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post #286 of 403
9/8/12 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post

 

Ugh! What a frightful, ugly mess!

 

se

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post #287 of 403
9/8/12 at 1:55pm
From what I've gathered from what he's told us about the system, it appears that the people who installed the speaker system was a different company than the people who installed the equalizer. I'm guessing that the EQ just wasn't set properly. A "veil over the sound" indicates that they've gone for some "pseudo-analogue" sort of colored response curve and haven't really balanced the response to the room the way they should have. Even high end stereo installers don't know what they're doing when it comes to equalization. I've found that home theater techs are much better than high end audio guys for that.

Edit: After seeing the picture, I'm letting the EQ company off the hook. With all the speaker placement issues there, EQ would be hopeless. The balance would be radically different from just about any position in the room.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 2:29pm
post #288 of 403
9/8/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

Ugh! What a frightful, ugly mess!

 

se

 

Well it's missing the zen factor there, but I like the little bear on the upper right hand corner biggrin.gif

post #289 of 403
9/8/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

Ugh! What a frightful, ugly mess

Good lord! Those speakers are WAY too tall for that space. From the listening position, the bass would be floating at ear level and the mids and highs would be flying over the head and bouncing back off the back wall. You're right. That is a mess. That is either the wrong system for that room or the wrong room for that system... Take your pick.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 2:05pm
post #290 of 403
9/8/12 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

Well it's missing the zen factor there, but I like the little bear on the upper right hand corner biggrin.gif

 

You may be onto something...

 

Methinks some of the mess in the middle needs be replaced with a larger bear.  Might have some better acoustic properties too.  cool.gif

post #291 of 403
9/8/12 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post

It is near field listening for sure. Speaker spread is 6-7 ft. Listening chair is about 9 ft.
It is 3 dimensional like nothing I've heard before. Scary, looking behind you moments....

The distance between the speakers is correct, and the messy rack in the middle is fine. But the reason the sound seems to be coming from behind sometimes is because the tweeters are so high they're coupling with the roof and throwing the sound over the listener's head and bouncing back down from behind at the junction of the rear wall and ceiling. If those speakers can go sideways instead of stacking so high, they would sound MUCH better. The bass speakers should be close to the floor to couple with the floor ad flow the low frequencies throughout the room, and midrange and treble should be as close to ear level as possible.

Also, I'm suspecting it isn't possible because the room is just too small, but the speakers should sit either 1/3 or 1/5 into the room, not up close to the wall like that. There's a whole lot of room treatment behind them that probably wouldn't be necessary if they wee freestanding the way they were designed to bel The listening chair should be as far from the speakers as it is from the back wall. That room is just too small. No wonder they had to do all that room treatment. Without that, the sound would bounce off the walls and ceiling like crazy. I bet it's doing that anyway.

A high end system deserves a high end room, no matter what the wife says. Shoving all that equipment into a basement room like that is a waste.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 2:27pm
post #292 of 403
9/8/12 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

The distance between the speakers is correct, and the messy rack in the middle is fine. But the reason the sound seems to be coming from behind sometimes is because the tweeters are so high they're coupling with the roof and throwing the sound over the listener's head and bouncing back down from behind at the junction of the rear wall and ceiling. If those speakers can go sideways instead of stacking so high, they would sound MUCH better. The bass speakers should be close to the floor to couple with the floor ad flow the low frequencies throughout the room, and midrange and treble should be as close to ear level as possible.
Also, I'm suspecting it isn't possible because the room is just too small, but the speakers should sit either 1/3 or 1/5 into the room, not up close to the wall like that. There's a whole lot of room treatment behind them that probably wouldn't be necessary if they wee freestanding the way they were designed to bel The listening chair should be as far from the speakers as it is from the back wall. That room is just too small. No wonder they had to do all that room treatment. Without that, the sound would bounce off the walls and ceiling like crazy. I bet it's doing that anyway.
A high end system deserves a high end room, no matter what the wife says. Shoving all that equipment into a basement room like that is a waste.

LOL! Geez bs, you just can't get your arms around a custom install by maybe the top speaker manufacturer in the world.

PS- there is no wife.
post #293 of 403
9/8/12 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

From what I've gathered from what he's told us about the system, it appears that the people who installed the speaker system was a different company than the people who installed the equalizer. I'm guessing that the EQ just wasn't set properly. A "veil over the sound" indicates that they've gone for some "pseudo-analogue" sort of colored response curve and haven't really balanced the response to the room the way they should have. Even high end stereo installers don't know what they're doing when it comes to equalization. I've found that home theater techs are much better than high end audio guys for that.
Edit: After seeing the picture, I'm letting the EQ company off the hook. With all the speaker placement issues there, EQ would be hopeless. The balance would be radically different from just about any position in the room.

LOL!
post #294 of 403
9/8/12 at 5:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post


LOL! Geez bs, you just can't get your arms around a custom install by maybe the top speaker manufacturer in the world.
 

