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Creative Sound Blaster new series Z, Zx & ZxR - Page 72

post #1066 of 2551

^ well according to the 1/8th guideline, it probably wouldn't be the best match.

 

I really dont get why Creative was ok with such high output impedences?  Did they assume everyone would use 100+ ohm headphones?  Thats pretty ridiculous.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fegefeuer View Post
 

Pardon my lazyness of not having read everything but does the SBZ not behave like the X-Fis (TiHD in my experience) as in going from lineout -> Amp will still give you every headphone feature if you set to headphones?

 

I'm running mine to my DAC/AMP and do notice differences between speakers vs. headphone during gaming. When using headphones the speaker option is of no real use at all and sounds weird. 

 

 

No what I found was while sbx surround does behave like CMSS3D's different modes, they are not selectable by the user or from which output they operate.

 

ya check my last few posts on why speaker sbx surround differs from headphone sbx.  It works the same as CMSS3D Virtual and Headphone.

post #1067 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJINFERNO806 View Post
 

 

^ well according to the 1/8th guideline, it probably wouldn't be the best match.

 

I really dont get why Creative was ok with such high output impedences?  Did they assume everyone would use 100+ ohm headphones?  Thats pretty ridiculous.  

 

This makes me a sad Panda..... :(

post #1068 of 2551

I have the soundblaster Zx with the external ACM and I am using AD700's with the Zx.

I also own a mixamp 2013 edition. would I get better sound with the mixamp 2013 hooked up to the spdif output then connecting my ad700's directly to the headphone out on the ACM ?

post #1069 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post

Evshrug.. the only way I can 'define distortion' is solely from what I've read here I'm afraid.

Have a FiiO E5.. whatever card I get (SBZ or ZXR) with the X1, I'll check it out and see how it runs out of both the Line/RCA outs and the headphone out too.. just to see. If it works I will get something better as I will have some cash to burn soon. I'd like to get an O2 amp anyway.

Just to be clear... "Define distortion" was more of a rhetorical question, intended to get you thinking about what distortion can be. For example, EQ could technically be considered a distortion of the original signal.

Basically however, benbenkr already did a great job summing up the deal, where you would prefer using a clean-sounding amp if possible with low THD (pretty common in the regularly recommended hi-fi amps). A noisy amp plus a noisy amp would obviously result in an even noisier final signal, but it has seemed to me to be an additive issue rather than multiplicative. I'm only speaking from experience though, I've had no noise increase problems with FiiO E5, E12, my Yamaha receiver, and my hand-made tube amp, I suppose other amps could have problems but I haven't heard any significant ones from my broad-ish testing.



To those lamenting the loss of headphone HRTF through line-outs: are we sure we can't? If not, it may be tied to the added ability to have both headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time, and switch outputs in-software. That was a requested feature lacking from the Ti HD. Even if you truly can't repurpose the outputs, and even if somehow I've been lucky to hear the only amps that have low distortion themselves and therefore work well double-amping, I would still say double amping the headphone-out is a non-issue because you can go anywhere from cheap amp good with low-impedance cans (the FiiO E5) to a more expensive amp for more advanced configurations (powerful portable, receiver, "exotic" tube amp). Easy problem to overcome the 22 Ohm output of the SB-Z.
Edited by Evshrug - 10/17/13 at 3:09pm
post #1070 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by domoaligato View Post

I have the soundblaster Zx with the external ACM and I am using AD700's with the Zx.
I also own a mixamp 2013 edition. would I get better sound with the mixamp 2013 hooked up to the spdif output then connecting my ad700's directly to the headphone out on the ACM ?
Nope.
post #1071 of 2551
^ yup that's a big negative. The z's DAC/amp is superior to the mixamp from my understanding.

The mixamp apparently also has background hiss from reports.
post #1072 of 2551
Very obvious hiss. Measure DAT S:R...
post #1073 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Just to be clear... "Define distortion" was more of a rhetorical question, intended to get you thinking about what distortion can be. For example, EQ could technically be considered a distortion of the original signal.

Basically however, benbenkr already did a great job summing up the deal, where you would prefer using a clean-sounding amp if possible with low THD (pretty common in the regularly recommended hi-fi amps). A noisy amp plus a noisy amp would obviously result in an even noisier final signal, but it has seemed to me to be an additive issue rather than multiplicative. I'm only speaking from experience though, I've had no noise increase problems with FiiO E5, E12, my Yamaha receiver, and my hand-made tube amp, I suppose other amps could have problems but I haven't heard any significant ones from my broad-ish testing.


To those lamenting the loss of headphone HRTF through line-outs: are we sure we can't? If not, it may be tied to the added ability to have both headphones and speakers plugged in at the same time, and switch outputs in-software. That was a requested feature lacking from the Ti HD. Even if you truly can't repurpose the outputs, and even if somehow I've been lucky to hear the only amps that have low distortion themselves and therefore work well double-amping, I would still say double amping the headphone-out is a non-issue because you can go anywhere from cheap amp good with low-impedance cans (the FiiO E5) to a more expensive amp for more advanced configurations (powerful portable, receiver, "exotic" tube amp). Easy problem to overcome the 22 Ohm output of the SB-Z.

 

 

Well there isn't any toggle or option in the control panel to switch to a different hrtf method.  And with everything being streamlined, there really is nowhere to look for extra features lol.

 

I posted my experience and what i heard however you guys are can always do your own listening tests and see what you think.  

IF(I stress IF because new drivers are closed source apparently) custom drivers ever come out for the Z series, I guarantee the option will be available, its jus software really.

 

I wonder if anyone has ever hooked up an Asgard2 or Valhalla to the Z/ZXR's headphone out.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

Very obvious hiss. Measure DAT S:R...
 
