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Tralucent Audio 1Plus2 IEM Impressions Thread - Page 113

post #1681 of 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post

I've gone through 7 pages and jumped to Mython's summary post on introduction. I don't have time to sift through all this with a crying baby on my lap just to see what I've said wrong. But from what I've come across so far in the video of crossovers, and Bilavideo has said so far about crossovers in the first 7 pages, I can't see where my high level concept is wrong in what crossovers are for.

 

Think I'll just wait for your summarised thread.

 

I owe you guys an apology; lately, I've been running around half-annoyed, and I think I just ran out of patience in that single moment. I didn't mean to single you guys out. However, as I mentioned, crossover implementation with BAs and/or dynamic drivers is very complex, and every single component, whether it be the driver itself (which already has four different factory options for "tuning", including three damping options and a back-venting option, as well as different coil impedances), the material of the sound tubing (for conventional CIEMs, they use hearing aid tubing, which is available in different densities of silicone, and they will decay acoustic energy as a linear function of distance from the driver spout), the value of the acoustic (physical) damper, the diameter of the tubing, the exit bore diameter with respect to the sound tubing diameter (horn effects), the list goes on and on. Also, because of the distortion characteristics of BAs, traditional LC low-pass circuits are difficult to implement in crossovers, since conventionally-wound inductors will blow up the distortion to unacceptable levels. Thus, the design of the crossover network itself is not as straightforward as it is in loudspeakers, and traditionally only uses SMD resistors and capacitors, which is limiting if you want to build a phase-coherent crossover at the SPLs that you want. You can start to get the picture about how easy it is to misattribute what one is hearing with how something is "tuned", so that's why I ventured to say that talking about crossovers is a bit of a moot point, unless people really, truly understand it. I can't even say I understand it fully; I was lucky to have attended an extremely rigorous engineering-oriented school, yet I studied neuroscience there, and now I have addition medical knowledge as well; this education helped me more quickly understand the applications of electroacoustic engineering in this small, but specific field of multi-driver IEMs. At the same time, while IEM design doesn't require complete and absolute command of any single subject, it is equal parts physics, neuroscience, material science, and electrical engineering.

 

In the past I've been guilty of spewing out crazy theories and guesses, but lately, I've begun to keep those thoughts to myself, because I find that they just confuse others more than they help.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

It's a lot more complicated in an IEM where tube length can offer acoustic resistace along with dedicated filters. Crossovers can be a mix of acoustic and electrical resistance. There are also much less common series networks.

 

For instance, most versions of twfk have a treble peak and mid dip. If you resist the treble peak the dip can become more severe. Running a dynamic driver in parallel with a normal mid bump and (not so) simply limiting it's highs could allow you to make the system nicely linear and still fast where needed. TWFKs also get used as purely double high or double mid frequency units so what's actually happening here is any body's guess unless we're told or look for ourselves. Could be a 1.5 way, 2 way, 2.5 way, 3 way or even crossoverless and why tomscy is not wasting time speculating. Have we discussed venting.wink_face.gif Multi driver anything is as much art as science. Makes you wonder how many iterations Dale played with before he got it to sing. Proof is in the result which seems really good.

 

Thanks for helping out. :-)


Edited by tomscy2000 - 2/11/13 at 10:14am
post #1682 of 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Thanks for helping out. :-)

I figured you were just a bit off today. LOL

I was actually quite suprised when I saw an inductor on a IEM crossover but surface mount bits are making everything smaller. I would still worry about saturation on a 1st order but could see it being fine in a 2nd order highpass after the cap.

post #1683 of 5600
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Lots of blending as crossovers, if present, tend to be 1st order in IEMs so lots of having a knack and being able to hear where you're going. It's not just measurements and calculations though they are often a starting point. I don't think the 1+2 uses any tubes and could be designed with no acoustic filters as well. It was a generality. The dual driver twfk has a single shared output so any acoustic adjustment will always affect both.


When you mention acoustic filters are you talking about the dampening factor? If so they do have material inside the IEM for dampening. The IEM is pretty much completely filled.

post #1684 of 5600

stuff between a driver's acoustic output and your ear.


Edited by goodvibes - 2/11/13 at 3:25pm
post #1685 of 5600
So I'm dying here in P Vallarta without tunes...well not really lol

During a run into town for provisions I popped into a R Shack....they had Sony XBA IEMs ....1, 2, 3, 4....$99 to $320....are any of them recommendable...?

If I get a chance later I'll do some research...
post #1686 of 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by toads View Post

So I'm dying here in P Vallarta without tunes...well not really lol

During a run into town for provisions I popped into a R Shack....they had Sony XBA IEMs ....1, 2, 3, 4....$99 to $320....are any of them recommendable...?

If I get a chance later I'll do some research...

