModa for example has their VTX model out right now. Etymotic even announces before its tested. They all do it.
post #513 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


That would make me more of a pig than a guinea pig now wouldn't it :P... lol

 

Are any of you having issues with Motzilla firefox constantly crashing. This is getting quite old. Who knew I'd be going back to IE.... rolleyes.gif

post #514 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixthFall View Post

oh, yeah, ue900 thread.... Yeah, they look nice. ;P

post #515 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post


All companies do this... It's not just UE. VModa for example has their VTX model out right now. Etymotic even announces before its tested. They all do it.

I don't think all companies do this and it's still kind of backwards to solicit reviews of a work in progress. If they want to generate positive buzz, they should wait until they are 100% sure they have a winning product with no issues to worry about. Making your customers guinea pigs potentially wastes their time if they have to return it because of a build issue. Isn't this common sense or have I taken some crazy pills? 

post #516 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post


All companies do this... It's not just UE. VModa for example has their VTX model out right now. Etymotic even announces before its tested. They all do it.

I don't think all companies do this and it's still kind of backwards to solicit reviews of a work in progress. If they want to generate positive buzz, they should wait until they are 100% sure they have a winning product with no issues to worry about. Making your customers guinea pigs potentially wastes their time if they have to return it because of a build issue. Isn't this common sense or have I taken some crazy pills? 


What you ask for is impossible. We've with the deepest of internal testing, the product isn't ever put to the test until its given out to the public.
post #517 of 4277

Not impossible. Send a few sets out to experienced reviewers and ask them to sign a non-disclosure agreement (you can test them, but we want to work out the bugs - please help us and  a) you keep a set and b) you are among the first to review it when it's ready for the public) OR get a batch from the factory for the people who designed it or others involved in its development (you would think they'd try it out before anybody) Get feedback. Make any changes necessary. Test again. If no bugs are present, release to the public a fully formed, bug free, kick-ass product. Boom.

post #518 of 4277
I was a person who was sent a test pair. Actually, all reviewers are testers. They generally test a product that has yet to be released. In this case, what you stated is exactly what UE is doing. Except they didn't do a non-disclosure. What's wrong with that? Just because they didn't do non-disclosure, they deserve to be bashed? Please...

EDIT:

I normally don't post any impressions or experiences I have with products I get to review until after the review is posted (and all problems are dealt with). However, with the 900s, I thought I'd be nice and give inside info about my experience with the product as it came up. Unfortunately, this lead to uncalled for bashing of a product that:
a) wasn't even released yet
b) was a demo/pre-production unit

That said, I will never do this again because this defaming is not helpful towards anyone that is looking to research. Too many people have bashed Ultimate Ears for the 900 having poor build issues when they:
a) found the problem
b) fixed it
c) did it all before official release

If I had kept my mouth shut about every aspect of the phone, we would have never run into this, that said, as a reviewer, I will now wait until my review is released to state anything about any 'phone I have in my possession. This means, waiting 2+ weeks before a single comparison was done. Honestly, if I had waited until stuff was cleared up, none of this would have happened, and in the future, I will do that.

That said, this headphone review will be the last headphone I give information about before the review is released (just in case any problems arrise while testing a pre-release unit). I am all for saying something is negative, but only when it is. This is not negative, and will not even impact the build quality score of the 900s. This bashing is just that, it's uncalled for, and does no justice as the final produce (as I've stated numerous times) will not have this problem. I wish everyone would stop getting worked up about it.

See, this is the funny thing I find about this situation. If I had said it about the Etymotic, everyone would have gone on their way and said that the Etymotic will be fine (they'll fix it, no problem). If I had said it about Phonak (I actually did). They would have reacted the same way. Phonak already knows what's going on. But the second I said it about UE, everyone went nuts saying they would have problems with build quality out of the gate. They the build quality is now low because of these problems. Yet, I had similar issues with the Phonak and Etymotic. I actually talked publically about the Phonak problem. Heck, I even made a statement on the W4 thread about my W4R having a loose connector after disconnecting the cable and putting it back on (only the right had this problem). No one seemed to question the build quality of the headphones (even after another person confirmed with the same problem; this was actually released to the public at this time, not in pre-order) as much as they did hear. I honestly feel that you guys have put Ultimate Ears on a second standard (in comparison to Phonak and Westone). Double standards are unfair in my book.

2-3 isolated incidents don't mean it's a complete problem. However, the fact that the company will take a look, says loads. The fact that they figured out the problem and fixed it says loads. It doesn't mean that the company is bad, or the product is built poorly, or it isn't tested enough (the UE is still in testing stages regarding defects). it doesn't mean any of that. All it means is that there is a problem with the pre-production units. Guess what, none of you will order one. Why fret about it?