 

*cough*

 

se

post #295 of 403
9/8/12 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

The distance between the speakers is correct, and the messy rack in the middle is fine. But the reason the sound seems to be coming from behind sometimes is because the tweeters are so high they're coupling with the roof and throwing the sound over the listener's head and bouncing back down from behind at the junction of the rear wall and ceiling. If those speakers can go sideways instead of stacking so high, they would sound MUCH better. The bass speakers should be close to the floor to couple with the floor ad flow the low frequencies throughout the room, and midrange and treble should be as close to ear level as possible.
Also, I'm suspecting it isn't possible because the room is just too small, but the speakers should sit either 1/3 or 1/5 into the room, not up close to the wall like that. There's a whole lot of room treatment behind them that probably wouldn't be necessary if they wee freestanding the way they were designed to bel The listening chair should be as far from the speakers as it is from the back wall. That room is just too small. No wonder they had to do all that room treatment. Without that, the sound would bounce off the walls and ceiling like crazy. I bet it's doing that anyway.
A high end system deserves a high end room, no matter what the wife says. Shoving all that equipment into a basement room like that is a waste.



With these Wilson's, the driver arrangement is perfected for that listening height. We don't need to stack on their sides as you say.......I think Wilson figured that one out on their 150k model....
the angles of the the drivers are measured with a laser by the installer.

The bass drivers are the exact proper distance to the floor and are coupled with the Wilson puppy paw feet. The speakers weigh 800lbs.


Next-! High end speakers do this thing called imaging and sound staging. The multi layered presentation is not reflected sound, but true 3 dimensional sound staging. Anyone who has experience with just about any Wilson model knows what I'm saying.

I would suggest you listen to a pair one day.
post #296 of 403
9/8/12 at 8:33pm
Those speakers are designed for a much larger room and to be listened to from further away. The problem isn't the speakers, it's the room. The installers can't do anything about that except to put panels all over the place to stop the bouncing sound as much as they can. But that room just isn't suited for that kind of equipment. Laying the bass drivers on their sides would help a lot, but those speakers still are too big for that space. Maybe when he moves next he can get a room to fit his stereo. If he doesn't have a wife, there's hope.

As for sound stage, he would get a much better spread if the room was wider. Those speakers look like they'd couple with not just the back wall, but the side walls and ceiling too. That would wreak havok with soundstage. He could get a lot more out of that system with the proper space.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 8:34pm
post #297 of 403
9/8/12 at 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post

High end speakers do this thing called imaging and sound staging. The multi layered presentation is not reflected sound, but true 3 dimensional sound staging. Anyone who has experience with just about any Wilson model knows what I'm saying.
I would suggest you listen to a pair one day.

 

As I said before, I've listened to them. Many many speakers do this - even before you get into the high end (in which Wilson's are the bottom end of the high end). And *if* you are hearing sound that appears to be coming from behind you (unless in you are in 5.1 or 7.1 set up), that is room reflection, not sound stage. 

 

Don't get too into hero worship on Wilson or whomever - even the ultra high end people make mistakes, and are limited by the physical constraints of space and the brain's own special brand of wonkiness. 


Edited by liamstrain - 9/8/12 at 9:30pm
post #298 of 403
9/8/12 at 9:56pm
The room and equalization are vitally important. Without that, even the best speakers sound just sorta good. And with it, sorta good speakers can sound utterly amazing.
post #299 of 403
9/8/12 at 11:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Edit: After seeing the picture, I'm letting the EQ company off the hook. With all the speaker placement issues there, EQ would be hopeless. The balance would be radically different from just about any position in the room.

Bigshot, that may matter to you, but it is a non starter with that listener, and with me. Some of us consider it dim to sit ourselves down for an intense session of rapt musical enjoyment and be anywhere other than the sweet spot. We don't do casual listening and don't walk around the room multitasking. We just listen. A rat's ass is more important to us than what it sounds like anywhere else in the room. Btw, people walking around doing chores or attending to party guests don't even need hifi; it's just background music then.

What was the esoteric, mysterious clue? A single chair in the laser aimed sweet spot. Is the room way too small for optimum performance? Yes. Does the sound anywhere but in the head position in the chair matter? No.

When JBL does a Synthesis install with a setup including three Everest IIs, they do it the way you want it done. First, they ask where you are going to sit.
Edited by Clarkmc2 - 9/8/12 at 11:23pm
post #300 of 403
9/8/12 at 11:25pm
Don't you listen to music with friends? Or do they sit on your lap?

It isn't impossible to have a sweet spot and have decent sound throughout the room. But in that particular photo, even te sweet spot isn't the sweet spot because the mids and trebles are six feet in the air. You'd need a chair on stilts and a ceiling twice that high to get a sweet spot.

Again it isn't the EQ guy's fault because that system in that room is like an elephant in a suitcase.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 11:34pm
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