XBA3 are pick of the litter, so I hear.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/633755/xba-3-overlooked-the-appreciation-thread
post #1687 of 5600
Thx h20....I'll see if I can find them for a decent price tomorrow when I'm back in PV
post #1688 of 5600
1plus2 vs TG334

clas/mk3 intruder v3, Tera Player, DX100, Colorfly C4


I would say that the 1plus2 sounds special to me. During my AB tests, I used different sources and amps, all from VZ's equips..
I find the 1plus2 a tad more detailed than the tg334, but it depends on the source that I used. Obviously the tg334 sounds warmer.
Bass on the 1p2 has a lot more impact and quantity. I used the stock cable on the tg334, the 000 with it sounds bloated a bit. I would have preferred the 1plus2's bass on the first listen.

Mids, this is where the 1plus2 wowed me. Vocals has more clarity and definition and sounds less forward than the tg334 while both of them are transparent. I prefer the 1p2's again. instruments sound clearer on the 1p2


Highs on the 1p2 again I prefer than the tg334, they have more quantity and airy and presence across the spectrum and extension that makes the highs of tg334 a bit rolled off. Highs sound a bit thin to me, wished it had more weight and impact

Soundstage is very impressive on the 1plus2 while the tg334 is no slouch in this area. There is more resolution on the 1plus2. Instrument separation is way better on the 1plus2. I would say that i really like the u shape sign of the 1p2.


This is where it gets interesting, though with the dap, amps used above, the 1p2 MAY have the edge on the tg334 in terms of technicality. Presentation wise, I prefer the 1plus2 period. I had all the time to listen to them 'til I get tired listening to both. The 1p2 may sound like what I'm really looking for but no matter what I do even changing the ortofon tips to the tg334 stock large tips, though the tg334 tips have greatly reduced the sibilance, it is still painful to me. this is the reason why i tried it with all those sources above, I was hoping that i could find the right one but no matter how I kept changing the sources/amps, i can't get past the sibilance. This is my main gripe with the 1plus2.



The Turning point:  iMod 80gb RBoxed > ALO international

This one really made me decide on which one I think is worth it for me to keep. Though you might already know why.
This setup changed the tg334 vs 1plus2 for me, it gave them new life for me. the 1plus2 has lesser sibilance on this setup, but this doesn't mean I can listen to them with all of my songs already. The Int'l sound transparent and natural and has a huge soundstage, bass is more controlled even out of the box than RSA intruder. I find both 'phones synergetic with them. I still find it sibilant but less painful. Before I could not get past one of my tracks that I can easily listen to the tg334. Now, I can but I cannot listen to my other sibilant songs 2-3 more times.

This is where I get to love and appreciate more the tg334 not because they don't sound sibilant like the 1plus2 but because the setup made them shine for me. I am glad I have found the right setup to AB them extensively.
Let's get to the point, after 2 weeks of AB which would I prefer now?
TG!334

the bass on the 1plus2 is forward, impactful and very tight!
the tg334 w/ stock 001 cables' bass DO NOT sound bloated on this setup. it is controlled punchy, polite but not forward

the mids I would prefer the tg334's. although both of them are transparent, the tg334 don't sound as warm as before. on the 1plus2, it is borderline thin already unlike on other setups especially on the C4

highs - while i would really prefer the 1plus2 highs, i can't seem to find a fault on the tg334's highs on this setup though they are still less extended than the 1plus2

Why do I like them now than 1plus2?
Presentation

As you can see I said that I prefer the 1plus2's presentation. But this setup really changed it for me and exposed both of their presentation. The tg334 isn't as forward sounding on this setup. This may have answered my gripe with the tg334 too. I can hear the details now that I cannot hear before because of how forward it is. I would say that both do sound on par now for me when it comes to detailing and also because the tg334 isn't that warm on this setup which I do find it masks some micro details bcoz of its warmness on other setups.
The 1plus2 still has a larger soundstage but the forward bass and highs fill up the whole soundstage for me, while the tg334 has a lot of spacing too in which I find it more acceptable for my liking. I wish that the bass on the 1plus2 was less forward it is too forward for me. On other setups I easily get fatigued with them especially when listening to Lazarus AD Who I really am. On the imod/int'l setup thankfully it is lesser. Still the highs sound a bit thin to me, the highs on the tg334 has more weight and impact for me. tg334 isn't missing any details but is just a bit rolled off. The tg334 never sound congested and not even a hint of congestion at least in my case.

The 1plus2 sound a bit "a little too perfect"  or "too clear" for me at times. I felt the bass is sometimes really powerful depending on the song. I find the tg334 to sound natural than the presentation and sound of the 1plus2. While the 1plus2 still has the upper hand on the instrument separation which I love, the bass for a lot of times take my attention away from it and on the tg334, the bass is on the level of mids giving a tight, punchy and BA bass sound which I don't find overwhelming

Lastly, the iMod + Int' setup has done a great job for me making me realize how good my tg334s are.. my gripes have been solved on this one though the highs is still left me desiring for a bit more in quantity. The presentation of the tg334 becomes a bit laid back on this setup.

