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Ultimate Ears UE 900 Discussion and Impressions Thread - Page 68

post #1006 of 3549

Dear monkey, it is a lot of effort to compare two earphones to another. You have to do A-B comparisons over and over if you don't know the record by heart - and even then you cannot be 100% sure how it's supposed to sound. If you want to seriously compare two earphones, it takes a lot of time and also a lot of concentration (that is pure energy) to do this.

Then people ask to compare Toyota to Porsche. I don't even know where to start?! The interior, motor power, ... steering response???

 

Please be so kind and answer the question yourself if you're not too lazy. If you don't know both earphones closely, please STFU. Thanks.

post #1007 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

Dear monkey, it is a lot of effort to compare two earphones to another. You have to do A-B comparisons over and over if you don't know the record by heart - and even then you cannot be 100% sure how it's supposed to sound. If you want to seriously compare two earphones, it takes a lot of time and also a lot of concentration (that is pure energy) to do this.

Then people ask to compare Toyota to Porsche. I don't even know where to start?! The interior, motor power, ... steering response???

 

Please be so kind and answer the question yourself if you're not too lazy. If you don't know both earphones closely, please STFU. Thanks.

 

Whoa...  What is with this response...  Someone woke up on the wrong side of bed today...  A lot of this post makes little to no sense...  I'm not really following your logic.  Your statement basically reads, it's too much work and energy...  I'm a little confused by this response :p  Even further, you then go off and call him lazy in a snide way...  Really confused.

 

Comparing a Toyota to a Porsche... you can easily do that comparison.  As you stated, we start with a single spec, and work our way down.  You can compare a Toyota Camry to a Porsche 911 just like you can compare a Toyota GT86 (Scion FR-S in the US).  Yes, the Porsche will destroy the Camry in just about everything, but the GT86 might stand a chance depending on which model of Porsche.  It's comparable (though it might not be a fair comparison; EG one will destroy the other, no contest).

 

Just FYI, if you don't know both headphones closely, that's the entire point of a comparison...  So you know how they relate to one another... 

post #1008 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

Dear monkey, it is a lot of effort to compare two earphones to another. You have to do A-B comparisons over and over if you don't know the record by heart - and even then you cannot be 100% sure how it's supposed to sound. If you want to seriously compare two earphones, it takes a lot of time and also a lot of concentration (that is pure energy) to do this.

Then people ask to compare Toyota to Porsche. I don't even know where to start?! The interior, motor power, ... steering response???

 

Please be so kind and answer the question yourself if you're not too lazy. If you don't know both earphones closely, please STFU. Thanks.

 

Doesn't look like you and I are going to be friends.

post #1009 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post

Doesn't look like you and I are going to be friends.

Maybe it was just a bad glitch in the google translate? biggrin.gif
post #1010 of 3549

I'm his huckleberry.

 

:)

post #1011 of 3549

OK, very sorry about the last comment. I don't even remember posting that, it was before I woke up. :P I feel very bad for it and I hope you can accept my apologies!

 

It's just that I get a thousand PMs asking compare this to that and it not only takes a lot of time unless you write a single sentence like "this one has more bass", which also isn't helping anybody, but it's the fact that most people take it for a given that you help. After doing a thorough A with B comparison they just reply "ok, what about C?"

This is what bugged me before and the "So what?" triggered this!

This is the "what": The people that ask for comparisons will almost very likely never buy either A or B or even C. So if I take the time to help, I don't want anybody telling me 'so what, do it again and again and don't expect a thanks.' This is how I read the message and it probably wasn't intended like this. Sorry, my head triggered the wrong emotions.

 

Anyway, I compared BA vs dynamic with W4 vs FX700. It will be exactly the same as UE900 and FX700. So I will pass on this request. If any of you want to do it, be my guest. ;)

post #1012 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

OK, very sorry about the last comment. I don't even remember posting that, it was before I woke up. :P I feel very bad for it and I hope you can accept my apologies!

It's just that I get a thousand PMs asking compare this to that and it not only takes a lot of time unless you write a single sentence like "this one has more bass", which also isn't helping anybody, but it's the fact that most people take it for a given that you help. After doing a thorough A with B comparison they just reply "ok, what about C?"

