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Creative Sound Blaster new series Z, Zx & ZxR - Page 68

post #1006 of 3296
It sad to say but I feel that most mainstream review sites don't known good audio if it bit them in the arse. Not much analytical review of the sound quality itself in comparison to other top end sound cards. That's always helpful.

I just don't think many review sites find sound card review and comparisons important anymore. Unfortunate.

I was thinking of writing a review of the zxr but to be honest I'm still a noob in audiophile territory and I don't think id do the site justice since I don't have those "golden ears" lol. I could certainly review the hell out of everything else on the card. I also don't have an endless supply of headphones either to do multiple tests.
post #1007 of 3296

How do these new cards work with Alchemy/older DirectSound games? Can you use Alchemy + SBX Surround to get >7 channel positional audio with older DirectSound games like with CMSS-3D? 


Edited by ShrikeT - 10/10/13 at 2:46pm
post #1008 of 3296
I'm assuming you mean directsound3d.

Ds3d gives spatial audio coordinates that are then turned into 3d audio 2 channel mix. When using alchemy to transcode this into an openal stream, SBX surround is turned off.

But you will still get 3D surround as it was intended.
post #1009 of 3296

Yeah, DirectSound3D. So wait, what you're saying is that even with my current X-fi card, it's unnecessary to turn on CMSS-3D to get headphone (binaural) surround sound when using Alchemy with a DirectSound3D game? 

post #1010 of 3296
Ya see this is something I've actually been wondering. I know with my x-fi I always used cmss3d for directsound3d and openal games.

But with my zxr obviously I don't have cmss3d but still get 3d sound. It's actually obvious its working when I play STALKER and Jedi Outcast and Chaos Theory.

The only thing I can think of is the z series grabs the coordinates and turns them into 7.1 signals at which point sbx is automatically turned on and so the slider turns off so as not to mess with the mix and sound stage.

Perplexing right?

Funny lol this question has never come up this whole time...
post #1011 of 3296
Haha yeah, it's definitely typical of Creative products though. Thanks a lot for the info. At the very least it sounds I won't lose much going from am X-Fi to Z series card, which was my main concern.
post #1012 of 3296
OK so an update. I scoured some info on cmss3d headphone and found some interesting points.

So if you have a 5.1 setup, cmss3d does not create a binaural hrtf signal from dsd3d or openal sources. Instead ds3d or openal will just send 7.1 signal(derived from the 3d coordinates) to the card provided it is a supported piece of hardware(creative branded).

This is different from cmss3d using those coordinates and building a 3d binaural signal directly into 2 channels.

So I guess our z cards just use those surround speaker streams and downmix to hrtf. But doesn't allow you to use sbx to adjust the slider. Downside is no height cues apparently.

Cmss3d, no downmixing necessary, 3d cues right to stereo signal.

Makes sense to me smily_headphones1.gif.

Even still, this method blasts traditional premixed 5.1 out of the water. Play penumbra with the z series and wow it sounds so good, panning is so smooth in transition and scarily accurate.
Edited by DJINFERNO806 - 10/10/13 at 3:25pm
post #1013 of 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJINFERNO806 View Post

Even still, this method blasts traditional premixed 5.1 out of the water. Play penumbra with the z series and wow it sounds so good, panning is so smooth in transition and scarily accurate.

 

Have you tweaked your settings any from what you normally run for that?

post #1014 of 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJINFERNO806 View Post

It sad to say but I feel that most mainstream review sites don't known good audio if it bit them in the arse. Not much analytical review of the sound quality itself in comparison to other top end sound cards. That's always helpful.

I just don't think many review sites find sound card review and comparisons important anymore. Unfortunate.

I was thinking of writing a review of the ZxR but to be honest I'm still a noob in audiophile territory and I don't think id do the site justice since I don't have those "golden ears" lol. I could certainly review the hell out of everything else on the card. I also don't have an endless supply of headphones either to do multiple tests.

Er.. I think you could easily do it DJI. Yes, you are qualified to speak. Without you knowing it, you have written more qualified answers with regard to the ZxR than anybody else that I've ever read, anywhere.

 

Sorry, but I think it's important: The new SBZ cards offer probably/arguably the best surround sound out there (for games), somewhat eclipsing Dolby Headphone on the STX. Creative's flagship model the ZxR (practically as good as the Asus Xonar Essence STX) is in need of validation from the gaming community (and music lovers as well). Pity it's got an addon card (most of us don't need) and a ACM thing (50/50 it won't work).


Edited by SaLX - 10/21/13 at 2:13pm
post #1015 of 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJINFERNO806 View Post

Do you usually use it straight recon3d with no amp?

How they perform?

Dang, sorry, just saw this. You may have to click on your quote to see the context.