On other setups I have to be honest the 1plus2 is a nightmare to me even with fitear tips. I can easily recommend the tg334 than the 1p2 because of this.




Overall, the 1p2 has a more exciting and fun sound to me. If I were to compare them,
I'd say the 1plus2 is like a picture taken from a high end camera and printed on a high quality printer while the tg334 is like a very very fine and high quality Painting.


Hope this helps.

EDIT: I used the silver/gold cable on the 1plus2 (back read please if u wanna know why)




Special thanks to VZERO for lending, loaning and giving all the time to use all of his stuffs
Edited by soullinker20 - 2/15/13 at 7:09am
post #1689 of 5600
I do charge for that, you know...

And bravo! Well made smily_headphones1.gif
post #1690 of 5600
Thread Starter 

Very nice review soullinker. There are some things we agree on and yet some we don't. bigsmile_face.gif

 

I actually found the 334s bass more forward and invasive. It lingers too long for my tastes and is to the point bloated ( I personally find the 334s to be the funner headphone in terms of its bassy presentation).... I know you said the cable makes a difference as well as the source. While I find the 1Plus2s bass to be very well controlled and it extends very deep. I mean the quantity of its bass is more than the EX1000 bass but not a whole lot more. While the 334 IMO has a lot more bass than the EX1000 (I think even in mid bass). The mids I found to be thicker on the 334 while the 1Plus2 presents it in a more natural and realistic way. The treble on the other hand as you stated is a bit rolled off on the 334s but I detect some treble spikes which makes it slightly fatiguing for me, I can't listen to them at as high of a volume as I'd like, but the bass also comes into play with this. Now in terms of sibilance well I really don't have that issue on the 1Plus2 so I don't know what to say. On tracks where sibilance is naturally in the recording it will be there as the 1Plus2s are revealing of poor sources. But pretty much I just don't have such issues even on the silver cable. Now I don't listen at very high volumes and I'm not sure if that may also be a factor or not? Are you still getting the Studio V 3rd ANV to test it out with? The bass on that unit is as lean as I could tolerate. Probably puts the 1Plus2s bass right on EX1000 quantity, adds more treble extension/airier and the mid are more forward. The Studio V is the main reason why I switched back to the silver cable because I really enjoyed that extra clarity and transparency it brings over the gold cable. Before that I was mainly using the gold cable on my other sources as I like its sound better up to that point :).


Edited by lee730 - 2/15/13 at 3:56pm
post #1691 of 5600
@lee730

on VZ's imod+Alo int'l setup as i said is different.. while the bass of the 1p2 is the best i've heard (similar to th900).. it is forward in nature and too forward for me .. the bass on the tg334 on this setup will never sound bloated but polite like I said.. this happen to be the best and fair setup for both iems for me.. spikes on the tg334 won't even be an issue..

the tg334 sounds more relaxing in comparison to the 1p2's presentation.. it gets my attention to the details while the 334 doesn't.. in the end it's just a matter of preference.. next month i'll be posting tg334 vs 1plus2 vs Miracle ...

thanks for the help lee!
post #1692 of 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by soullinker20 View Post

Overall, the 1p2 has a more exciting and fun sound to me. If I were to compare them,
I'd say the 1plus2 is like a picture taken from a high end camera and printed on a high quality printer while the tg334 is like a very very fine and high quality Painting.

 

I love this analogy :D. Works very well for me.

 

Great review BTW. To me at least this illustrates that the 1Plus2's surgical dissection and perfect presentation definitely appeals to the greater audience but can't capture them all. More importantly though it seems to present that the two IEMs are merely different and tailored for folks with different tastes. As opposed to reading past posts here which lead to the impression that one was superior over the other.

 

All in all, I tend to agree with your sentiments from your review. Great effort, SoulLinker20.

post #1693 of 5600

How important is a portable amp in this whole setup? And how would it function straight out from say, my mobile?

 

I know its somewhat controversial, but after I had a portable, the bulk just threw me off. I'm not sure I want to go down that route at all. 

post #1694 of 5600
Quote:
Originally Posted by cravenz View Post

How important is a portable amp in this whole setup? And how would it function straight out from say, my mobile?

 

I know its somewhat controversial, but after I had a portable, the bulk just threw me off. I'm not sure I want to go down that route at all. 

 

Personally try to deal with just the RWAK100 when "on the go".

post #1695 of 5600
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cravenz View Post

How important is a portable amp in this whole setup? And how would it function straight out from say, my mobile?

 

I know its somewhat controversial, but after I had a portable, the bulk just threw me off. I'm not sure I want to go down that route at all. 


I don't find it necessary at all with my Studio V 3rd ANV. It was posted earlier that the 1Plus2 sounds really good even out of the iphone HO so I'm sure it won't be an issue at all. I'd say if you want to take it to another level then definitely consider the 3rd ANV :). In terms of portability the unit is rather small in comparison to the bricks you'll see some touting :P. Plus up to 55 hours of battery life on FLAC files it's hard to beat :).

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