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Tralucent Audio 1Plus2 IEM Impressions Thread - Page 11

post #151 of 5603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

Is TWFK really the best mid-high driver? I mean, looking at the spec sheet Knowles provide, its frequency response isn't great...


Graphs aren't the "see all know all" as many are lead to believe. It can be a great point of reference but noting more. I say listen with your own ears and make that determination for yourself. The EX1000 measured as garbage yet most don't see it that way and instead see it as the best dynamic universal IEM out there. YMWV. Also take into account the tuning and implementation of the driver. Much more than meets the eye. Don't be fooled by specs on a piece of paper.


Edited by lee730 - 9/11/12 at 9:49pm
post #152 of 5603

The only experience i have with a twfk is full range in the GR01, but i can tell you it sounds waaaay better than the graph shows. I dont sense the 3k and 6k peaks, and i definitely dont hear a rolled off top end like the graph shows. Im hearing extension well beyond 10k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

Is TWFK really the best mid-high driver? I mean, looking at the spec sheet Knowles provide, its frequency response isn't great...

post #153 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post  Is TWFK really the best mid-high driver? I mean, looking at the spec sheet Knowles provide, its frequency response isn't great...

 

Knowles doesn't do measurements specific for audio (unless you're a manufacturer and you request them privately), so you are probably not seeing the relevant information. They might night not be using the IEC711 coupler, and rather a straight up 2cc coupler, and their microphone might not be rated beyond 10k. There are a lot of factors that may cause a graph to be irrelevant to high-end audio.

 

Secondly, there are definite issues with the TWFK; it has a dip between 3.5-4 kHz, which is very audible and probably its biggest flaw. It's very difficult to compensate for this dip. I've heard several TWFK variants, including several where Knowles has an integrated low and high pass applied to the two drivers, and although partially minimized, the problem is still there. Thus, the TWFK driver isn't really the best for an 'accurate' response, but if you want high end extension in a tiny size, there's no other driver that can provide this type of response.

post #154 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Secondly, there are definite issues with the TWFK; it has a dip between 3.5-4 kHz, which is very audible and probably its biggest flaw.

Just curious- how big of a dip? This is the most sensitive area for me. Spikes or plateaus here can be very harsh and echoey to me. When I look at an FR graph, I always look to make sure it's either flat here, compared to the surrounding frequencies or even a small dip. The mg6pro has an elevation or spike here that makes it unlistenable without EQ for me.
post #155 of 5603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post


Just curious- how big of a dip? This is the most sensitive area for me. Spikes or plateaus here can be very harsh and echoey to me. When I look at an FR graph, I always look to make sure it's either flat here, compared to the surrounding frequencies or even a small dip. The mg6pro has an elevation or spike here that makes it unlistenable without EQ for me.


More so do you hear this issue on these IEMs? I don't hear any spikes at all for that matter.

post #156 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


Graphs aren't the "see all know all" as many are lead to believe. It can be a great point of reference but noting more. I say listen with your own ears and make that determination for yourself. The EX1000 measured as garbage yet most don't see it that way and instead see it as the best dynamic universal IEM out there. YMWV. Also take into account the tuning and implementation of the driver. Much more than meets the eye. Don't be fooled by specs on a piece of paper.

Specs on a piece of paper and an accurate and properly done graph are two different things. Proper measurements are nothing to turn your nose up about and are important in understanding what you yourself like and dislike.

Saying the ex1000 measures garbage couldn't be farther from the truth. What should be important to you is understanding what the graph reflects about your dislike of the iem.
post #157 of 5603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post


Specs on a piece of paper and an accurate and properly done graph are two different things. Proper measurements are nothing to turn your nose up about and are important in understanding what you yourself like and dislike.
Saying the ex1000 measures garbage couldn't be farther from the truth. What should be important to you is understanding what the graph reflects about your dislike of the iem.


According to the graphs (regarding the EX1000) those treble spikes are quite apparent in the lower treble regions and if you were to give full merit to those graphs it would say they would be a very sibilant IEM. IMO a sibilant IEM is garbage. I'm not gonna sugar coat it. For me to have kept something like that would have eventually resulted in hearing damage. YMWV. My point is while I agree with what that graph says doesn't mean its gonna always be the case. While a graph can be a great point of reference it isn't the "say all know all" like many read into it. The EX1000 is a great example on this matter.


Edited by lee730 - 9/12/12 at 3:06am
post #158 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Knowles doesn't do measurements specific for audio (unless you're a manufacturer and you request them privately), so you are probably not seeing the relevant information. They might night not be using the IEC711 coupler, and rather a straight up 2cc coupler, and their microphone might not be rated beyond 10k. There are a lot of factors that may cause a graph to be irrelevant to high-end audio.