 
DAT there sound quality? lol

Edited by DJINFERNO806 - 10/17/13 at 3:40pm
post #1074 of 2551

@Evshrug - Good point on the loss of headphone HRTF through line-outs. As far as SPDIF output goes....

 

I understand that with the SBZ line you were given the option to install the "speaker setup package" along with all the rest. If people don't have speakers, this is something they'd be inclined to not select:

 

 

Console (Click to show)

 

 

Speaker configuration for 5.1, 2.1. 2ch and headphones. Does this come with the SBZ? Would it sort it?


Edited by SaLX - 10/17/13 at 8:19pm
post #1075 of 2551

Re: Creative Sound Blaster new s

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post

Basically (theory crafting):

 

1. Any headphone below 50-70 Ohms using the headphone out on the SBZ will run into problems (though not necessarily on the ZxR). The AD700 (the gamers cheap top headphone for positional audio) is 32 Ohms. Not good. Thing is I've read posts where people have been happy with the SBZ/AD700 ????

 

2. Using the RCA's/ Line out to an external amp in Speaker Mode with a very low output impedance headphone amp would alleviate the problem (for stereo anyway and this'd be perfect). Caveat being: it destroys any virtualised 3D audio for gaming and maybe movies if you want to use SBZ Pro using stereo headphones because you have to select Stereo Speakers and mimic headphones badly. This is also my question for SPDIF out.. can you select either Speaker and Headphone output or just Speakers to avoid this crap?

 

3. All that's left is double bloody amping the headphone out. Lob a very low gain amp on it (I've read that people have done it on the SBZ with no distortion, ie the Magni or 1x gain 02. Even a dirt cheap FiiO E5 could do it maybe??). That means you get an amp with 1 Ohm or less impedance so low impedance cans will work without distortion. Caveat is - it may distort the SQ because of double bloody amping.

 

Groan................ Anyway.. the SBZ plus an $100-140 amp means I might as well get a ZxR, or a SBZ OEM> Spdif > DAC/AMP (see the end of question 2). The ZxR/STX both seem to power low impedance cans well anyway, especially the Fidelio X1 which I want, even though there's a slight hiss with nothing playing at high volumes. Just worried about the above poster who's getting **** audio through a supposedly decent (and presumably common) setup.


I guess this is what bothered me. Does this mean I should ditch my new ad700's? frown.gif

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
post #1076 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post

@Evshrug - Good point on the loss of headphone HRTF through line-outs.

I understand that with the SBZ line you were given the option to install the "speaker setup package" along with all the rest. If people don't have speakers, this is something they'd be inclined to not select:

Console (Click to show)



Speaker configuration for 5.1, 2.1. 2ch and headphones. Does this come with the SBZ? Would it sort it?

From my understanding the speaker config is for adjusting distances and positions for the line outs. Most guys stopped installing it because it would mess up sound stage.
post #1077 of 2551

@domoa and watsaname ... I've done a quick google (Sound Blaster Z AD700) and plenty of people are using them without any complaints. The old X-Fi's and Xonars (I think) all had the same output impedance of 20ish or more. No way would that headphone ever have got so popular if it didn't plain work sticking into your standard gamer's soundcard.


Edited by SaLX - 10/17/13 at 8:17pm
post #1078 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post
 

@domoa and watsaname ... I've done a quick google (Sound Blaster Z AD700) and plenty of people are using them without any complaints. The old X-Fi's and Xonars (I think) all had the same output impedance of 20ish. No way would that headphone ever have got so popular if it didn't plain work sticking into your standard gamer's soundcard.

Thanks! 

Basically I came to this thread on the endless search about scout mode. I have read in a few places that better results can be achieved adjusting the software eq.

I was curious what your opinions are on the eq and how to best adjust it for CS:GO 

post #1079 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by domoaligato View Post

I guess this is what bothered me. Does this mean I should ditch my new ad700's? frown.gif

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
I wouldn't if I was you. Just add a FiiO E5 or E11 between the headphones and sound card. Feel free to report that my guess on the issue was wrong, and really the SBX processing doesn't work for you.

If you do decide to return your new Ad700 (which would be a shame), a more expensive option offering what you're looking for could be Sony's MA900. It's also 32 ohms and pretty sensitive (easy to drive), but it has an impedance compensator built-in, and also amazing soundstage with surround processing. It costs more though.... #1suggestion is just buy a FiiO or something.
post #1080 of 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post
 

@domoa and watsaname ... I've done a quick google (Sound Blaster Z AD700) and plenty of people are using them without any complaints. The old X-Fi's and Xonars (I think) all had the same output impedance of 20ish or more. No way would that headphone ever have got so popular if it didn't plain work sticking into your standard gamer's soundcard.

Well it is a very personal problem, some people probably never heard the 'phones with proper output impedance and just find what they are listening to as normal. I have experience with more then just the Sound Blaster Z, not that any of it is hard-core audiophiles stuff, but I know there is definitely something wrong with the sound of the ad700s when using the headphone out on the back of the Z card.

 

I am currently using the front panel connectors and it sound fine now, none of the head-drilling voices. Also I don't get any feedback from the electronics from within the case, so that is cool. Whether or not it is still using the good soundcard dac is up to debate though. More testing needs to be done, but I can't exactly do a/b testing without some extra amp to use. 

 

To get them to allow "Headphone-Mode" from the line out maybe we should start flooding their inboxes with requests or a petition or something. Depending on how they coded everything, it would not seem too hard for them to have a "Headphone - Line Out" tab in the drop down for speakers.


Edited by watsaname - 10/17/13 at 9:50pm
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