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Creative Sound Blaster new series Z, Zx & ZxR - Page 19

post #271 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post

I personally never liked how CMSS-3D sounded in headphone mode so I always used stereo mode with X-Fi. In stereo mode the sound is much more open and not in your head.

I recorded a sample few days before I got my Zx so that I have something to compare in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GH5DsUJpY8
^^Mirror's Edge, had to use the What U Hear to record it (luckily you can record different source with FRAPS).

 

Oh yea stereo speaker CMSS3D seems to sound much much better indeed. Very nice.

post #272 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post

I personally never liked how CMSS-3D sounded in headphone mode so I always used stereo mode with X-Fi. In stereo mode the sound is much more open and not in your head.

I recorded a sample few days before I got my Zx so that I have something to compare in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GH5DsUJpY8
^^Mirror's Edge, had to use the What U Hear to record it (luckily you can record different source with FRAPS).
Hmmm, I really have to go check out FRAPS.
post #273 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

The only Rapture3D sample I've heard was this one, and it sounds horribly distorted and veiled, though the 3D directional cues are good.

 

Edit: I found a "STALKER: Call of Pripyat" vid by the same guy, sounded better (game reminds me of Metro 2033, especially the music during the Bloodsucker sequence), but comments pointed out an "underwater" like sound effect, and I can hear what they mean.

 

Something does sound a bit off about Rapture3D's Green HRTF quality wise (positioning is spot-on, as it should be), but here's what I want to see: a demonstration video that cycles through ALL of Rapture3D's HRTFs. There's six of them, and the default seems to be the "Amber" one.

 

Remember that when I discuss binaural HRTF mixing tech, positioning comes first and foremost for me, and sound quality, while quite important, still remains secondary since game audio samples are rarely of the highest fidelity to begin with. For me, the priority is being able to shoot someone in the face through a wall just by listening to his footsteps. If there's something that can do it more clearly out there, I'm all for it, but I will not accept compromises in DS3D/OAL positioning and EAX compatibility as a trade-off.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
I personally never liked how CMSS-3D sounded in headphone mode so I always used stereo mode with X-Fi. In stereo mode the sound is much more open and not in your head.

I recorded a sample few days before I got my Zx so that I have something to compare in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GH5DsUJpY8
^^Mirror's Edge, had to use the What U Hear to record it (luckily you can record different source with FRAPS).

 

Sounds alright in that rear cues are readily apparent and there's a slight semblance of height, but I would have liked a comparison with the usual CMSS-3D Headphone configuration in that same video.

 

I still don't hear anything different at all between 2-speaker and headphone modes in the X-Fi control panel, other than that CMSS-3D Virtual obviously sounded much worse to my ears since it's meant for stereo speakers in front of my head. Might have worked better with a Stax Sigma, AKG K1000, or Sony PFR-V1, one of those "earspeaker" type of sets.

 

That doesn't explain your video, though...did you mess with the speaker positioning in the THX setup panel to make their placement 90-degrees off from the head or something?

 

Also note that I never feel like the sound's congested soundstage-wise with CMSS-3D Headphone set the usual way, but that could also be because of my headphones of choice (Stax SR-Lambda) outdoing even the famed Audio-Technica AD700 in sheer soundstage.

post #274 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

 

Something does sound a bit off about Rapture3D's Green HRTF quality wise (positioning is spot-on, as it should be), but here's what I want to see: a demonstration video that cycles through ALL of Rapture3D's HRTFs. There's six of them, and the default seems to be the "Amber" one.

