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post #271 of 403
9/8/12 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

@jvandyk: I think I found a set of articles that may interest you (and it is specific to Wilson Audio Alexandria's). It mentions that room acoustic treatment and equalization (WATCH Dog 2) is a much better investment than upgrading cables. It places importance to proper characterization of a room, if you are serious about audio. Really hope you find it useful (I did):

Main: http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=258:music-vault-details&catid=32:letters&Itemid=47

Part I: http://www.ultraaudio.com/twbas/twbas_20050915.htm

Part II: 
http://www.ultraaudio.com/twbas/twbas_20051215.htm
*paragraph 6: "In this arrangement I would be using my subwoofer to reproduce all bass frequencies below 38Hz. I could then employ my Wilson Audio Specialties WATCH Dog 2 subwoofer’s parametric equalizer to notch out the room mode."


Part III: http://www.ultraaudio.com/twbas/twbas_20060215.htm
*paragraph 2: "The Music Vault was simply the most stunning sound-reproduction upgrade I’d ever experienced -- far greater than any single component change I’ve made to my system through the years. This includes the significant move to my current reference loudspeaker, the Wilson Audio Specialties Alexandria X-2, from my previous reference, Wilson’s X-1 Grand SLAMM Series 3."

*paragraph 4: "It is the acoustic output of a system in a real room that is by far the most critical determinant of sound quality,
 
not 
individual electronic components and cables and their "sonic signatures."

*paragraph 21: "
The way I am using my Wilson Audio WATCH Dog Series 2 subwoofer for active bass-mode cancellation to flatten a low-frequency mode (explained in 
Part Two
 of this series) is a prime example of a technique that could be realistically applied only after I’d looked at measurements and acoustical modeling of the room."


Also, regarding Wilson Audio in general, while very good speakers, some of their offerings like the Wilson WATT Series 3, are described as a bit bass lean and bright:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-watt-series-3-puppy-2-loudspeaker-measurements
Point being, not such thing as an ideal/perfect speaker AFAIK (including Wilson Audio.)

Ultraaudio..they've been around high end audio for a long time. That long haired guy...forgotten his name.

You know, like I said earlier, my buddies Alexandria system does have a very expensive eq as an option. It was not part of what Wilson recommended when they did the setup. Both he and I think the eq veils the sound a bit when switched in..of course, he could like to use it for crappy recordings now and then. As for Watt puppies, they have sounded different as they've been updated. Version 3 is 6 generations ago. I wouldn't expect any speaker to be perfect..Alexandria's or anything else.

You did link up more subwoofer info, which of course means eq is almost mandatory. Good stuff though.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #272 of 403
9/8/12 at 11:19am
The purpose of equalization isn't to fix crappy recordings. It's to correct for imbalances caused by the combination of speaker and room. You can drop the most balanced speaker in the world into a room, even an acoustically good one, and response imbalances will occur. Your friend is using equalization for the wrong purpose. I suspect that the person who sold it to him didn't bother to calibrate it properly. That's why it's messing up the response instead of improving it.

Spending a lot of money and just hoping that the people you hire to put your system together properly rarely works. Equipment retailers and installers have their own agendas. If you want great sound at any price point you have to be proactive and learn how to use and calibrate your equipment for optimal performance. With speakers, it's particularly important, because good speakers that have been properly balanced will sound much better than even the most expensive ones straight out of the box.
post #273 of 403
9/8/12 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

The purpose of equalization isn't to fix crappy recordings. It's to correct for imbalances caused by the combination of speaker and room. You can drop the most balanced speaker in the world into a room, even an acoustically good one, and response imbalances will occur. Your friend is using equalization for the wrong purpose. I suspect that the person who sold it to him didn't bother to calibrate it properly. That's why it's messing up the response instead of improving it.
Spending a lot of money and just hoping that the people you hire to put your system together properly rarely works. Equipment retailers and installers have their own agendas. If you want great sound at any price point you have to be proactive and learn how to use and calibrate your equipment for optimal performance. With speakers, it's particularly important, because good speakers that have been properly balanced will sound much better than even the most expensive ones straight out of the box.

Nah BS. Wilson did a good job setting up the Alexandria's. They were extremely happy with the results. The eq put into the circuit, on flat settings, veiled the sound.

Tone controls not needed. Sorry.
post #274 of 403
9/8/12 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post


Nah BS. Wilson did a good job setting up the Alexandria's. They were extremely happy with the results. The eq put into the circuit, on flat settings, veiled the sound.
Tone controls not needed. Sorry.

 

What where the dimensions of the room and what were the materials used to damped sound reflections? Where measurements offered to corroborate room optimization?