I know I've gone long enough with this, I'm going to stop now. But I ask each and every one of you, don't fret about the build. It's sturdy, yes, I do have a caveat or two about it (I won't tell what to discourage bashing at the moment), but it will show up in the review, and it will get deducted points for it. But don't fret about the cut out problems that were fixed by simply re-inserting/cleaning the cable. It's no reason to bash UE for doing something wrong, or anything of that nature. I really just find all of these posts unwarranted.
Edited by tinyman392 - 9/16/12 at 10:00pm
post #519 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

I was a person who was sent a test pair. Actually, all reviewers are testers. They generally test a product that has yet to be released. In this case, what you stated is exactly what UE is doing. Except they didn't do a non-disclosure. What's wrong with that? Just because they didn't do non-disclosure, they deserve to be bashed? Please...
EDIT:
I normally don't post any impressions or experiences I have with products I get to review until after the review is posted (and all problems are dealt with). However, with the 900s, I thought I'd be nice and give inside info about my experience with the product as it came up. Unfortunately, this lead to uncalled for bashing of a product that:
a) wasn't even released yet
b) was a demo/pre-production unit
That said, I will never do this again because this defaming is not helpful towards anyone that is looking to research. Too many people have bashed Ultimate Ears for the 900 having poor build issues when they:
a) found the problem
b) fixed it
c) did it all before official release
If I had kept my mouth shut about every aspect of the phone, we would have never run into this, that said, as a reviewer, I will now wait until my review is released to state anything about any 'phone I have in my possession. This means, waiting 2+ weeks before a single comparison was done. Honestly, if I had waited until stuff was cleared up, none of this would have happened, and in the future, I will do that.
That said, this headphone review will be the last headphone I give information about before the review is released (just in case any problems arrise while testing a pre-release unit). I am all for saying something is negative, but only when it is. This is not negative, and will not even impact the build quality score of the 900s. This bashing is just that, it's uncalled for, and does no justice as the final produce (as I've stated numerous times) will not have this problem. I wish everyone would stop getting worked up about it.
See, this is the funny thing I find about this situation. If I had said it about the Etymotic, everyone would have gone on their way and said that the Etymotic will be fine (they'll fix it, no problem). If I had said it about Phonak (I actually did). They would have reacted the same way. Phonak already knows what's going on. But the second I said it about UE, everyone went nuts saying they would have problems with build quality out of the gate. They the build quality is now low because of these problems. Yet, I had similar issues with the Phonak and Etymotic. I actually talked publically about the Phonak problem. Heck, I even made a statement on the W4 thread about my W4R having a loose connector after disconnecting the cable and putting it back on (only the right had this problem). No one seemed to question the build quality of the headphones (even after another person confirmed with the same problem; this was actually released to the public at this time, not in pre-order) as much as they did hear. I honestly feel that you guys have put Ultimate Ears on a second standard (in comparison to Phonak and Westone). Double standards are unfair in my book.
2-3 isolated incidents don't mean it's a complete problem. However, the fact that the company will take a look, says loads. The fact that they figured out the problem and fixed it says loads. It doesn't mean that the company is bad, or the product is built poorly, or it isn't tested enough (the UE is still in testing stages regarding defects). it doesn't mean any of that. All it means is that there is a problem with the pre-production units. Guess what, none of you will order one. Why fret about it?
I know I've gone long enough with this, I'm going to stop now. But I ask each and every one of you, don't fret about the build. It's sturdy, yes, I do have a caveat or two about it (I won't tell what to discourage bashing at the moment), but it will show up in the review, and it will get deducted points for it. But don't fret about the cut out problems that were fixed by simply re-inserting/cleaning the cable. It's no reason to bash UE for doing something wrong, or anything of that nature. I really just find all of these posts unwarranted.

 

The dilemma that you (and other "early reviewers") are finding yourself in, is one of the reasons why

- I don't give much about "reviews" on pre-production units

- I don't give much about "reviews" on units of undisclosed origin

- I very much prefer to wait for reviews from folks who shelled out their money on a retail unit, or got a loaner from a fellow head-fier who bought a retail unit

 

Just my 2c, no offense meant.

post #520 of 4277

I'm not trying to bash them in particular - obviously a lot of others do the same thing. It just seems silly for them to solicit reviews when they don't yet know if they need to fix something. UE isn't a bad company, it's just something that seems so odd. Maybe it's accepted practice - I really don't know. I say it's oddball odd. Maybe they have deadlines to meet and have to go about things a bit differently than they would otherwise. 

post #521 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post

I'm not trying to bash them in particular - obviously a lot of others do the same thing. It just seems silly for them to solicit reviews when they don't yet know if they need to fix something. UE isn't a bad company, it's just something that seems so odd. Maybe it's accepted practice - I really don't know. I say it's oddball odd. Maybe they have deadlines to meet and have to go about things a bit differently than they would otherwise. 