 

TBH, the non Rapture 3D has just as good positioning. UT3 has very good positional audio already when you set speakermode to 5.1 from my experience even with onboard sound and openal isn't even required! I've played this game over 5000hrs and during this time lots of times I've used the sound cues to my advantage. :)

 

I remember I was defending a node in warfare game mode, heard an incoming manta vehicle incoming from our own base-side and shoot an AVRIL-missile before he appeared around the corner so it would instantly kill him when he showed up around the corner. Of course the other player was like "HAX!! Wallhack noob" haha

 

EDIT: Seems like the 5.1 vs stereo speaker config difference is also audible through that particular video. If you aren't a 5.1 speakermode user, at least give it a try for this video. The "generic software" will have good positional cues then too which can't be said when using stereo. The speaker config I usually use is (same options is obviously present through the control panel and speaker config when right clicking on the audio device):

 

 


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/21/13 at 1:30am
post #275 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

Something does sound a bit off about Rapture3D's Green HRTF quality wise (positioning is spot-on, as it should be), but here's what I want to see: a demonstration video that cycles through ALL of Rapture3D's HRTFs. There's six of them, and the default seems to be the "Amber" one.

Remember that when I discuss binaural HRTF mixing tech, positioning comes first and foremost for me, and sound quality, while quite important, still remains secondary since game audio samples are rarely of the highest fidelity to begin with. For me, the priority is being able to shoot someone in the face through a wall just by listening to his footsteps. If there's something that can do it more clearly out there, I'm all for it, but I will not accept compromises in DS3D/OAL positioning and EAX compatibility as a trade-off.


Sounds alright in that rear cues are readily apparent and there's a slight semblance of height, but I would have liked a comparison with the usual CMSS-3D Headphone configuration in that same video.

I still don't hear anything different at all between 2-speaker and headphone modes in the X-Fi control panel, other than that CMSS-3D Virtual obviously sounded much worse to my ears since it's meant for stereo speakers in front of my head. Might have worked better with a Stax Sigma, AKG K1000, or Sony PFR-V1, one of those "earspeaker" type of sets.

That doesn't explain your video, though...did you mess with the speaker positioning in the THX setup panel to make their placement 90-degrees off from the head or something?

Also note that I never feel like the sound's congested soundstage-wise with CMSS-3D Headphone set the usual way, but that could also be because of my headphones of choice (Stax SR-Lambda) outdoing even the famed Audio-Technica AD700 in sheer soundstage.
Probably should have but I've never used that since I didn't like it so I guess that's why it didn't cross my mind... I can do same clips with Zx in stereo mode though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0qL7BX_XcU&hd=1

All SBX Pro Studio stuff disabled, by the way.
Edited by Anarion - 2/21/13 at 2:52pm
post #276 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion View Post


Probably should have but I've never used that since I didn't like it so I guess that's why it didn't cross my mind... I can do same clips with Zx in stereo mode though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0qL7BX_XcU&hd=1

All SBX Pro Studio stuff disabled, by the way.

why no surround sound?

post #277 of 2292

Anarion,

 

can you do Mirror's Edge with CMSS-3D Headphone Macro On/Elevation On and 5.1/7.1 in Windows? 

If you don't have your X-Fi card anymore. Can you do SBX with 5.1/7.1 in Windows?

 

Make sure openal has been set correctly in

 

 

 

Documents\EA Games\Mirror's Edge\TdGame\Config -> TDENGINE.INI

 

 

[ALAudio.ALAudioDevice]
MaxChannels=128
UseEffectsProcessing=True
TimeBetweenHWUpdates=15
MinOggVorbisDurationGame=20
MinOggVorbisDurationEditor=4
DeviceName=SB X-Fi Audio [0001] <-- replace with corresponding device name, check with ALCapsViewer32 and ALCapsViewer64. 
MinOggVorbisDuration=10

Edited by Fegefeuer - 2/21/13 at 3:14pm
post #278 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

Anarion,

can you do Mirror's Edge with CMSS-3D Headphone Macro On/Elevation On and 5.1/7.1 in Windows? 
If you don't have your X-Fi card anymore. Can you do SBX with 5.1/7.1 in Windows?

