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V-MODA M-100 & VTF-100 Appreciation Thread: Images, Impressions, Reviews. - Page 53

post #781 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them. Please note I own the M-100s (my work cans) and M-80s (love them both) as well as D-770 Pros', Senhheiser HD500's, and few others.

 

http://www.headfonia.com/style-and-power-vmoda-m-100/

 

I sat down with Blutarsky tonight and we listened to my M-100 together (okay, we took turns) and he agreed with me that the M-100 is a fun sounding portable headphone that's a good match with our iPhones and iPads.  Detail was very acceptable, and mids were rich and life-like, while bass is a tad much but not way too much.  

 

With some gear the bass is about 2-3 dB too much, which can be solved with a little EQ or different gear (I didn't hide that fact in my review).  But that didn't keep me from really enjoying these headphones, especially with portable gear.  The EF6 amp is not what the typical M-100 owner will be using to driving them - and it wasn't a good match with my very efficient Grado HF-2 either (although great with HD800, HE-500, HE-6 and LCD-2).

 

There are other headphones that have a similar bass-heavy flavor, like a stock Denon D5000 and Ultrasone Edition 9.  No, these aren't on the same level as phones costing 2-3x as much, and not a giant killer, but I think they are well worth the $310.  They also remind me of being like a closed HD650 but with a bit more bass and a little less detail, yet would appeal to HD-650 lovers who need a portable or closed headphones. They are both are relaxing and non-fatiguing, unlike my HFI-780 that became sibilant and less fun.  And they don't have a "closed headphone" sound like my stock D2000 did.  They are more life-like than my HD25-1 II or SRH-840 or re-cabled and dampened ATH-900, although a little less crisp sounding. 

post #782 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them. Please note I own the M-100s (my work cans) and M-80s (love them both) as well as D-770 Pros', Senhheiser HD500's, and few others.

 

http://www.headfonia.com/style-and-power-vmoda-m-100/

 

I post my earlier response regarding this review:

 

Quote:

The problem with that reviewer which you can easily read between the lines and conclude the reviewer lacks experience with bassier headphones and this is obviously his bassiest headphone while it exists also significantly bassier ones still. He lacks the perception of how a bassy headphone sounds and behaves like and is living in the world that ofc everything can still sound extremely detailed despite having a 8~9dB boost as compared to say 5dB or so. So yea his vision is a bit skewed and probably gives an unfair reflection over his M100, while Tyll has tried several "bassiest" headphones and has a better perception of what to expect out of a bassy headphone. That he also says the bass quality is not even that good while it measures very well (very tight & punchy) further strengthens my point. This sounds like the typical review when you put some1 to review a headphone which isn't happening to like such kind of sound signature and is therefore disappointed as it doesn't meet his personal preferences. It's a little too subjective review IMO where the reader's personal preferences gets too much weight to it. When I write a review I disregard my personal preferences and just try to describe how it sounds like compared to other headphones I've tried (=objective). Subjective is when you for example say that 9dB bass sounds bad because you happen to like 5dB of bass. People should describe the sound, not take that much stand to whether it's good or not, that's the reader's task.

 

Not trying to defend M100, I would stand behind what I wrote above whether it's a question of Beats headphone review or HD800 for example, it's just my objective observations

 

Also if you check the comments they seem to have a personal vendetta against my comment and head-fi in general. Way too subjective review to be called a professional review in my book. I just don't like people that are using their own personal taste as objective truth, not every1 is looking for a flat response.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 11/21/12 at 2:41am
post #783 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

...Also if you check the comments they seem to have a personal vendetta against my comment and head-fi in general. Way too subjective review to be called a professional review in my book. I just don't like people that are using their own personal taste as objective truth, not every1 is looking for a flat response.

 

 

RPGWiZaRD, I believe "Julius" went by the nickname swbf2cheater here.

post #784 of 924

saw these headphones 1 month ago and read most of the reviews about them (and suddenly became head-fi member, lol). Excited to see the price when they will release in Europe (hopefully they will cost around 250 euro). Otherwise Tiesto headphones looks quite impressive and are almost at the same price range...;)

post #785 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

Also if you check the comments they seem to have a personal vendetta against my comment and head-fi in general. Way too subjective review to be called a professional review in my book. I just don't like people that are using their own personal taste as objective truth, not every1 is looking for a flat response.

