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Creative Sound Blaster new series Z, Zx & ZxR - Page 43

post #631 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post

I highly recommend that you do not install the speaker setup thingy and double check that you have stereo speakers selected from windows audo control panel. Speaker setup thing totally messed up soundstage when I used line out with headphones.

 

Is that an option during setup? You got me curious. With Realtek there's no separate "software speaker config" and they are simply using the Windows control panel settings inside the Realtek software configuration panel. So if I don't have to install that Creative speaker config thing I'd probably be able to get that nicely working soundstage with this card too I reckon.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 5/28/13 at 6:56am
post #632 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

Is that an option during setup? You got me curious. With Realtek there's no separate "software speaker config" and they are simply using the Windows control panel settings. So if I don't have to install that Creative speaker config thing I'd probably be able to get that nicely working soundstage with this card too I reckon.
Yeah, during installation. It made difference at least in my case. I removed the driver completely before reinstalling it without that speaker setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_53 View Post

While I'm still using a Titanium HD I must say that, even thouh audio creation mode does sound better, a stereo source being played through CMSS-3D doesn't sound any different than without the feature.
I'm not talking about the CMSS feature in entertainment mode but the one in gaming mode.
It shouldn't sound any different as the feature itself shouldn't add anything in that particular situation. Should smily_headphones1.gif
I'm not talking about just any stereo source, I'm talking about gaming mode and OpenAL (and Alchemy) games when cmss-3d is enabled in Creative CP. Music is obviously pure stereo without any mixing to mess it up.
Edited by Anarion - 5/28/13 at 6:56am
post #633 of 2224

Oh ok, my mistake. It has been a while since I played the last game that used "real" hardware acceleration (guess that was CoD 2, looks great with 3D and ambient occlusion btw ;) ).

post #634 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post


Yeah, during installation. It made difference at least in my case. I removed the driver completely before reinstalling it without that speaker setup.

 

OK, will try when I get home. :) I hope to be able to get nice results also with the headphone out though because only using that output would make the purchase worth it/make any sense to my ears.

 

TBH, I remember at least one person commenting on Newegg comments that he thought it sounded best without the driver package installed, perhaps that was the same case for that person.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 5/28/13 at 7:02am
post #635 of 2224
as for the fix to it resetting to 5.1.. just reinstalled windows and now it dosent work for me anymore
God damnit creative.
post #636 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post


I highly recommend that you do not install the speaker setup thingy and double check that you have stereo speakers selected from windows audo control panel. Speaker setup thing totally messed up soundstage when I used line out with headphones.


So without the "speaker setup thing" the headphones out is totally ok? No reduced soundstage anymore?

post #637 of 2224

i like the positioning much better in the first  part of the comparison,  am i deaf or what ?  :( 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHKHJmTytQ

post #638 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFGR View Post

i like the positioning much better in the first  part of the comparison,  am i deaf or what ?  :( 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHKHJmTytQ

 

I think in TF2 it is a bit better but in L4D2 SBX wins. Would be nice to know exact settings used though, for example installing the "speaker setup" or whatever it's called during installation results in worse positioning/soundstaging, also it depens how the speakers are set in windows control panel.... too many variables for me to trust any1 but myself when it comes to this kind of testing. :p I'm the kind of guy that don't assume anything to work like it says, I try and verify all possible configs no matter what it says in the instructions etc.

I decided to put up my ZxR card for sale though as I wasn't still 100% convinced on soundstage no matter how I set it up.

post #639 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maker View Post


So without the "speaker setup thing" the headphones out is totally ok? No reduced soundstage anymore?
I guess it shouldn't make difference if you're using headphone out but if you use line out, it makes difference (to my ears). The reason why is the speaker position correction thingy, it will obviously mess up headphone sound image pretty badly. One should note that when connecting it to external source too using line out (not sure if it does the adjustments for digital out too, I assume it does). If you use headphones be sure to set windows to stereo mode too if you want pure stereo.
Edited by Anarion - 6/2/13 at 7:16am
post #640 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

 

I think in TF2 it is a bit better but in L4D2 SBX wins. Would be nice to know exact settings used though, for example installing the "speaker setup" or whatever it's called during installation results in worse positioning/soundstaging, also it depens how the speakers are set in windows control panel.... too many variables for me to trust any1 but myself when it comes to this kind of testing. :p I'm the kind of guy that don't assume anything to work like it says, I try and verify all possible configs no matter what it says in the instructions etc.

I decided to put up my ZxR card for sale though as I wasn't still 100% convinced on soundstage no matter how I set it up.

 

the uploader said that you should NOT use SBX surround, just the game+windows to 5.1 while using the creative panel "headphones" setting 

 

I liked cmss3d better in both games, there's no way i could have played competitevely with that kind of a soundstage in l4d2, we need a better comparison vid, Fegefeuer where are you ? :D 

post #641 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFGR View Post

 

the uploader said that you should NOT use SBX surround, just the game+windows to 5.1 while using the creative panel "headphones" setting 

 

I liked cmss3d better in both games, there's no way i could have played competitevely with that kind of a soundstage in l4d2, we need a better comparison vid, Fegefeuer where are you ? :D 

 

I got the best result using Stereo in windows control panel + headphones + SBX surround set to 91%. At least the surround worked _A LOT_ better if using stereo speakers. Also "enable enhancements" should be checked or else it won't work. If not using the "Surround" setting then 5.1 speakers are better to use but yea gaming wise I got slightly better results with stereo speakers (cpanel) + headphones (creative) + surround set to 91% (very picky about value set, for me 91% clearly sounded the best, the stage seemed best positioned and natural sounding for me then).