Make sure openal has been set correctly in



Documents\EA Games\Mirror's Edge\TdGame\Config -> TDENGINE.INI


[ALAudio.ALAudioDevice]
MaxChannels=128
UseEffectsProcessing=True
TimeBetweenHWUpdates=15
MinOggVorbisDurationGame=20
MinOggVorbisDurationEditor=4
DeviceName=SB X-Fi Audio [0001] <-- replace with corresponding device name, check with ALCapsViewer32 and ALCapsViewer64. 
MinOggVorbisDuration=10
I can't test CMSS-3D any more but when I did, it had macro and elevation set to auto (in which case they are on in Mirror's Edge, host OpenAL seems to use on all the tiem and that causes issues in some cases, like Oblivion).

I can do simulated 5.1 with Zx tomorrow though. And yeah, I do know how to set it up properly. I have been manually doing that since Vista and Audigy 2 ZS. By the way, enabling the SBX Pro Studio thingy is not needed for virtual 5.1 in OpenAL games (in fact, I think it makes it sound worse - that's likely not the case in non-OpenAL games though).
Edited by Anarion - 2/21/13 at 4:39pm
post #279 of 2292

Mirror's Edge  (Open AL)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM&hd=1 TruStudio Pro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhwUT4BYMk&hd=1 CMSS-3D

 

Now we need SBX and DHP


Edited by Fegefeuer - 2/21/13 at 11:04pm
post #280 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

Mirror's Edge  (Open AL)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JS2_SCTFLM&hd=1 TruStudio Pro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhwUT4BYMk&hd=1 CMSS-3D

 

Now we need SBX and DHP

 

Unfortunately the CMSS3D has so much better positioning and much larger soundstage there, makes me a bit worried regarding SBX Pro Studio as it would need to be qutie a step-up from TruStudio Pro. CMSS3D seems to sound quite alright as long as you DON'T use "headphone" in creative driver interface.


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 2/22/13 at 1:58am
post #281 of 2292

I recorded this with CMSS-3D Headphone in the interface. We have to find out what SBX really does. THX TSP really sucks in comparison with CMSS-3D Headphone, though we have to consider that this is an Open AL Game, something extremely rare today unfortunately that gives CMSS-3D a rendering advantage (and consider that it still lacks EAX etc.). It reminds everyone what a sorry f....sorry state gaming audio is.

 

If people want to I can record games that don't give an advantage to anyone (aka pure middleware) and just show which solution does the "simple" virtualization better. Until then we need someone doing "my" ME run with SBX on and the same INI settings. If SBX is a renamed THX then we can forget about getting these new cards. :D


Edited by Fegefeuer - 2/22/13 at 2:34am
post #282 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

If people want to I can record games that don't give an advantage to anyone (aka pure middleware) and just show which solution does the "simple" virtualization better. Until then we need someone doing "my" ME run with SBX on and the same INI settings. If SBX is a renamed THX then we can forget about getting these new cards. :D

 

Ahh yea a simple virtualization comparision on audio rendering would be nice. What's a good candidate for such? What about the source engine (L4D, CS etc)?

post #283 of 2292

Source can use DS3D -> Alchemy Wrapper and we have the advantage for CMSS-3D again.

 

how about:

 

Hitman: Absolution

Ghost Recon Future Soldier

Dead Space 3

Crysis 3 (don't have that one)

post #284 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post

Source can use DS3D -> Alchemy Wrapper and we have the advantage for CMSS-3D again.

 

how about:

 

Hitman: Absolution

Ghost Recon Future Soldier

Dead Space 3

Crysis 3 (don't have that one)

 

Yea those could be cool, maybe dead space has suitable effects. Especially great are games with lots of effects like those in unreal tournament, even pickup has their own buzzing noise etc that is good for positional testing.

post #285 of 2292
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

 

Yea those could be cool, maybe dead space has suitable effects. Especially great are games with lots of effects like those in unreal tournament, even pickup has their own buzzing noise etc that is good for positional testing.

 

I find that Battlefield 3 or Bad Company 2 have a really good channel-mixing and overall immersive sound. smile.gif

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