This is what bugged me before and the "So what?" triggered this!
This is the "what": The people that ask for comparisons will almost very likely never buy either A or B or even C. So if I take the time to help, I don't want anybody telling me 'so what, do it again and again and don't expect a thanks.' This is how I read the message and it probably wasn't intended like this. Sorry, my head triggered the wrong emotions.

Anyway, I compared BA vs dynamic with W4 vs FX700. It will be exactly the same as UE900 and FX700. So I will pass on this request. If any of you want to do it, be my guest. wink.gif

Did you just imply that the W4 is the same as the UE 900?!
post #1013 of 3549

If you compare to the FX700, then yes, they will be very similar in description. Dry, relaxed, better control, worse timbre, ...

post #1014 of 3549

Logitech Ultimate Ears 900 vs Heir Audio 4.Ai - Part 1

 

I am going to do two parts of this comparison; the stock comparison and then I will make a mod on the UE900 and re compare. So here is part 1:

 

These are two IEMs that where going to have to meet at one point and I have been looking forward very much to making this comparison. I was the first to review the Heir Audio 4.Ai and it I said it was the best universal IEM I have yet to come across, over its life it has had its ups and downs but there is no denying that the majority of users have agreed that it is amazing. The UE900 was released quickly after the Heir and also featured 4 balanced armature drivers and a price tag of $400. The opinions of the UE900 equally seem to be good with most saying these are both better than the Westone 4 and many over universals and the UE900 also received highly praised reviews from the likes of |joker| on head fi and review websites like Heafonia. This really did look like it was going to be a clash of the titans and I was really excited when I finally got my UE900s confirmed.

 

As packages go they are two different things but I do think that the UE900 wins for consumers. The Heir is your typical CIEM package with some tips added and an awesome tank like Otterbox case. The UE900 comes with everything from airplane attenuators that is great as an accessory for a few reasons (it is an impedance and adapter, very handy), a luxurious travel case and pouch, huge range of tips including foams and lastly a spare cable. These have one cable with a 3-button microphone and I think the two included cables wins it here.

 

They both do really have awesome designs and while I am sure most of you, like me wood take the 4.Ai with its beautiful burl, I really do like how the UE900 look with their shocking blue housings and metallic faceplates. The Build quality of the two is similar with acrylic shells and faceplates and they both use nice cables but I guess I do prefer the Westone pins of the 4.Ai over the UE900s cable connector but both fairly faultless here.

 

Comfort is in my experiences better on the 4.Ai as it is more ergonomic in respect to your ear and the smaller but thicker UE900 digs in to my ear causing slight pain. Both are extremely small thinking they have four drivers and I am sure neither will cause to many problems here. Isolation on both is rather impressive although I think I insert the 4.Ai a tad deeper resulting in slightly better isolation.

 

So let us get to the sound quality and of course the most important bit. I will mention that my UE900 are stock, I have not made any mods to them like close up the pinhole sound bore although apparently this happens with use. Let us start with the soundstage size; I think the Heir is slightly more airy but they are both equally large with nice sense of depth to them. However I think the imaging, which is one of favourite properties of the 4.Ai, cannot be matched by the UE900, you really can pin point what is happening where.

 

Bass I think is the real separating point of the two IEMs. The UE900 instantly has a noticeable bigger bass impact and better extension, actually providing you with some rumble and nice texture, the 4.Ai does not really have any rumble but still has some nice sub-bass texture before it rolls off, before the UE900. Mid-bass is bigger and slower on the UE900 with a bigger boost than the 4.Ai has which is only a small one. The 4.Ai has amazing bass; it is fast, refined and just boosted enough to satisfy needs if your someone who does not think something more neutral like an Etymotic. The UE900 has too much mid-bass and it just does not have the details that the 4.Ai have or the speed.

 

Low mids are amazing on the 4.Ai, so clear with the smallest taint of warmth and amazing honesty. The UE900 is veiled from the mid-bass in this region and sound too warm and a bit blurred as well as lacking a bit in presence. It makes male vocals and low mid timbre just sound vacant and lifeless in comparison to the 4.Ai that runs away with the prize. High mids on the other hand are clearly more present on the UE900 and sound airier and smoother but they do not have the rawness or detail that the 4.Ai offer in comparison.

 

Highs are more present and detailed on the 4.Ai and have more sparkle and a nicer sparkle that is less splashy. Both have very good trebles and are confident in this are but just for things like detail, the 4.Ai takes it and they both extend beautifully although graphs suggest that the UE900 goes further, I think the 4.Ai sound airier.