 

Also, depending on the room, flat settings may not yield flat frequency response. Did Wilson offered suggestions for cable interconnects?


Edited by ultrabike - 9/8/12 at 11:37am
post #275 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

What where the dimensions of the room and what were the materials used to damped sound reflections? Where measurements offered to corroborate room optimization?

Also, depending on the room, flat settings may not yield flat frequency response. Did Wilson offered suggestions for cable interconnects?

I wish I could upload a pic. It is a cost no object room. There are many room treatments in all directions. He uses Nordost Valhalla start to finish. Amps are the new Pass Labs 160 mono blocks. 3 chassis Pass pre amp and phono preamp. Table is that new clear audio statement rig with a couple of tone arms. Shelter cart. By far the best sound I heard there was his reel to reel master dupes. The dig rig is the Ps audio perfect wave rig. He does use the eq sometimes, for live recordings (boots).
post #276 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post


I wish I could upload a pic. It is a cost no object room. There are many room treatments in all directions. He uses Nordost Valhalla start to finish. Amps are the new Pass Labs 160 mono blocks. 3 chassis Pass pre amp and phono preamp. Table is that new clear audio statement rig with a couple of tone arms. Shelter cart. By far the best sound I heard there was his reel to reel master dupes. The dig rig is the Ps audio perfect wave rig. He does use the eq sometimes, for live recordings (boots).

I would be all for pics biggrin.gif

 

Probably here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/344355/pictures-of-your-high-end-system


Edited by ultrabike - 9/8/12 at 12:23pm
post #277 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:23pm
"Cost is no object" doesn't automatically get you great sound. Good equipment *properly adjusted* does. There is no "one size fits all" solution that you can just drop into a room and it works. Money doesn't buy great sound either. Smart application of acoustic techniques does, and equalization is right at the top of that list for speaker systems. Sorry if you don't want to hear that.

Audiophiles sometimes turn over the responsibilities for properly adjusting and maintaining their equipment to high end audio dealers. That is almost always a mistake. It's like having a Ferrari and getting someone else to drive it or you. Experimentation, adjustment and tweaking the response to fit your listening room are part of the hobby. If you don't want to do that yourself, that's fine. But you aren't going to get the most out of your equipment without doing that.
Edited by bigshot - 9/8/12 at 12:27pm
post #278 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

"Cost is no object" doesn't automatically get you great sound. Good equipment *properly adjusted* does. There is no "one size fits all" solution that you can just drop into a room and it works. Money doesn't buy great sound. Smart application of acoustic techniques does, and equalization is right at the top of that list for speaker systems. Sorry if you don't want to hear that.

 

It probably is a custom solutions like yours big... Dunno... And yes, money doesn't always bring you the best.

post #279 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post


He uses Nordost Valhalla start to finish. 

 

Ah - there's your problem. Bad cables. 

 

 

;)

post #280 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

I would be all for pics biggrin.gif

 

Probably here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/344355/pictures-of-your-high-end-system

post #281 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:38pm

Nice listening room - those alexandrias almost look too big for the space. Probably sounds glorious though. 

 

But really? Cable elevators too? 

 

Give me a few minutes, I'll come up with some other "must have" accessory to sell him. ;)

post #282 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:40pm

Looks nice and definitive TOTL components, but it seems kind of crowded. Any way to move sources and equipment away from the speakers. Not sure about speaker separation either...
 

post #283 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post

Nice listening room - those alexandrias almost look too big for the space. Probably sounds glorious though. 

But really? Cable elevators too? 

Give me a few minutes, I'll come up with some other "must have" accessory to sell him. wink.gif
Yeah. The shops love him. He had the Watt 8s before. This pic is a little older..still running the Siltech prior to the Nordost. And the older Pass amps. I think he's in for about 250k ballpark on everything. Hey, he's got the dough and he loves it. More power too him.
post #284 of 403
9/8/12 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrabike View Post

Looks nice and definitive TOTL components, but it seems kind of crowded. Any way to move sources and equipment away from the speakers. Not sure about speaker separation either...

 
It is near field listening for sure. Speaker spread is 6-7 ft. Listening chair is about 9 ft.
It is 3 dimensional like nothing I've heard before. Scary, looking behind you moments....
post #285 of 403
9/8/12 at 1:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvandyk View Post


Nah BS. Wilson did a good job setting up the Alexandria's. They were extremely happy with the results. The eq put into the circuit, on flat settings, veiled the sound.
Tone controls not needed. Sorry.

I don't think flat EQ veil the sound as they don't attenuate treble. IME Flat EQ can be just flat depending on listening volume. Hate to admit it but I like a little bass and treble boost as well. I have a Yamaha EQ that can also emulate different listening room sound. The plain flat EQ setting gets very little use.

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