I usually plugged my Q701 into my tube amp, but since I got the K712 I've not been enjoying the installed tube much (microphonics cause a ringing sound which might never completely fade much just past perceptible, plus it doesn't enhance the soundstage, both attributes which were addressed with the previous tube I had in which made me love my amp in the first place), so I've probably gotten about 50/50 time unamped and with the tube amp.

There is WAAAAAY more volume (and gain?) available when plugged into the PC than the Xbox, which I don't really understand. I have to turn windows down to 20%, but with the Xbox I'm just a few steps down from the max setting. Regardless, the K712 performs well either way, with good spacial cues, detail, separation, and comfortable volume (and wearing comfort!). The AKGs still scale with good amping, but the K712 doesn't sound as harsh as the Q701 when not bi-amped so it's easier to live with, and it seems less picky about amping in general. Unfortunately for some, I really enjoyed the AKG K712 + FiiO E12 amp combo.
post #1016 of 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipshrike View Post
 

 

Have you tweaked your settings any from what you normally run for that?

No apart from SBX surround, i dont use any other form of enhancements or settings. 

 

So SBX surround gets turned off and the rest is stock.  Windows at 5.1 ofcourse lol.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaLX View Post
 

Er.. I think you could easily do it DJI. Yes, you are qualified to speak. Without you knowing it, you have written more qualified answers with regard to the ZxR than anybody else that I've ever read, anywhere.


Perhaps draught some thing up and run it by to stv014 or Purple or nameless or benbenkr etc to see what they think if you're not too sure?


Sorry, but I think it's important: The new SBZ cards offer probably/arguably the best surround sound out there (for games), somewhat eclipsing Dolby Headphone on the STX. Creative's flagship model the ZxR (practically as good as the Asus Xonar Essence STX) is in need of validation from the gaming community. Pity it's got an addon card (most of us don't need) and a ACM thing (50/50 won't work).

 

I just have to play around more with the daughter board first and maybe I will begin to write something up. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post


Dang, sorry, just saw this. You may have to click on your quote to see the context.

I usually plugged my Q701 into my tube amp, but since I got the K712 I've not been enjoying the installed tube much (microphonics cause a ringing sound which might never completely fade much just past perceptible, plus it doesn't enhance the soundstage, both attributes which were addressed with the previous tube I had in which made me love my amp in the first place), so I've probably gotten about 50/50 time unamped and with the tube amp.

There is WAAAAAY more volume (and gain?) available when plugged into the PC than the Xbox, which I don't really understand. I have to turn windows down to 20%, but with the Xbox I'm just a few steps down from the max setting. Regardless, the K712 performs well either way, with good spacial cues, detail, separation, and comfortable volume (and wearing comfort!). The AKGs still scale with good amping, but the K712 doesn't sound as harsh as the Q701 when not bi-amped so it's easier to live with, and it seems less picky about amping in general. Unfortunately for some, I really enjoyed the AKG K712 + FiiO E12 amp combo.

 

So it seems pretty useable without double amping eh?  At least for your cans.  Hows the clarity in the sound, is the noise floor as bad as some say?(on its own)

post #1017 of 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJINFERNO806 View Post

OK so an update. I scoured some info on cmss3d headphone and found some interesting points.

So if you have a 5.1 setup, cmss3d does not create a binaural hrtf signal from dsd3d or openal sources. Instead ds3d or openal will just send 7.1 signal(derived from the 3d coordinates) to the card provided it is a supported piece of hardware(creative branded).

This is different from cmss3d using those coordinates and building a 3d binaural signal directly into 2 channels.

So I guess our z cards just use those surround speaker streams and downmix to hrtf. But doesn't allow you to use sbx to adjust the slider. Downside is no height cues apparently.

Cmss3d, no downmixing necessary, 3d cues right to stereo signal.

Makes sense to me smily_headphones1.gif.

Even still, this method blasts traditional premixed 5.1 out of the water. Play penumbra with the z series and wow it sounds so good, panning is so smooth in transition and scarily accurate.
I'm almost certain that the OpenAL implementation and the binaural processing is exactly the same as with previous software Creative only cards. This time without any restrictions (i.e. EAX5 and 128 voices). It's a bit misleading that Creative called that CMSS-3D and the 5.1/7.1 to 2.0 conversion CMSS-3D too when they aren't really the same thing.
post #1018 of 3296
Well there are 3 types of cmss3d. Headphone is the hrtf one. The other 2 are virtual and surround I believe.

But one thing I don't get is why would you need cmss3d for openal then if its mixing it in hrtf on its own. Doesn't make sense to me. That why I went looking and found the above info from the creative forums. That's the only explanation I can think of.
Edited by DJINFERNO806 - 10/12/13 at 4:33pm
post #1019 of 3296

my emu 1616m broken, will this be a good replacement ?

post #1020 of 3296
Depends what you want a soundcard for?
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