 

In all honesty I think the two are not even that close (they are vey close of course but I thought it would be closer, just in terms of speed and detail), on my IEM round up you may know that I gave the 4.Ai a 9.2 in SQ, PFE 232 a 9.1, Sony MDR EX1000 a 9 and I will be giving the UE900 a 8.9 for stock sound. Overall I listen to the UE900 an just want to tear it out and replace it with my Heir, I really think that Heir Audio have done a much better job with 4 drivers than Logitech and in all honesty will not be able to recommend the UE900 because I think the 4.Ai is that much better, I really do and I was hoping that the UE900 was going to be on the same levels, I really did. Now I am not saying it is wrong that anyone likes the UE900, they are a great IEM, in the top few that I have heard but they are as far as I care, beaten out by the 4.Ai. Now bring on the mod.

 

Pictures:

These should help you distinguish the size difference of the two. They are both actually rather different in shape and i was expecting them to be a lot closer than they were. they are both small and well designed however.

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

700

 

700

post #1015 of 3549

Swim, how long did you personally use the UE 900 for (I'm not talking about running the drivers to burn in; even though it wouldn't be a bad idea to do)?  As stated, they will change drastically over time with the low end and lower-mids...  Essentially, the mid-bass veiling goes away with time as the bass itself reduces drastically with use.  It may not happen within the first three days, especially if you aren't using them daily for a couple hours (per day).  Even this may not be enough to fill in the pinhole nozzle.  The nozzle does get naturally filled with time, it's inevitable. This is not a mod, it happens naturally over time unfortunately as human secretions will fill this nozzle over time. 

post #1016 of 3549

He swim, can you clarify a few things here...  Below is a quote from your comparison...

 

Quote:

Bass I think is the real separating point of the two IEMs. The UE900 instantly has a noticeable bigger bass impact and better extension, actually providing you with some rumble and nice texture, the 4.Ai does not really have any rumble but still has some nice sub-bass texture before it rolls off, before the UE900 (1). Mid-bass is bigger and slower on the UE900 with a bigger boost than the 4.Ai has which is only a small one. The 4.Ai has amazing bass(2a); it is fast, refined and just boosted enough to satisfy needs if your someone who does not think something more neutral like an Etymotic (2b). The UE900 has too much mid-bass and it just does not have the details that the 4.Ai have or the speed (3).

 

Low mids are amazing on the 4.Ai, so clear with the smallest taint of warmth and amazing honesty. The UE900 is veiled from the mid-bass in this region and sound too warm and a bit blurred as well as lacking a bit in presence. It makes male vocals and low mid timbre just sound vacant and lifeless in comparison to the 4.Ai that runs away with the prize (6). High mids on the other hand are clearly more present on the UE900 and sound airier and smoother but they do not have the rawness or detail that the 4.Ai offer in comparison.

 

Highs are more present and detailed on the 4.Ai and have more sparkle and a nicer sparkle that is less splashy (8). Both have very good trebles and are confident in this are but just for things like detail, the 4.Ai takes it and they both extend beautifully although graphs suggest that the UE900 goes further, I think the 4.Ai sound airier (9).

 

This is what I’m getting from the reading…  Can you answer these?  They seem to contradict and don’t work out that well...

  • (1) states that the bass on the UE900 has better extension and impact providing rumble (detail) and texture (even further detail) that the 4.Ai don’t offer.  (3) states that the 4.Ai has more detailing, yet can’t match the detailing in the 900 as stated in (1).
  • Not enough proof for (2a) is given. You stated no real objective data besides it being closer to neutral (which is in a way, preference).  No ideas on punch, impact, texture, or even body size that make it better (remember, musical properties like you said in the 4.Ai thread).  You actually state the opposite saying that punch and texturing are better with the UE 900 before.  Outside the speed (2b), what more does the 4.Ai do better than the 900? You also say it’s refined, but honestly, we have no clue what that means :p It’s not defined in the dictionary.  Can you provide your definition of refined (2b)? 
  • Unless I’m mistaken, sparkle and splash are synonyms.  They essentially mean the same thing.  (8) states that the 4.Ai have more sparkle, and nicer sparkle but also less sparkle (remember, splash / sparkle are synonymous so a direct substation is valid).  Can you please provide the difference between splash and sparkle?
  • Airy is defined in the glossary as “Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. Good reproduction of high frequency reflections. High frequency response extends to 15 or 20 kHz.”  You state in (9) that objectively, the UE 900s extend further.  But the one that doesn’t extend as far (they both have response up to 20 kHz) sounds more airy.  This is a complete contradiction of the definition. 