Secondly, there are definite issues with the TWFK; it has a dip between 3.5-4 kHz, which is very audible and probably its biggest flaw. It's very difficult to compensate for this dip. I've heard several TWFK variants, including several where Knowles has an integrated low and high pass applied to the two drivers, and although partially minimized, the problem is still there. Thus, the TWFK driver isn't really the best for an 'accurate' response, but if you want high end extension in a tiny size, there's no other driver that can provide this type of response.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/f/f1/f162be07_DSC_0305.jpg (CI+TWFK - UM xover) edit: nope, that's CI + ED.
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5983/image00022zk.jpg - that's 2ci + twfk
http://cdn.head-fi.org/4/45/45af5af2_graphCompare.jpeg - 1ci + twfk (also UM xover)


(or any other UM twfk based IEM). Where's this 3.5-4khz dip theory coming from?
(won't quote merlin, since that's 2x twfk biggrin.gif . ok here it is biggrin.gif http://cdn.head-fi.org/c/c3/c3cc5e8c_DSC_0140.jpeg , miracle - also 2 twfk http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/14/14582d27_DSC_0001.jpg . http://cdn.head-fi.org/a/a4/900x900px-LL-a4f5dc8f_SM3x8.jpeg - 3x8 - 4ci + 2 twfk biggrin.gif )

(not sure how smoothed the charts are)
Edited by svyr - 9/12/12 at 4:19am
post #159 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Knowles doesn't do measurements specific for audio (unless you're a manufacturer and you request them privately), so you are probably not seeing the relevant information. They might night not be using the IEC711 coupler, and rather a straight up 2cc coupler, and their microphone might not be rated beyond 10k. There are a lot of factors that may cause a graph to be irrelevant to high-end audio.

the iec711 (or Zwislocki) coupler is not meant for hi-end audio either. That's why many audio companies out there don't bother much when other types of coupler are used. Etymotic & Sonion might stand as good examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr View Post
(not sure how smoothed the charts are)

1/12 octave, in the top right corner, says the graph tongue.gif

post #160 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranhieu View Post

the iec711 (or Zwislocki) coupler is not meant for hi-end audio either. That's why many audio companies out there don't bother much when other types of coupler are used. Etymotic & Sonion might stand as good examples.

 

There really isn't anything really meant for high-end audio, but IEC60711 standards were extended from their simple 100-8k compliances to 100-16k in the revised (but basically identical) IEC60318-4 standard. Could there be more refinements? Sure, but there just isn't anything more 'industry-standard' than your run-of-the-mill occluded ear simulator. Companies set their own standards still for most cases, and that's why it's all the more important that people shouldn't pay too much attention to graphs that aren't a straight up, apples-to-apples comparison. Anyways, getting slightly OT.

post #161 of 5603

Hoping to get a demo so I can get this compared with a Westone ES5. 1p2 might dethrone it. :|

post #162 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

There really isn't anything really meant for high-end audio, but IEC60711 standards were extended from their simple 100-8k compliances to 100-16k in the revised (but basically identical) IEC60318-4 standard. Could there be more refinements? Sure, but there just isn't anything more 'industry-standard' than your run-of-the-mill occluded ear simulator. Companies set their own standards still for most cases, and that's why it's all the more important that people shouldn't pay too much attention to graphs that aren't a straight up, apples-to-apples comparison. Anyways, getting slightly OT.

yah, just wanted to give my input since your previous post might give the false impression to the non-experienced that the 711 is the holy grail if one is after accurate measurements.

 

imo graphs are useful only when you are designing stuff. In line with that, it doesn't really matter if you use a ha3 or 711 to obtain data as long you it's well calibrated and you know your equipments.

post #163 of 5603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

Hoping to get a demo so I can get this compared with a Westone ES5. 1p2 might dethrone it. :|

 

UPDATE: Tralucent Audio 1Plus2 & T1 Tour

 

Hello folks Tralucent Audio is having a demo tour of their products and I am in the process of selecting 12 individuals (including Girls Generation) to demo their products and in return write a review/impressions here on the thread. So far 7 are on board and I'm waiting for the other 5 to reply. Looking forward to more impressions :).

 

Participants:

 

elnero

 

Girls Generation

 

 
 
 
 
 

Edited by lee730 - 9/24/12 at 8:34pm
post #164 of 5603
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

UPDATE: Tralucent Audio 1Plus2 & T1 Tour

 

Hello folks Tralucent Audio is having a demo tour of their products and I am in the process of selecting 10 individuals (including Girls Generation) to demo their products and in return write a review/impressions here on the thread. So far 5 are on board and I'm waiting for the other 5 to reply. Looking forward to more impressions :).

If only I was a much more reputable member :\

post #165 of 5603

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Just curious- how big of a dip? This is the most sensitive area for me. Spikes or plateaus here can be very harsh and echoey to me. When I look at an FR graph, I always look to make sure it's either flat here, compared to the surrounding frequencies or even a small dip. The mg6pro has an elevation or spike here that makes it unlistenable without EQ for me.

 

Well, you liked the K3003, right? So, not enough of a dip, I suppose, though the K3003 uses one of the most expensive TWFK variants I know, which comes with compensation built in.

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