 

 

 

Really?  That's... quite hilarious, actually!  I guess I'll be giving it a read after all. (I skimmed it when it was originally posted as others had already described he gist of it)

 

Regarding the concept of published reviews on the whole, I consider them all to be "professional opinions." (i.e. a subjective account that one is compensated)  Headphone measurements like those found at Innerfidelity are helpful at adding an objective slant, but even then the process has yet to be standardized and results aren't entirely conclusive.  Sticking with the example, the final conclusion still comes down to Tyll's own ears and, therefore, his opinion.  Fortunately for the reader, he's a heck of a nice fella who wears his preferences on his sleeve making it easy for one to contextualize and compensate for variables.  In Headfonia's case, I'll admit that I rarely visit their site and I don't "know" the reviewer(s).  Not intended to be a knock, but I've always felt that their write ups leave me with more questions than answers and -- more pettily -- I find their ever present spelling/grammar/punctuation niggles irksome.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

RPGWiZaRD, I believe "Julius" went by the nickname swbf2cheater here.

 

Well, that's a heavy dose of context...

 

"Vendetta."  Heh.  popcorn.gif


Edited by Curly21029 - 11/21/12 at 3:15am
post #786 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them. Please note I own the M-100s (my work cans) and M-80s (love them both) as well as D-770 Pros', Senhheiser HD500's, and few others.

 

http://www.headfonia.com/style-and-power-vmoda-m-100/

Theres always going to be negative reviews of a product, making a fuss is just proving their point about the "hype" around these cans (which i believe there definately is)

I havent heard these yet so i cant comment on the review, however ity is worth noting that he won the M100 and usually this would ias the reviewer towards the product.


Edited by astroid - 11/21/12 at 3:50am
post #787 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post

 

 

RPGWiZaRD, I believe "Julius" went by the nickname swbf2cheater here.

I thought so! His writing sounded just like him, and he even went so far as to say the the L1 beat them, just like he said in his now-deleted video review.


Edited by wes008 - 11/21/12 at 5:28am
post #788 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly21029 View Post

Regarding the concept of published reviews on the whole, I consider them all to be "professional opinions." (i.e. a subjective account that one is compensated)  Headphone measurements like those found at Innerfidelity are helpful at adding an objective slant, but even then the process has yet to be standardized and results aren't entirely conclusive.  Sticking with the example, the final conclusion still comes down to Tyll's own ears and, therefore, his opinion.  Fortunately for the reader, he's a heck of a nice fella who wears his preferences on his sleeve making it easy for one to contextualize and compensate for variables.  In Headfonia's case, I'll admit that I rarely visit their site and I don't "know" the reviewer(s).  Not intended to be a knock, but I've always felt that their write ups leave me with more questions than answers and -- more pettily -- I find their ever present spelling/grammar/punctuation niggles irksome.

 

Well let me explain a bit. 

 

In school here in Finland we learnt that there exist objective way of writing as well as subjective. The "right" / professional way to write a book review for example is the objective way which is based on references and comparisions against other books, excluding subjective reflections.

 

Subjective example in case of headphones:

 

- V-Moda M100 has 8~9dB bass boost compared to ~5dB of M80, therefore it's a bad headphone 

That's a subjective reflection because there's nothing in this business that says 8~9dB bass is worse than 5dB, that's a fact. There's cases where having 5dB bass is more useful than 8~9dB as a thumb rule but there's no such thing as 8~9dB would always be worse than having a more closer to "neutral" 5dB boost. A lot of people would enjoy the 8~9dB boost over the 5dB when just listening to his/her music.

 

Objective statement:

 

- V-Moda M100 has a 8~9dB bass boost while M80 has 5dB.

This is a fact (well assuming the figures are accurate). There's no personal reflections involved, it just says what it is.

 

IMO a proper review requires a wide experience of different sounding headphones so you can accurately evaluate where the headphones stand like in different aspects, like soundstage size, separation etc. Bassy headphones for example tend to suffer in terms of separation/transparency versus more basshy headphones, this is the nature of bass emphasized headphones, a physical limit. Therefore I think it's more fair how SIMILARLY bassy headphones fare against each other as you have to remember this hobby is all about priorities / preferences. It doesn't mean that a bassy headphone will be a worse selection for some1 who actually prioritizes having that extra bass quantity over the nicer (in general, there's always exceptions) separation. Therefore I think it's wrong to write headphone reviews with a very subjective reflection because we all have our own taste in how it should sound like which can be very different to the reviewer and it might even. misguide the reader in some cases.

 

If you just write an objective review which just compares/describes where the headphone stand like in different aspects, you avoid this happening.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 11/21/12 at 6:02am
post #789 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

 

Well let me explain a bit. 