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 6/2/13 at 10:06am
post #642 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFGR View Post

i like the positioning much better in the first  part of the comparison,  am i deaf or what ?  :( 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HHKHJmTytQ

 

The TF2 segment definitely sounds more positionally accurate with CMSS-3D, though it's more of a toss-up in the L4D2 segments.

 

SBX is noticeably bassier, though. Nothing I can't correct for with a little bass boost/EQ.

post #643 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

The TF2 segment definitely sounds more positionally accurate with CMSS-3D, though it's more of a toss-up in the L4D2 segments.

 

SBX is noticeably bassier, though. Nothing I can't correct for with a little bass boost/EQ.

look @ the  comments, i think that he just  set games/windows to 5.1 + his  card to "headphones", SBX  surround was disabled on purpose :S

 

edit : just saw your own comment, I've tried the ALchemy tweak myself several times in l4d2, positioning was similar to the usual configuration ( 5.1 game 5.1 windows  headphone cmss3d enabled ) but i had to set the game audio to "headphones" instead of "5.1", sounds were a bit funny too, very muffled and "different"  especially the gun shots, maybe they scrapped legacy surround  support  on  puprpose :S


Edited by SoFGR - 6/3/13 at 1:19am
post #644 of 2224

"SBX Surround off" with TF2 as in the YT video is ok/normal during "legacy surround 1" due to OpenAL/DS3D (automatically), I am not sure if the uploader did everything right during setup. In any other game you would get stereo if you'd disable SBX. Like BF3 for instance. Just testing loudspeaker signals in the windows audio panel (5.1) is enough to notice that of course.

 

SBX is bassier than CMSS-3D where the bass is noticably toned down, not surprising. With the Z(xR) panel you can correct this perfectly for your taste. I wouldn't touch it for Singleplayer, I understand it for competitive gameplay.

 

SBX Is superior to Dolby Headphone. It trumps it in every department plus it gives legacy support which no DHP card does right. If you're on PC then SBX is the way to go. That's not 100% of the truth however:

 

CMSS-3D is old and outdated for modern times, it affects SQ and tonality negatively. "Tin can" is one of the best fitting terms. It gets worse the better your setup is. I am using the HD 800, the more forgiving (and funnier) Signature DJ and the PC360. The effect on the SQ is noticable on every decent headphone. SBX is much better in this regard. It's quite a difference.

 

CMSS-3D however has hardware acceleration that Creative is lazy to do for the Core3D since it only affects older titles. Dissapointing. Nvidia has a very nice PDF regarding GPU accelerated audio. We don't know what the future brings. I suspect with PS4 and Xbox One definitely having hardware audio some change is bound to happen on PC later.

 

Anyway, I suspect the X-Fi cards to be better in older titles but I want to clarify this once and for all, meaning WE should do a roundup of tests. 

 

First we need a games list and a testing/evaluation method, like timedemos or gameplay/missions/levels that are at least decent in reproducing. I love the escape scene in MEdge with the helicopter shooting bullets behind me, over me, left, right and before me but the helicopter gunner is not reliable in his shooting. You need a few runs to have him shoot around you.

 

The tests should include EQ since CMSS-3D equalizes very differently and we should not get fooled by either card/solution. I suggest turning down bass for the SBX and up highs less aggressively. I can't compare EQ with the Titanium HD as I had enough o a creative mess already.

 

We could test the following games:

 

Bioshock 1

Mirror's Edge 

Counterstrike GO

Unreal Tournament 3

Medieval Total War 2 has great sound but SBX is using elevation/macro FX both ALWAS ON, killing the experience. X-Fi with both on was the same horrendous experience.

Battlefield 2 only if I can get a cheap origin download.

 

Nameless? normal_smile%20.gif

post #645 of 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

"SBX Surround off" with TF2 as in the YT video is ok/normal during "legacy surround 1" due to OpenAL/DS3D (automatically), I am not sure if the uploader did everything right during setup. In any other game you would get stereo if you'd disable SBX. Like BF3 for instance. Just testing loudspeaker signals in the windows audio panel (5.1) is enough to notice that of course.

 

SBX is bassier than CMSS-3D where the bass is noticably toned down, not surprising. With the Z(xR) panel you can correct this perfectly for your taste. I wouldn't touch it for Singleplayer, I understand it for competitive gameplay.

 

SBX Is superior to Dolby Headphone. It trumps it in every department plus it gives legacy support which no DHP card does right. If you're on PC then SBX is the way to go. That's not 100% of the truth however:

 

CMSS-3D is old and outdated for modern times, it affects SQ and tonality negatively. "Tin can" is one of the best fitting terms. It gets worse the better your setup is. I am using the HD 800, the more forgiving (and funnier) Signature DJ and the PC360. The effect on the SQ is noticable on every decent headphone. SBX is much better in this regard. It's quite a difference.

 

 

do you mind sharing your exact sbx pro studio settings plz ?  

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