Ok, then the following companies are also silly:
-Westone
-Etymotic
-Phonak
-Moshi
-V-Moda (which released their first batch to Head-Fiers without real world testing yet)
-List goes on...
All of which have sent defective products to reviewers... Obviously the list includes some big names... All of these companies have released products to reviewers, and some to public, without giving a thorough real world test. Yes, lots of lab work has been done internally. However, the real world testing hasn't.

 

The fact of the matter is that it's impossible to know that a product will malfunction like this until it's tested in the real world.  Without that testing (they use reviewers, like a lot of other companies; look above), it'll never be known.  Yes, you can keep it internal and give it to people in the company internal, but the group would be too small and not diverse enough.  The idea of doing this is actually not uncommon.  A lot of people seem to like to just ignore it.  With UE, however, it seems that a lot of people want to put UE down for doing what everyone else (who we see as great companies) do.  It's a double standard still; it's unfair.  

 

EDIT:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

The dilemma that you (and other "early reviewers") are finding yourself in, is one of the reasons why

- I don't give much about "reviews" on pre-production units

- I don't give much about "reviews" on units of undisclosed origin

- I very much prefer to wait for reviews from folks who shelled out their money on a retail unit, or got a loaner from a fellow head-fier who bought a retail unit

 

Just my 2c, no offense meant.

 

 

No offense taken, I do want to reply to the post though:

  • Pre-production models are no different than production model.  They have the same drivers, tuning, etc.  The only difference is that they may contain bugs/defects that the final product never sees.  
  • I do state at the end of every review I post where I got the product from (iff I got it for free).  I actually state this twice.  I hate astroturfing as much as you do.
  • This goes both ways in my opinion.  I feel that if a person spends their own money on something, there is some sort of emotion attached to it.  It does give the rise to a love/hate review.  A free product rids of the hate part (half of the problem), but there is little to no emotional attachment allowing for a more unbiased review if they didn't pay for it.  Even the loaner didn't pay for the product to review either (whether from the company, or another person).  Their assessments should be equal.  

    Now, I'm not going to say there are some extremely 1-sided reviews on Head-Fi due to people who received the product for free or created a emotional attachment (for whatever reason), but it's less likely (IMO) as the attachment to the money spent seems to be much larger than the attachment to the money not spent.  A lot of people on Head-Fi get their products to review through these samples: |Joker| and ClieOS for example have both done it.

 

If you do have any problems (see a flaw, bias, etc.) in my reviews, I am all than willing to hear specifics (EG if you think I am creating some sort of bias) so I can work to fix it.  I am a firm believer that everyone has some sort of bias somewhere in the review.  If it's in there, they are probably ignorant to it.  I wouldn't doubt that I'm ignorant to some bias right now in any of my given reviews.  Just that you don't prefer them is fine (a lot of people prefer certain signatures in headphones, etc); but won't cause anything to change.


Edited by tinyman392 - 9/17/12 at 6:14am
post #522 of 4277

Already available to the public

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Sorry if I missed it but was there mention of when UE900 was going to be released/available?

post #523 of 4277

Who is selling them ?  I don't think they are available in Australia yet.  

post #524 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Already available to the public

 

Last checked, they are still in pre-order on the UE website... Which means not available yet.
post #525 of 4277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilly87 View Post

Already available to the public

 

Well, they're still on pre-order at every Logitech site I checked.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

No offense taken, I do want to reply to the post though:

 

Fair enough. I didn't mean your or anyone else's reviews in particular, I was just highlighting the dilemma that is all too obvious imo from your earlier post. Selected reviewers get pre-production models and are allowed to talk about them openly. Of course the manufacturer wants to stir up interest in the product, or else he would have required them to sign a non-disclosure agreement. But unfortunately word gets out about an issue with some test units and the whole thing starts to backfire. Now reviewers are caught in a situation like yours, trying to defend the manufacturer, going even as far as to report that the issue has been fixed, even though there are still no retail units out there to back that. Please correct me if I got it wrong.

 

Anyway, that's what I meant with dilemma, your obvious obligation to speak for Logitech/UE, when it was in fact their own decision (and risk) to hand out pre-production units and let people post their impressions.

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