 

In school here in Finland we learnt that there exist objective way of writing as well as subjective. The "right" / professional way to write a book review for example is the objective way which is based on references and comparisions against other books, excluding subjective reflections.

 

Subjective example in case of headphones:

 

- V-Moda M100 has 8~9dB bass boost compared to ~5dB of M80, therefore it's a bad headphone 

That's a subjective reflection because there's nothing in this business that says 8~9dB bass is worse than 5dB, that's a fact. There's cases where having 5dB bass is more useful than 8~9dB as a thumb rule but there's no such thing as 8~9dB would always be worse than having a more closer to "neutral" 5dB boost. A lot of people would enjoy the 8~9dB boost over the 5dB when just listening to his/her music.

 

Objective statement:

 

- V-Moda M100 has a 8~9dB bass boost while M80 has 5dB.

This is a fact (well assuming the figures are accurate). There's no personal reflections involved, it just says what it is.

 

IMO a proper review requires a wide experience of different sounding headphones so you can accurately evaluate where the headphones stand like in different aspects, like soundstage size, separation etc. Bassy headphones for example tend to suffer in terms of separation/transparency versus more basshy headphones, this is the nature of bass emphasized headphones, a physical limit. Therefore I think it's more fair how SIMILARLY bassy headphones fare against each other as you have to remember this hobby is all about priorities / preferences. It doesn't mean that a bassy headphone will be a worse selection for some1 who actually prioritizes having that extra bass quantity over the nicer (in general, there's always exceptions) separation. Therefore I think it's wrong to write headphone reviews with a very subjective reflection because we all have our own taste in how it should sound like which can be very different to the reviewer and it might even. misguide the reader in some cases.

 

If you just write an objective review which just compares/describes where the headphone stand like in different aspects, you avoid this happening.

This is one of the reasons I respect reviewers like ljokerl since he actually tends to be more objective like that, or at least tries to be.

post #790 of 924
To be fair he did state that the review was his opinion.
post #791 of 924

I'm now beginning my build quality review, now that I have all the pieces together. I expect to be finished in the next two hours or so.

post #792 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

 

Well let me explain a bit. 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

In school here in Finland we learnt that there exist objective way of writing as well as subjective. The "right" / professional way to write a book review for example is the objective way which is based on references and comparisions against other books, excluding subjective reflections.

 

Subjective example in case of headphones:

 

- V-Moda M100 has 8~9dB bass boost compared to ~5dB of M80, therefore it's a bad headphone 

That's a subjective reflection because there's nothing in this business that says 8~9dB bass is worse than 5dB, that's a fact. There's cases where having 5dB bass is more useful than 8~9dB as a thumb rule but there's no such thing as 8~9dB would always be worse than having a more closer to "neutral" 5dB boost. A lot of people would enjoy the 8~9dB boost over the 5dB when just listening to his/her music.

 

Objective statement:

 

- V-Moda M100 has a 8~9dB bass boost while M80 has 5dB.

This is a fact (well assuming the figures are accurate). There's no personal reflections involved, it just says what it is.

 

IMO a proper review requires a wide experience of different sounding headphones so you can accurately evaluate where the headphones stand like in different aspects, like soundstage size, separation etc. Bassy headphones for example tend to suffer in terms of separation/transparency versus more basshy headphones, this is the nature of bass emphasized headphones, a physical limit. Therefore I think it's more fair how SIMILARLY bassy headphones fare against each other as you have to remember this hobby is all about priorities / preferences. It doesn't mean that a bassy headphone will be a worse selection for some1 who actually prioritizes having that extra bass quantity over the nicer (in general, there's always exceptions) separation. Therefore I think it's wrong to write headphone reviews with a very subjective reflection because we all have our own taste in how it should sound like which can be very different to the reviewer and it might even. misguide the reader in some cases.

 

If you just write an objective review which just compares/describes where the headphone stand like in different aspects, you avoid this happening.

 

 

 

No explanation necessary, but it's appreciated.  I get what you're articulating, but as stated above purely objective information simply doesn't paint a complete picture of the product in the headphone world.  I won't pretend to know the measurement process of loudspeakers as I have little interest in the technology, (I've come to understand that it's at a level of sophistication far beyond that of headphones) but I do pay attention to the advancements in the display technology arena.  Measurements of monitors/televisions are entirely standardized and every facet of its visual performance can be graphed to paint a complete whole.  With headphone reviews, it's still somewhat commonplace for one to state that the product "performs better/worse than measured" in any given attribute.  Heck, I have a KNS 8400 on my head right now and it sounds very different from the measurements that have posted. (my opinion, of course)  Point being, simply stating that there is a 'X'dB emphasis measured at 'Y'kHz isn't sufficiently informative given current resources.  I do, however, agree that using points of comparison (product 'X' has more ABC compared to 'Y') is an excellent approach to analysis.