 

Other questions. 

  • Which does female vocals better?  
  • Which has the stronger lower-highs (snare drums are generally in this area).  Presence, extension, etc are all important here. 
  • You really avoid talking about the highs, why is this?  Like, you describe the lows in great detail, the mids in decent detail (but less detailed than the lows, could give more detail), but then give 3 measly sentences about the highs… 

 

I don't want to bring this up, the parts that you avoid talking about, whether unconsciously or consciously have been the weak points of the 4.Ai (upper mids, lower highs).  Specifically leaving out lower-highs as a whole (dip) and female vocals entirely but talking about male vocals.

 

Based on what I’ve read, reducing the fluff, I get the following out of the with a bullet point list comparison:

 

Bass

  • The UE 900 do better in regards to sub-bass texturing
  • The UE 900 has a larger body
  • The UE 900 has a stronger impact
  • The 4.Ai has a tighter punch
  • The 4.Ai is much faster in the low end.

Mids

  • The UE 900 is veiled (I disagree with that, but with your comparison, it stands)
  • The 4.Ai does better low-mid detailing
  • The UE 900 is clearer
  • The 4.Ai does male vocals better
  • No word on female vocals

Highs

  • 4.Ai has more detailing in the upper highs.
  • The ultrasonic areas of the UE 900 are more present objectively, but subjectively, it’s the other way around.
  • No information is given regarding the lower highs.

 

Essentially, a bullet-point view shows that the UE 900 destroys on bass, the UE 900 is slightly behind in the midrange (due to veil).  Lots of the mids are still left out.  There is barely any information about the highs. The list itself also shows that the "no-contest" you state is a contest.  The UE 900 do very strongly in bass, and trade off the torch in the mids.  Next to no information is given for the tie-breaking highs. 

 

There is a lot that I don't agree with in your description regarding the UE 900.  The two main ones would be the huge mid-bass that you say the 900 has, the second being the vacant and lifeless male vocals.  I don't hear this mid-bass hump you speak of (others don't either), nor this veiling caused by it.  Vocals are a personal thing, I would not call them lifeless, they are actually very sweet, but lack lushness. 


Edited by tinyman392 - 11/18/12 at 11:22am
post #1017 of 3549

Any news if these will be on sales this B.F, U.E has discounted the Triplefi 10, so I wonder what amazon will have sale this year. 

post #1018 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inear View Post

Any news if these will be on sales this B.F, U.E has discounted the Triplefi 10, so I wonder what amazon will have sale this year. 

 

UE dropped the price of the TF10 about 4 years after it was released...  I wouldn't expect huge sales this year (you may get some sales, but nothing like 55-75% off like we got with the TF10).

post #1019 of 3549

Why did UE bother to put a nozzle there if it was inevitable it will end up blocked in the long term ? confused.gif Does the headphone carries instructions/tools to keep it unblocked?

post #1020 of 3549
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenpunk View Post

Why did UE bother to put a nozzle there if it was inevitable it will end up blocked in the long term ? confused.gif Does the headphone carries instructions/tools to keep it unblocked?

 

The nozzle itself was a tuning mechanism.  There are two ways to change a resonance frequency of a headphone...  change the width of the nozzle, change the length of the nozzle. If I'm not mistaken, UE did both.  Additionally, the thinner nozzle is used to control the lows as well. 

 

UE does not include any tools to clear out the nozzle.  I don't know if they were expecting it to be blocked or not.  If they weren't, it's a huge coincidence that it brings the bass to an almost neutrally flat state. 

 

Oh yeah, one more note to Swimsonny.  This is regarding the physical mod.  If you do decide to plug the small nozzle, please for the love of god, make sure that the pin, needle, etc that you use get's suctioned in somehow...  No joking, if not, you risk a chance of it falling out while you pull out the IEM (assuming you have a strong seal).  And having tiny needles, pins, etc in your ear aren't so fun to pull out without pricking your middle ear :p


Edited by tinyman392 - 11/18/12 at 11:38am
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