 

At any rate, my apologies for the off-topic conversation and my concise response. (I'm currently in the thick of a long, busy work day)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astroid View Post

Theres always going to be negative reviews of a product, making a fuss is just proving their point about the "hype" around these cans (which i believe there definately is)

I havent heard these yet so i cant comment on the review, however ity is worth noting that he won the M100 and usually this would ias the reviewer towards the product.

 

Couldn't the same be said for any luxury good?


Edited by Curly21029 - 11/21/12 at 2:30pm
post #793 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisddo View Post

Has anyone see the recent headphonia review of the M-100...it gets utterly destroyed by this reviewer and he even goes as far as to call other reviewers liars for commending them. Please note I own the M-100s (my work cans) and M-80s (love them both) as well as D-770 Pros', Senhheiser HD500's, and few others.

http://www.headfonia.com/style-and-power-vmoda-m-100/

I do love their pictures of m-100 though. In fact, I just called V-moda and changed my order to matte black. They just look so ** sexy in these pictures of that review, much cooler than shadow ones.
I did not feel any disappointment from their reviews. well...the major conclusions that I draw from their articles are pretty similar to Tyll's review. They just choose to use more hostile or more offensive words about Head-fi and m-100 to express their feelings. BUT the conclusion is that: m-100 is a well-build high end Consumer Grade headphone with super bass and sound stage and it's not for everyone especially for those aimed at an analytically headphone. well....that's pretty much what Tyll said and my expectation...I honestly do not need my portable headphone to be analytical or super neutral. I want it to be...well...fistly..portable and then bass-emphasized and balanced in general. I think m-100 could do the job even based on Headfonia's review....
Edited by guyuemuziye - 11/22/12 at 10:28am
post #794 of 924

I think that guy's a guest reviewer, not on the staff. Haven't read it, it's too long :D

post #795 of 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly21029 View Post

 

No explanation necessary, but it's appreciated.  I get what you're articulating, but as stated above purely objective information simply doesn't paint a complete picture of the product in the headphone world.  I won't pretend to know the measurement process of loudspeakers as I have little interest in the technology, (I've come to understand that it's at a level of sophistication far beyond that of headphones) but I do pay attention to the advancements in the display technology arena.  Measurements of monitors/televisions are entirely standardized and every facet of its visual performance can be graphed to paint a complete whole.  With headphone reviews, it's still somewhat commonplace for one to state that the product "performs better/worse than measured" in any given attribute.  Heck, I have a KNS 8400 on my head right now and it sounds very different from the measurements that have posted. (my opinion, of course)  Point being, simply stating that there is a 'X'dB emphasis measured at 'Y'kHz isn't sufficiently informative given current resources.  I do, however, agree that using points of comparison (product 'X' has more ABC compared to 'Y') is an excellent approach to analysis.

 

You didn't quite get my point. It's not only measurements like Tyll does that I count as objective. Subjective analyzement that compares headphones vs others I'd still at least concider at least "semi-objective", it's just how the info is presented which can be either subjective or objective. What's bad in a review is to take his/her own subjective preferences as objective truth which I find this reviewer doing, ie. what he likes is "the truth". For example myself based on testing I seem to prefer a bass boost of about 8~10dB ideally which is more than what this reviewer prefers for example. 

 

If I would write a review with the same perspective I would be bashing a headphone with 4dB bass boost as it's not bassy enough and therefore it sucks! xD When writing a review you should learn to disregard your own personal tastes and not let that reflect the opinion of the headphone. Tyll does this very well, so does jokerl on this site etc. What is relevant how the headphones compares like in different aspects. This particular review was made by some1 who hasn't got experience with bassier headphones so he may not necessary be very familiar with how very bassheavy headphones behave like. For some this bassheavy quantity is preferred, the relevant is how well it compares in other aspects especially against somewhat similar headphones. For example Tyll put it as "the best basshead headphone", ie. it probably do very well for packing such a quantity of bass when that is put aside and you compare it versus other bassy headphones. That is the selling point of this headphone IMO, bassy but still quite/very detailed.

 

But let's draw a stop to this discussion, it belongs to the sound science section and is offtopic for this thread. I certainly have no desire to bring this any further.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 11/22/12 at 5:00am
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